2006.01.01 'Failure' of the plan that this logos chose

[Monica]

I think this entire thread could use a big dose of humility. Humility just means we acknowledge that ours is one of many possible viewpoints, and not necessarily the single 'right' answer. It also leaves room to learn something from someone else. It does not necessarily mean accepting an opinion we disagree with, or compromising our own opinions.

that is different and irrelevant though. respecting someone else's opinion and having to concede the thing someone else wants you to concede, despite being fundamentally in contrast with your own views and understanding, are two different things.

Agreed! That is precisely the point I was trying to make!

after 6th, there is no 'can i' or 'can i not', you just 'do' things. you may not be able to move a mountain by thought, however, there should be no relevance of this to your self-worth, and your self worth should not be lost when thinking or facing anything, because that means loss of 6th ray activity, henceforth, the very important connection to infinity.

after 6h, you don the 'we' understanding and concept. there is no 'outside' god, ie, there is no 'god', or 'intelligent infinity'. you think and act as 'we', an equal member of an infinite sea.

therefore, acceptance and praise of an outside god, empowering of an outside god, the understanding of self as separate from infinity, are all detrimental to manifestation and progress.

there is neither the need for humility, nor the need for arrogance past that point.

That may be true. However, this forum exists in 3D and there is an abundance of arrogance flying around this planet. A little humility in 3D is needed to balance the arrogance in 3D.

What is relevant to the discussion, from an intellectual standpoint, in 6D is very interesting to discuss. But the appeal for humility applied not to discussion, but to application...here in 3D.

Admittedly, I have not read all of the posts in this thread. But my understanding was that the discussion was about a perceived failure of the plan designed by this Logos, not the One Infinite Creator. Please forgive me if I have missed some pertinent posts in which the discussion turned to a perceived failure of the One Infinite Creator.

thats another issue, and correct indeed. it was about the plan of this logos. but, two people first identified this logos with infinity, then proceeded to defend its infallibility.

Aha! :idea: That does clarify a lot for me. So, you felt compelled to elaborate your point, that the logos is not infallible?

I actually agree with you wholeheartedly on that point. In fact, I have expressed this opinion on another thread, in which another member lamented the need for suffering in order to learn/evolve. I agreed on that point as well and stated that whenever I evolve to the point of participating in the design of a 3D world, I will drastically reduce the capacity for suffering.

At least, that is my intention, given my current 'limited' understanding!

I have also wondered if perhaps the reason for a flaw in the design is actually part of a greater design. I invite you to consider this: What if Wanderers are currently enrolled in a course of study that includes the design of 3D realities? Perhaps we are meant to learn from these flaws. Maybe getting indignant is a part of the process, so that we might improve upon these designs when it's our turn.

Just speculation...

however it is also true on the highest level. (or maybe widest, i should say). the infinite intelligence is also not fallible. to be infallible, an entity needs to be infinity itself. however when infinity, there is no action, or reaction, nothing towards anything. infinity doesnt even exist, or it is nonexistent. it is a non factor.

therefore, intelligent infinity, the infinity which gained consciousness by self awareness, is an entity, and therefore, cant be infallible.

Hmmm...interesting idea. I think I understand what you are saying. Thus, infallibility is without distortion?

granted, the margin of error may be so narrow by our standards that it could be understood as infallibility, however, since each node of logos perceives itself as giving free will to its sub logoi (as Ra says so), the margin for error, the possibility to make mistakes should increase with each and every node that the logoi branch out.

I have a programmer's background, so I'm envisioning a binary tree here.

therefore, it is possible that our central sun of the universe, may make mistakes, and experiments can fail. actually, that is why it is called an experiment in the first place, as Ra iterates countless times while talking about various logoi and their plans.

I wouldn't call it a failure, necessarily. Perhaps it is simply less than optimal. It would depend upon whatever the definition of success is. Success could be dependent upon a time factor. ie. is it a failure if a certain % of souls aren't harvestable by the end of the cycle? etc. How are success/failure defined? (If this was defined in a previous post, you don't have to repeat it here, but directing me to that post would be appreciated.)

HOWEVER,

if, you look at the experiment from the 'discovering the nature of existence' part, the plan doesnt become a failure - because, the intent of th experiment then, should have been discovering of the limit of the free will. and when a particular experiment of giving free will repeatedly fails at one point (like the failure in this particular logos), then the whole universe (or our locale) will realize that, in our locale (each locale must have different characteristics), or in the conditions of our locale, giving this X amount of free will with Y amount of veil is the limit.

therefore, it makes the experiment a success by failure. it was intended to fail, with that regard.

Brilliant analysis!

however, trying to defend viability of the failure point, by just attributing 'greatness' to a creator which doesnt need any attribution, would be just irrational.

Or, it may be that your particular ideas had not been considered before. I certainly had not thought of these ideas before.

You raise a valid point. It is certainly possible that some members, maybe even all who have been involved in this thread, have had their buttons pushed. I saw that happen recently on another thread (with different participants). I agree with you that this is a very volatile topic, and volatile topics/radical ideas tend to push buttons. This is a very subconscious thing.

unfortunately so. even the open minded people have a lot of residual, subconscious conditioning from the thousands of years of conditioning and brainwashing particular hierarchical, control oriented religions and philosophies have injected into the culture.

i have first hand experience with this, being from a place which still has to battle for even the modest amount of open mindedness, leave aside the fact that i had to overcome these myself during my own journey of learning.

It is an ongoing process for all of us. Just when we think we have cleared the issue completely, another layer appears...like the layers of an onion. We continue to mirror one another. If our buttons are pushed, then there is something in the other-self that is in us, that is being brought to our attention.

I'm sorry that you perceived rudeness and aggression on our forum. That's disconcerting. We try to maintain a loving and respectful tone here.

i didnt. i said that, normally such a discussion would proceed very rudely and aggressively in other places, and due to the nature of forum and the participants, it maintained its civility at a certain level.

Oh, then I am relieved to hear that I initially misunderstood!

on another sidenote, topics should not be locked because some participants become aggressive, or insulting. that way, 2 person can get a thread locked even though 30 people are participating in it. this method is used by many trolls in many forums, and i have seen these myself in the forums i have ran myself.

Agreed. That's why this thread hasn't been locked. There is value in this discussion. However, respect is required on this forum, so I was quite serious when I said that further discord would not be tolerated, even if it means locking the thread. But I am optimistic that this won't be necessary. I have faith in our members' capacity to facilitate peaceful resolution.

this may not have happened in this occasion, but as the forum stays up it is inevitable that such people find their way here, and unfortunately there are many people who wont resonate with calls to civility and love or respect.

Perhaps. But so far, calls for civility and love/respect have served us well!

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in short - each entity will give the vibrations of its own density or the density it is channeling in. trying to seek love in all of these, is wrong, since love will be included next to ALL the other feelings and faculties up to that level.

I am seeking an expression of love on this thread because it seemed to be missing.