10-28-2016, 09:33 AM
I wasn't going to respond to this thread anymore, but having rolled in the mud of it already, I feel some sense of stewardship over some of the distortions I see rising up again and again and again. You might say I'm still karmically entangled with it.
[As an amusing aside, I've often thought of Ra's interaction with the Egyptians as having been somewhat analogous to an interaction on an internet forum (though obviously, a far more intense and significant event) in the sense that they showed up on the Egyptians "thread", shared some wisdom, departed, came back 10 pages later only to find significant distortions ongoing, which they similarly felt a need to make an attempt to undistort before they could un-entangle themselves from it. Anyway, the thought of this "cosmic historical internet forum" and Ra's participation as such made me chuckle, so I thought I would share the thought.]
@Austin
Your post was eloquent, and well worded, and while I appreciate the input to the thread, I feel you have grossly misrepresented and misinterpreted some of the perspectives shared by some members here, and I would like to offer some clarifications in regard to those perspectives. I have no problem with somebody disagreeing with a concept, I just like people to know what they are disagreeing with when they do it. There have certainly been instances in this thread where nuanced concepts could have been more carefully worded, especially due to the fact that people on this forum, and the world in general in the last couple of years it seems, are easily outraged, triggered, and otherwise emotionally set off by even the most seemingly innocuous language (though what is innocuous to one person, is not innocuous to another which seems to be a lesson many are learning as of late).
It sort of sounds like you are saying, "I can't understand how my consciousness plays a role in my reality, so I'm going to live my life as if it were not true." That is perfectly fine if that is the sort of attitude you want to adopt, but I find it incredibly dis-empowering and disheartening to be honest. Also, I can't of myself live that idea authentically because it just doesn't agree with what I've come to personally understand as truth. You say the attraction cannot be distinguished or recognized -- that the dynamics of how this happens can't be understood, but there are many on this forum that would disagree, emphatically, myself included. While, it is true you cannot *physically* quantify or measure the force of the law of attraction in a Newtonian and materialistic sense, I would argue that there is not one iota of anyone's experience that doesn't testify to the reality of this fundamental metaphysical truth. Speaking of myself, I can very clearly see and understand the effect my focus plays in generating my experience. At this point, it has become so tangibly obvious to me, I can't simply pretend it isn't there.
It's also a bit like pretending gravity doesn't exist (aside from the fact that it is physically measurable). You can pretend all you want, but its still gonna pull you to the ground. Not understanding the physics of it, or the metaphysics of it, is not sound reasoning for abandoning the attempt to understand it. Also, nobody is saying it is simple.
To kind of echo what Minyatur already expressed: this is not what anyone is advocating. Neither myself, nor Minyatur, as far as I'm aware is suggesting you go up to somebody who was just assaulted and say, "Hey, good job jacka*s! Way to get yourself raped!" That would be an extremely silly, uncompassionate, and counter-intuitive thing to do. You have to understand, we are addressing a forum of people who are presumably searching for deeper spiritual explanations for their reality and experience, and incidentally, a big part of participating in that deeper spiritual exploration is going beyond the bare bones acceptance that you are part of the creator, and *actually* trying to SEE and understand how the metaphysics of that play out on a deep and fundamental level of consciousness. To go beyond the casual background understanding that we are all one, and see and understand HOW we ARE the creator. We are the creator asleep, and this is about waking up that portion of ourselves. This is not about ascribing blame, it is about ascribing power, and the responsible use of such. People mistakenly confuse them as the same thing. Our emphasis is not on blame, it is on empowerment. The focus on blame is a lower vibrational preoccupation -- a human weapon.
So this isn't something we are going to offer any random person on the street with no understanding of even the most basic metaphysical precepts. Those people require a much different and more finessed approach, including the same understandings, but applied in a more general way.
And in regard to 'randomness': yes, random things do happen, but they only occur due to our unconsciousness of our consciousness. To the extent that we aren't aware of being the one infinite creator (which in 3rd density is significant), there will be random events. But I don't believe there are random events for the creator, because it is too conscious for that. Randomness extends from our unconsciousness, not consciousness.
You have to understand, there are some seriously gross oversimplifications being applied here. We aren't suggesting someone can just "stop thinking about something" just like that. Our minds are not binary light switches that are instantly directable at will, and we UNDERSTAND that. We could look at these traumatic experiences from a more materialist lens, and the process of healing would be essentially the same, outwardly speaking. All that healing is is the process whereby we learn to see the good in the seemingly bad things that happened to us. And don't you see that is exactly what we are trying to communicate? It is a gradual turning of the attention from the negativity of the experience to the positive benefits of the experience -- the wisdom's gained, and the lessons learned, and the new desires inspired by that catalyst, negative though it may have been. It is no different from the normal process of healing that is applied. We are just offering a deeper explanation of WHY it is healing, WHY it works, and WHY it sometimes doesn't. There are subtle nuances to these shifts in attention, and so if you were overly triggered by the oversimplified description of "not to dwell on negativity" let me offer this clarification of what we mean by that. It is a *gradual* turning of attention from the pain to the wholeness. Again, we understand that the mind is not a light switch, and that we, at the 3rd density level of existence, do not have very good control of our minds to begin with.
There are times when people get stuck focusing on the "glass is half empty". We are just pointing out the detriment of that, and how that perspective just results in a more and more empty glass until it is ALL GONE. Much of these concepts we've attempted to relate were not worded as well as they could or should have been, much to the detriment and arguing of this thread. But alas, we are human. Forgive us for not being good communicators for a subject so touchy for so many people.
This was already addressed earlier in the thread: you are looking at these movements through the lens of your belief system, just as I am. Your belief system says that focusing on problems fixes the problems, and so that is what you see, naturally. When I look that these movements, both the successes and the failures, what I see is an example in history where negative experiences were had by a group of individuals which served to *inspire* a new desire, a new image, which was then focused on, to the exclusion of the focus on limitation, and resulted in the energization of the actions that led to the desired realized outcome the movement was reaching for. And in the cases where they failed, it was due to the misprision with which will was applied to the resistance being experienced.
Essentially, the fact is this: if evidence can be interpreted in two precisely opposite ways, then it simply isn't good evidence.
So just to clarify, negative events happen due to our level of distortion, unconsciousness, and separation -- its part of life. Beings experience what they don't want, which causes them to 'ask' or 'desire' for something (the new reality). They then either focus and find alignment with the new and improved reality, or they stay dwelling on the old one, which serves to re-perpetuate it's manifestation. The movement of focus from point A) to point B) is NEVER instantaneous, and this why people mistakenly believe focusing on the problems fixes them, it doesn't. But it DOES inspire the desire for the solution, which one can then find vibrational alignment with, and then experience it as real tangible experience once enough momentum is generated.
The thing is that 'You Create Your Own Reality' is unfalsifiable. Now, that is a dirty word to a materialist scientist, but for those following their intuition, and their hearts, its a matter of faith. Though, I don't blame anyone who doesn't subscribe to it -- it is a tough and complicated cookie to swallow. If one doesn't see its profound and implicit presence and constant effect on their personal subjective experience of reality, then that is their experience and who am I to argue with it? They would be in good company since most of the human race does not believe it, and of the portion that do, an even smaller fraction actually understands it.
[As an amusing aside, I've often thought of Ra's interaction with the Egyptians as having been somewhat analogous to an interaction on an internet forum (though obviously, a far more intense and significant event) in the sense that they showed up on the Egyptians "thread", shared some wisdom, departed, came back 10 pages later only to find significant distortions ongoing, which they similarly felt a need to make an attempt to undistort before they could un-entangle themselves from it. Anyway, the thought of this "cosmic historical internet forum" and Ra's participation as such made me chuckle, so I thought I would share the thought.]
@Austin
Your post was eloquent, and well worded, and while I appreciate the input to the thread, I feel you have grossly misrepresented and misinterpreted some of the perspectives shared by some members here, and I would like to offer some clarifications in regard to those perspectives. I have no problem with somebody disagreeing with a concept, I just like people to know what they are disagreeing with when they do it. There have certainly been instances in this thread where nuanced concepts could have been more carefully worded, especially due to the fact that people on this forum, and the world in general in the last couple of years it seems, are easily outraged, triggered, and otherwise emotionally set off by even the most seemingly innocuous language (though what is innocuous to one person, is not innocuous to another which seems to be a lesson many are learning as of late).
(10-27-2016, 06:17 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: It seems to me like the discussion here has boiled down into two questions:
1) Do we really ultimately have a hand in the bad things that happen to us?
2) Are we perpetuating bad things when we put our focus on the dynamics involved in those bad things?
I can't say my opinion on the first question is very eloquent or intricate. I trend greatly towards Octavia's eloquently expressed opinion, in that it might be ultimately true that we are the Creator, that which creates all things, and some level of our being creates the situation we experience. However, we simply cannot understand the dynamics of how this really happens. I simply do not find the concepts discussed in which a person "attracts" these things to themselves to be useful unless that attraction can, in some way, be distinguished and recognized (which it cannot). We add in the fact that we exist in a reality with billions of other individuals "attracting" things and we get a very vast and impenetrable system of intermingling "attractions." The majesty of such interconnected metaphysical dynamics does inspire awe, but I really can't believe it is as simple as has been spelled out anywhere in this thread.
It sort of sounds like you are saying, "I can't understand how my consciousness plays a role in my reality, so I'm going to live my life as if it were not true." That is perfectly fine if that is the sort of attitude you want to adopt, but I find it incredibly dis-empowering and disheartening to be honest. Also, I can't of myself live that idea authentically because it just doesn't agree with what I've come to personally understand as truth. You say the attraction cannot be distinguished or recognized -- that the dynamics of how this happens can't be understood, but there are many on this forum that would disagree, emphatically, myself included. While, it is true you cannot *physically* quantify or measure the force of the law of attraction in a Newtonian and materialistic sense, I would argue that there is not one iota of anyone's experience that doesn't testify to the reality of this fundamental metaphysical truth. Speaking of myself, I can very clearly see and understand the effect my focus plays in generating my experience. At this point, it has become so tangibly obvious to me, I can't simply pretend it isn't there.
It's also a bit like pretending gravity doesn't exist (aside from the fact that it is physically measurable). You can pretend all you want, but its still gonna pull you to the ground. Not understanding the physics of it, or the metaphysics of it, is not sound reasoning for abandoning the attempt to understand it. Also, nobody is saying it is simple.
(10-27-2016, 06:17 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: (It may be useful to point out that Ra talked about random events and catalyst – perhaps only seemingly random, but random enough for Ra to call them such. Meaning that for all intents and purposes we could possible experience something both random and traumatic.)
When the perception of this complex dynamic of "attraction" is so muddled, I think it does a disservice to those who experience traumatic or hurtful things at the hands of others to pop up and remind them "Hey, you created this!"
To kind of echo what Minyatur already expressed: this is not what anyone is advocating. Neither myself, nor Minyatur, as far as I'm aware is suggesting you go up to somebody who was just assaulted and say, "Hey, good job jacka*s! Way to get yourself raped!" That would be an extremely silly, uncompassionate, and counter-intuitive thing to do. You have to understand, we are addressing a forum of people who are presumably searching for deeper spiritual explanations for their reality and experience, and incidentally, a big part of participating in that deeper spiritual exploration is going beyond the bare bones acceptance that you are part of the creator, and *actually* trying to SEE and understand how the metaphysics of that play out on a deep and fundamental level of consciousness. To go beyond the casual background understanding that we are all one, and see and understand HOW we ARE the creator. We are the creator asleep, and this is about waking up that portion of ourselves. This is not about ascribing blame, it is about ascribing power, and the responsible use of such. People mistakenly confuse them as the same thing. Our emphasis is not on blame, it is on empowerment. The focus on blame is a lower vibrational preoccupation -- a human weapon.
So this isn't something we are going to offer any random person on the street with no understanding of even the most basic metaphysical precepts. Those people require a much different and more finessed approach, including the same understandings, but applied in a more general way.
And in regard to 'randomness': yes, random things do happen, but they only occur due to our unconsciousness of our consciousness. To the extent that we aren't aware of being the one infinite creator (which in 3rd density is significant), there will be random events. But I don't believe there are random events for the creator, because it is too conscious for that. Randomness extends from our unconsciousness, not consciousness.
(10-27-2016, 06:17 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: Getting to the second question, to tell a victim not to dwell upon their incident also completely ignores the mysterious and impactful nature of trauma (both personal and cultural). It's impossible to "just not dwell on it" when there are constant reminders, whether from your outer environment or inner environment, of the things which continues to affect you. This could be true of a victim of rape or also on a broader sense of those who fight against things like racism. To place responsibility of a trauma on a person because they are "dwelling on it" hurts far more than it helps. And the unfortunate thing is that this so often (though not in every case) comes from the type of person who will consistently dismiss the aggressor and focus only on the victim.
You have to understand, there are some seriously gross oversimplifications being applied here. We aren't suggesting someone can just "stop thinking about something" just like that. Our minds are not binary light switches that are instantly directable at will, and we UNDERSTAND that. We could look at these traumatic experiences from a more materialist lens, and the process of healing would be essentially the same, outwardly speaking. All that healing is is the process whereby we learn to see the good in the seemingly bad things that happened to us. And don't you see that is exactly what we are trying to communicate? It is a gradual turning of the attention from the negativity of the experience to the positive benefits of the experience -- the wisdom's gained, and the lessons learned, and the new desires inspired by that catalyst, negative though it may have been. It is no different from the normal process of healing that is applied. We are just offering a deeper explanation of WHY it is healing, WHY it works, and WHY it sometimes doesn't. There are subtle nuances to these shifts in attention, and so if you were overly triggered by the oversimplified description of "not to dwell on negativity" let me offer this clarification of what we mean by that. It is a *gradual* turning of attention from the pain to the wholeness. Again, we understand that the mind is not a light switch, and that we, at the 3rd density level of existence, do not have very good control of our minds to begin with.
There are times when people get stuck focusing on the "glass is half empty". We are just pointing out the detriment of that, and how that perspective just results in a more and more empty glass until it is ALL GONE. Much of these concepts we've attempted to relate were not worded as well as they could or should have been, much to the detriment and arguing of this thread. But alas, we are human. Forgive us for not being good communicators for a subject so touchy for so many people.
(10-27-2016, 06:17 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: I think this is easily evidenced by pretty much any successful social justice movement from the past. The Civil Rights Act was passed because of consistent focus on the issue of discrimination. Many people were brought to awareness because of the loud protests and continually pointing out how race was being used against people. The March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom did not create more discrimination because so many people focused on the discrimination, but rather brought light to the discrimination and helped culture shift towards justice. The same is true for pointing out cultural conditions that create today's victims and aggressors.
This was already addressed earlier in the thread: you are looking at these movements through the lens of your belief system, just as I am. Your belief system says that focusing on problems fixes the problems, and so that is what you see, naturally. When I look that these movements, both the successes and the failures, what I see is an example in history where negative experiences were had by a group of individuals which served to *inspire* a new desire, a new image, which was then focused on, to the exclusion of the focus on limitation, and resulted in the energization of the actions that led to the desired realized outcome the movement was reaching for. And in the cases where they failed, it was due to the misprision with which will was applied to the resistance being experienced.
Essentially, the fact is this: if evidence can be interpreted in two precisely opposite ways, then it simply isn't good evidence.
So just to clarify, negative events happen due to our level of distortion, unconsciousness, and separation -- its part of life. Beings experience what they don't want, which causes them to 'ask' or 'desire' for something (the new reality). They then either focus and find alignment with the new and improved reality, or they stay dwelling on the old one, which serves to re-perpetuate it's manifestation. The movement of focus from point A) to point B) is NEVER instantaneous, and this why people mistakenly believe focusing on the problems fixes them, it doesn't. But it DOES inspire the desire for the solution, which one can then find vibrational alignment with, and then experience it as real tangible experience once enough momentum is generated.
The thing is that 'You Create Your Own Reality' is unfalsifiable. Now, that is a dirty word to a materialist scientist, but for those following their intuition, and their hearts, its a matter of faith. Though, I don't blame anyone who doesn't subscribe to it -- it is a tough and complicated cookie to swallow. If one doesn't see its profound and implicit presence and constant effect on their personal subjective experience of reality, then that is their experience and who am I to argue with it? They would be in good company since most of the human race does not believe it, and of the portion that do, an even smaller fraction actually understands it.