Depression?

[AnthroHeart]

and yet I'm a computer programmer.

What languages do you write in GW?

I've done ColdFusion and asp.net.

I currently do ASP. I've also done Visual Basic.net and Visual Basic 6.

I've done a little PHP on the side.

I'm not an application developer. I mainly write reports.

[AnthroHeart]

"The truth is that suicide is complicated, and the combination of circumstances, emotions and motivations that precede a suicide attempt will be different for each person. While many people who kill themselves have been experiencing the extreme distress we might think of as depression, that’s not always the case and is rarely the whole explanation."

"Invoking the idea of illness can sometimes be helpful, but it isn’t the only way of connecting to people’s despair and of offering compassion and help without making value judgements. An alternative is simply to recognise that people can have a tough time. Surely that should be enough."

http://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/...es-suicide

[manniz]

Gems, you may like this. It is from another Bring4th sub-forum, so I am posting it here in case you miss it. It relates to your recent post about experience, which I had enjoyed very much.

Somewhere someone said we came here to exist on this side of the veil, rather than spend most of our time trying to reach the side we came from.

BrownEye, this is exactly what I resonate most with. Sometimes, all that infinity, catalyst talk kinda seems like an overkill. Experience is being undervalued my many of my spiritual peeps. Though, in many ways the modern society's avenues of experience kinda suck. But we still have family, dogs, trees, friends and mother Earth.

---

Also, just for your entertainment, Sir:

I have no clue about the validity of this, so treat it as an interesting story. It is the story of Lai, who has incarnated from what his QHHT refers as "Grid". So, his soul is here simply for experience. Just experience. No stress about polarities, graduation etc. Just experience. This has another clue too, but I would leave that to reader's intuition.

http://www.transients.info/2013/07/the-c...antum.html

Mods, you can move it to non-ra channeled info forum, if you want. I did not start a whole new thread there, since I wanted to post this just as an entertaining story for gemini, rather than a spiritual channelled message.

[AnthroHeart]

Also, just for your entertainment, Sir:

I have no clue about the validity of this, so treat it as an interesting story. It is the story of Lai, who has incarnated from what his QHHT refers as "Grid". So, his soul is here simply for experience. Just experience. No stress about polarities, graduation etc. Just experience. This has another clue too, but I would leave that to reader's intuition.

http://www.transients.info/2013/07/the-c...antum.html

Mods, you can move it to non-ra channeled info forum, if you want. I did not start a whole new thread there, since I wanted to post this just as an entertaining story for gemini, rather than a spiritual channelled message.

It's interesting reading other people's accounts of the other side. I'm going to read this now. It's fun when we're here just to experience. With no real desire to graduate. Oh yeah I want to graduate, but it's not my primary purpose. I think I'm here to experience too. But I've mentioned that before. Thanks Manniz.

I just hope I'm not trapped here because of my karma.

[AnthroHeart]

This song helps when I feel depressed. It just warmed me right up.

[Jamie35]

Felling lonely and unloved, a video displayed can be a sign from your sub consciousness of potential blocks in your life. You MUST get up, face the world, see it from a shamans point of view, understand where you are at, for YOU have a duty to the whole. YOU have a duty to the WHOLE by looking out for YOURSELF just as much as looking out for others, you cannot serve others this way by living in a state of depression. DRUGS are inhibitors, they are used to CONTROL you, the ILLUMINATI as they are called by the majority CONTROL the drugs. How many people are misdiagnosed for mental illnesses? Is your thoughts telling you something that perhaps YOU really do not have these problems that you have been diagnosed for. UNDERSTAND we are CONTROLLED by PSYCHOPATHS, and they LIE. So YOU must get up, do the WORK and your duty, and ask for assistance from the cosmos to get YOU through the day to face life for the whole is what matters. Meditation and deep breathing will help, & FOCUS on taking control of your mechanisms.

[AnthroHeart]

I told my stepmom how I was feeling and she said "Tom get that suicidal out of ur head".

I don't have a good control over my thoughts. They stream up from my subconscious.

But there must be a reason I keep having them. And sometimes they can last a minute while I dwell on them.

My therapist says I'm not supposed to feel manic, that it is bad. So I'm not supposed to feel good.

[isis]

I told my stepmom how I was feeling and she said "Tom get that suicidal out of ur head".

I don't have a good control over my thoughts. They stream up from my subconscious.

But there must be a reason I keep having them. And sometimes they can last a minute while I dwell on them.

My therapist says I'm not supposed to feel manic, that it is bad. So I'm not supposed to feel good.

imo, it's ok to think/fantasize about suicide; it's just something to think about that makes u feel good. imo if u kno in your heart that u'd never do it then u should feel free to think about it all u'd like if that brings u comfort

endings are a good thing

imo suicide is a blessing. i can imagine a reality where there's no such thing - where having the option to kill yourself wasn't an option...imo a lot animals are in that predicament & we are all in that predicament at 1 point in our lives: in infancy...some things are best forgotten...

i'm thankful i'm currently in a reality where i get to kno (or at least think) there's an exit that i can go thru anytime i'd like

[AnthroHeart]

I told my stepmom how I was feeling and she said "Tom get that suicidal out of ur head".

I don't have a good control over my thoughts. They stream up from my subconscious.

But there must be a reason I keep having them. And sometimes they can last a minute while I dwell on them.

My therapist says I'm not supposed to feel manic, that it is bad. So I'm not supposed to feel good.

imo, it's ok to think/fantasize about suicide; it's just something to think about that makes u feel good. imo if u kno in your heart that u'd never do it then u should feel free to think about it all u'd like if that brings u comfort

endings are a good thing

imo suicide is a blessing. i can imagine a reality where there's no such thing - where having the option to kill yourself wasn't an option...imo a lot animals are in that predicament & we are all in that predicament at 1 point in our lives: in infancy...some things are best forgotten...

i'm thankful i'm currently in a reality where i get to kno (or at least think) there's an exit that i can go thru anytime i'd like

I wouldn't want to repeat 3D. That's what mainly keeps me from it. Plus I don't want to hurt my loved ones. What you say is good. I get chills of excitement from such thoughts. Knowing I'm not trapped. But I don't think I would ever act on it. Still, they are enticing thoughts. I've only discussed this with my therapist. I don't recall what he says.

[isis]

I told my stepmom how I was feeling and she said "Tom get that suicidal out of ur head".

I don't have a good control over my thoughts. They stream up from my subconscious.

But there must be a reason I keep having them. And sometimes they can last a minute while I dwell on them.

My therapist says I'm not supposed to feel manic, that it is bad. So I'm not supposed to feel good.

imo, it's ok to think/fantasize about suicide; it's just something to think about that makes u feel good. imo if u kno in your heart that u'd never do it then u should feel free to think about it all u'd like if that brings u comfort

endings are a good thing

imo suicide is a blessing. i can imagine a reality where there's no such thing - where having the option to kill yourself wasn't an option...imo a lot animals are in that predicament & we are all in that predicament at 1 point in our lives: in infancy...some things are best forgotten...

i'm thankful i'm currently in a reality where i get to kno (or at least think) there's an exit that i can go thru anytime i'd like

haha i basically wrote that suicide is a holy act then that u should only let yourself think about it if u have no plans of actually doing it...so, correction: imo i think it's ok to think about it even u are planning on it

---

I wouldn't want to repeat 3D. That's what mainly keeps me from it. Plus I don't want to hurt my loved ones. What you say is good. I get chills of excitement from such thoughts. Knowing I'm not trapped. But I don't think I would ever act on it. Still, they are enticing thoughts. I've only discussed this with my therapist. I don't recall what he says.

can't kno for sure u'll have to repeat 3d

[AnthroHeart]

The ancient Japanese had a ritualized form of suicide that was honorable, if they were going to be captured or something. I have no real stressors in my life except for my workload.

---

Isis, I think you understand me more than anyone.

[xise]

Rational suicide is a wholly different beast than thinking about suicide when depressed.

On a practical level, I'm not sure if encouraging thoughts of suicide when depressed is something we want to do, especially since we've had at least one active forum member commit suicide. And I think his brother posted here and speculated that he thought his spiritual philosophy played a role in that decision - something about higher densities.

Once again , on a practical note, the Ra material already drives people away when people read about Don's suicide. Do we further develop that link to suicide by potentially having more members kill themselves?

[AnthroHeart]

The Ra material is serious business, that's for sure. It's been very hard teaching for me personally. It's been very difficult to take it all in.

---

This song describes how I feel.

[isis]

new correction: imo suicide is ok - unless u're a bring4thian

[Phoenix]

On the subject of suicide I had a suicide attempt recently. I had been bothered for a long time, exhausted and irrational. The crux of it happened when I looked at suicide on the internet and it was triggered in my dreams. Thereby making me feel it to be the only option out of my suggested situation.

My point being even thinking about suicide can have it's repercussions. And to make a decision based on a reality when it has a way of revealing itself to be not what it appears to be, is one that you will regret if successful and then you realise you stopped the dig just before the gold so to speak.

Off to the gym now, keeping my mind focused on real things.

[xise]

Regardless of who you are, from a universal perspective, there is love, acceptability, and truth in suicide, but it is an act that is of questionable wisdom.

[isis]

maybe, maybe not

[xise]

69.6:

"However, the death, if natural, would undoubtedly be the more harmonious; the death by murder being confused and the entity needing some time/space in which to get its bearings, so to speak; the death by suicide causing the necessity for much healing work and, shall we say, the making of a dedication to the third density for the renewed opportunity of learning the lessons set by the higher self."

[AnthroHeart]

I won't glorify suicide. It just seems like a bad idea.
After all we don't truly know the repercussions,
and how it would affect us in the scheme of eternity.
It must have a bearing on the rest of our eternity.
And one who commits suicide may think of themselves
a coward. I don't want that judgment of myself.
I've never attempted it in a dream, though
I'm not sure why. I've attempted it in real life a number of times.
But I don't take it seriously so I don't really try hard.

[Phoenix]

For me personally, and I recognise this might be a bit of a dig. But for me it I would try and come away from abstract concerns when thinking about such things. Like that you will regret it in the future. Which I know is what I outlined. But I understand if you are always thinking abstractly anyway it's hard to come out of. You need a long time and intense experiences to get out of this trap.

There are spiritual things that are often not abstract, like love. Your dogs for instance.

As with xise, when you talk about the wisdom or love in relation to suicide. What does it matter? God gives us a decision making process that we can use. It doesn't have to reference these things.

When it came down to it, after I injected 3300 units of insulin (I do about 60 units in a day), my bloodsugars didn't go down and I had a strong survival instinct that kept me alive and is still going. Also, experiencing your views as wrong again and again and again gives you the sure and certain knowledge that your perceptions can play tricks on you.

An Edgar Cayce quote says: Keep your face to the sun, then the shadows are behind.

[xise]

As with xise, when you talk about the wisdom or love in relation to suicide. What does it matter? God gives us a decision making process that we can use. It doesn't have to reference these things.

I'll try to word my statements less strongly, but I promise you the words I spoke were not meant or felt as judgements. Any perceived passion in my words were not reflections of a judgement on the choice of suicide, but perhaps a lack of understanding of how others could think about suicide without thinking through all of the outcomes - in essence thinking through the wisdom of the act. My bad. Definitely a distortion of mine to work upon - I have trouble accepting people who I perceive, correctly or incorrectly, make major life altering decisions without considering all the ramifications. Though certainly, even assuming I'm not mistaken about how much thought was given to the subject, such a decision making process is ultimately acceptable.


I guess I've just seen this reasoning a ton when I worked with people who started using meth/heroin recreationally without thinking about it and got hooked. (I actually oddly have no problem with those who knew what they were getting into and became a methhead) I truly believe there is no right or wrong. But there are still observations we can make about the way we view concepts and how we interact with that illusion, and consequences within the illusion, and that's what I was trying to discuss, on a practical level and on a universal level. I can also say that I too have taken comfort in the the thought of suicide in the past, and did not judge myself for it, but I was always honest and acknowledged that it was also an unwise act. But there's nothing wrong with unwise acts.


If we switch off our ability to discern or think between different courses of actions, it impairs our ability to contemplate, introspect, and ultimately impairs our ability to learn and discovery who we truly are. Which is ok too, but it's important to be honest about all the outcomes of the choice to not care about wisdom.

---

A free will choice is more free when a contemplated decision is arrived at as opposed to an impulsive or less thought through decision (for major life decisions). Though either is acceptable.

[Jade]

I find isis' perspective thoroughly thoughtful and interesting. What are we doing if we aren't following the things that thrill us or give us joy? Many people fantasize about many terrible things that they never act upon. I do understand Phoenix's point that giving attention to something is feeding it, but we all feed dangerous beasts on occasion. I think if something makes us excited to think about it - so be it! If we suppress all thoughts that make us happy it brings us to a place where we are nearly dead. Of course acting on thoughts that harm others or ourselves is not service-to-others, but we all can make our own choices.

As I was reading a thought popped into my head that may bear some congruency. When my husband was a teenager, he was a thrill seeker - lots of booze, drugs, stealing, fighting. Gang-behavior. He said each time he would push his body by taking more and more and more, to see how far it would go. He calmed down after his teen years (he said the safety net of his parents is what allowed him to push so far) but he still had a serious drinking problem until we met, when he was 28 and a few nights a week drinking up to two cases (nearly 50) beers in a night.

There are many kinds of ways people seek thrills in 3D. Toying with death is a large part of the experience. I think a lot of it is tied to the rush of adrenaline one gets in situations like that - for me, adrenaline has always made me queasy. But for many it is very addictive. It's that feeling of excitement. We have these heavy chemical bodies that are ours to play with and do as we please. It is all our Choice.

Gem, I know you said you expressed some reservations about working out because of a minor stroke. I must present this conundrum to you with all the love I can: If you say, try working out or doing something more physically exerting than usual and you enjoy it enough to continue doing it, and you were to say, die of natural causes while doing it, is this what you fear? Is it logical to in one breathe fear dying but in another express a desire to kill yourself? I hope this paradox is fruitful to ponder.

I want to thank everyone for their honesty in participating in this thread. I also want to make sure it's very clear that I do not desire to see anyone here kill themselves, however I also do thoroughly understand that one's path is theirs truly and there are no mistakes. Those who are aware of their Higher Self do not cease their 3D experience before an extremely well-considered time.

[xise]

I find isis' perspective thoroughly thoughtful and interesting. What are we doing if we aren't following the things that thrill us or give us joy? Many people fantasize about many terrible things that they never act upon. I do understand Phoenix's point that giving attention to something is feeding it, but we all feed dangerous beasts on occasion. I think if something makes us excited to think about it - so be it! If we suppress all thoughts that make us happy it brings us to a place where we are nearly dead. Of course acting on thoughts that harm others or ourselves is not service-to-others, but we all can make our own choices.

The thrill seeking angle is an interesting perspective. Not sure if it completely fits with GW's experience since I'm not sure depressive thrill seeking is a common theme (your husband wasn't depressed, right?), but I could be wrong and I can see the parallels to GW's case.


But I think some exciting fantasies can also involve suppression via a basic lack of self-honesty. All I'm saying is that if the idea of suicide excites you while you acknowledge Ra's generalization that it may require great healing after the fact, great, that's a legit fantasy. Respect to you. But if you contemplate suicide without also thinking of the potential consequences, you're engaging in suppression of the undesirable thoughts of those consequences.


I've heard this same story over and over again from meth addicts I used to represent - why did you start using meth: "it seemed exciting." I'm like dude didn't you ever hear about how addictive it was before you tried it? A few of them say "Yes, I knew what I was getting into, but I thought it was going to be different for me." For them, I say ok, cool. The vast majority say "Yeah, I guess I did, but I didn't really think about it." In my opinion, that majority engaged in a suppression - they knew meth was mad addictive, but they only thought of the excitement, and actively suppressed the thoughts of its addictive properties. You also see this reasoning in countless other contexts, probably the most prevalent is when in a relationship one person is cheating on the other, but the other refuses to acknowledge the signs and instead holds on to the fantasy of a good, faithful relationship. Fantasies can be exciting, but sometimes those same fantasies can cause people to lie to themselves and suppress unwanted thoughts.


GW, do what you want. I love you regardless brother. I'd only suggest (and feel free to disregard my suggestion, no hard feelings) that you go into big decisions with both eyes wide open. Don't suppress anything. Don't suppress your suicidal thoughts, but don't suppress yourself from thinking about the consequences of that action. But as always man, you got free will, you can do what you wish brother. It's all good.

[AnthroHeart]

Jade if I were to die of natural causes while exercising, that's all fine and dandy. I'm not afraid of dying in that manner, but more of becoming paralyzed like it did when I first had the stroke.

I don't have suicidal plans. I just get images of doing so and they excite me at times. Though life is hard, I am making sure I understand the consequences of such an act.

[xise]

I just get images of doing so and they excite me at times.

A) Is it thought of entering the afterlife that excites you, regardless of how you died, or
B) is it actually the act of taking your own life - suicide - that excites you?

[AnthroHeart]

Probably A. Though it's hard to tell with these visions I get.
So there's a little of B in there too.
But I don't really want to die.

[Jade]

I think that's what important, is that you know that you don't want to die. I also think it's important that you don't feel trapped, either. You aren't trapped here and you aren't bound in 3D and "doomed" to repeat it if suicide were to occur. Though we all really deep down know that we choose to be here and that the rewards are worth the pain.

I want to add that I spent many years as a teen entertaining suicidal thoughts. It's a dark shadowy realm but I think even in perspective I knew back then that I would never do it, but I still thought about it and fantasized about it often.

As for my husband, part of it I think was depression, as he had an NDE at age 14 when he went into anaphylactic shock and saw bright lights and felt the nothingness of the void. This left him feeling very nihilistic while he struggled with peer pressure and dealing with his addict father. He was then falsely accused of rape by his then-girlfriend which forced him to tone down the drugs and crime, but helped foster his binge-drinking through his 20s.

For what it's worth it seems to me that sometimes your symptoms of feeling trapped may be manifestations of the way the mind feels when we take psychoactive drugs. It's really not uncommon either for anyone taking mood stabilizers to entertain suicidal thoughts. The mind wants to "break free".

People self-medicate their depression and other disorders of the mind with many things, meth included. Or they are prescribed similar drugs from doctors. Suppressing our real thoughts with drugs is a symptom of our poorly managed mental health system in this transitional time. It'll get better. I wish everyone the best and most illuminating compasses in finding their peace of mind.

[Phoenix]

Sixe, when I read what you said again I kind of got it. To me the individual cases are important. There is a truth to it, there is a truth to the person not being able to take it and wanting to tell others etc. Love at not wanting to be a burden. Acceptance that things can't be changed or that the person isn't going to change it. Wisdom is hard to define, I think we need a definition of love, power and wisdom for the forum.

There was a song I used to play/ listen to a bit. Alone again, naturally by Gilbert O Sullivan. He sums up some things very well that most people I think feel when he says 'why did He (god) desert me.' ' To show everone what it's like when you're shattered.'

For me I felt I was guided to do things I didn't want to do, with the resistance they entail, and that were unfair to be required of me, and I hadn't slept for days and was exhausted. I still haven't really gotten anywhere, in my overall conclusion as to guided this or that. Or I haven't received strong guidance away from where I thought I was guided to. Therefore I have to do it myself. And I hope that is the 'right' solution and that I will find some sort of insight on the path of therapy (hasn't happened yet), religion and just getting on with life,

Trouble is with me is that there isn't much of a gap between will power and it's execution. If I think of something I usually do it pretty sharpish.

I think Gemini if you did it. The spirits on the other side would simply talk you through it, make you re commit your lessons and shove you back in. All this stuff about guilt would perhaps be true but it wouldn't be made any worse. They are not out to 'get you' they would simply do their best and try and communicate to you the real reasons it is not a good thing to do. These are enlightened non judgemental beings we are talking about.

[AnthroHeart]

I feel bad for creating this thread. I didn't want to stir up trouble.
But if I didn't get it out, I would have felt more trapped.

Yeah, I certainly don't want to repeat these lessons of life.

I wonder how Robin Williams is faring.

[Adonai One]

Phoenix, here are your definitions:

Love = Belief of an expression of something

Wisdom = Belief of complete love of something so far as to enable it in the present and future equally and completely

Power = Infinite belief of the self as all things loved, and as such, manifested