What is Magic?

[Cyan]

Magic is understanding that all is one and that you were born into a dream.

Accepting that into your heart without resistance will allow you to do anything to anyone anywhere at anytime for any reason.

Accepting that you have always had that power and this is what you created is called harvest. Or reaping what you sow.

[Shin'Ar]

Magic is understanding that all is one and that you were born into a dream.

Accepting that into your heart without resistance will allow you to do anything to anyone anywhere at anytime for any reason.

Accepting that you have always had that power and this is what you created is called harvest. Or reaping what you sow.

Sounds as though you have acquired some amazing powers my friend.

Tell me, is this your dream, or mine?

When you can create a mountain in your back yard without any more than your willpower, I will accept your proposal.

Until then I must assume that what you are proposing is ability beyond the natural laws of Divine Design, and nothing more than your own pipe dreaming and new age ambitions.

[Cyan]

Magic is understanding that all is one and that you were born into a dream.

Accepting that into your heart without resistance will allow you to do anything to anyone anywhere at anytime for any reason.

Accepting that you have always had that power and this is what you created is called harvest. Or reaping what you sow.

Sounds as though you have acquired some amazing powers my friend.

Tell me, is this your dream, or mine?

When you can create a mountain in your back yard without any more than your willpower, I will accept your proposal.

Until then I must assume that what you are proposing is ability beyond the natural laws of Divine Design, and nothing more than your own pipe dreaming and new age ambitions.

Interesting that you would misinterpret my words by intent.

Edit: I find this very interesting.

You are honestly say, that after all the stuff you have posted, you are unaware that this is a dream? With shared /mine / yours attributes to it and the locked planes that work as the reality that you attach yourself to. For real? You're not pulling my chain here and are actually saying what you write in honesty? Really?

[oneisall]

I have seen quite a bit in the Ra material about magic and magical, but I would like a simple explanation of what "magic" means in this context. I am NOT talking about the Tarot card, the Magician.

However, now that I've mentioned the Tarot, a second question would be why does Ra speak so much about the Tarot and the cards in it. Is it perhaps because Carla and her group are especially interested in this "distortion"?

To me Tarot and Astrology have meaning perhaps because there are so many thought forms built up around them in the mass consciousness.

Getting back to my first question, can anyone explain - in very simple terminology - what Ra might mean by "magic"?

"Magic" and "supernatural" are simply words to describe what can't be described by the observer. In reality there is nothing magic or 'super' about it, there is nothing 'meta' in physics. The universe doesn't make mistakes. remember that.

[Patrick]

I subscribe to the belief that Metaphysics is time/space and that Physics is space/time.

[Shin'Ar]

Magic is understanding that all is one and that you were born into a dream.

Accepting that into your heart without resistance will allow you to do anything to anyone anywhere at anytime for any reason.

Accepting that you have always had that power and this is what you created is called harvest. Or reaping what you sow.

Sounds as though you have acquired some amazing powers my friend.

Tell me, is this your dream, or mine?

When you can create a mountain in your back yard without any more than your willpower, I will accept your proposal.

Until then I must assume that what you are proposing is ability beyond the natural laws of Divine Design, and nothing more than your own pipe dreaming and new age ambitions.

Interesting that you would misinterpret my words by intent.

Edit: I find this very interesting.

You are honestly say, that after all the stuff you have posted, you are unaware that this is a dream? With shared /mine / yours attributes to it and the locked planes that work as the reality that you attach yourself to. For real? You're not pulling my chain here and are actually saying what you write in honesty? Really?

What do you mean when you say it is a dream?

A dream and a reality are two very different things, are they not? Are they not the opposite of each other?

In a dream one can have all these powers that you speak of.

In reality, such ability is a dream. At least it is considering our degree of evolution. What may be possible in our future state will come to be known.

But in your state at this time you are no more able to make anything you want to happen by willpower than I can drive down the road with my eyes closed without having an accident.

What I am curious about is why you choose to speak in such grandiose manner, and then deliberate to defend the fantasy of such dreaming.

I understand poetics and metaphors, but I also understand, all too well, delusion.

[caycegal]

Magic is understanding that all is one and that you were born into a dream.

Accepting that into your heart without resistance will allow you to do anything to anyone anywhere at anytime for any reason.

Accepting that you have always had that power and this is what you created is called harvest. Or reaping what you sow.

I like your post, Cyan. I will quibble with one point:

Accepting that into your heart without resistance will allow you to do anything to anyone anywhere at anytime for any reason.

Delete the words "to anyone" from this sentence, and I'm with you. I'm not sure we can affect others unless they choose to be affected on some level.

[spero]

....When you can create a mountain in your back yard without any more than your willpower, I will accept your proposal....

...in your state at this time you are no more able to make anything you want to happen by willpower than I can drive down the road with my eyes closed without having an accident.

Shin'Ar im gonna quote Ra a little out of context here...

It is not probable; but it is ever possible.

to close yourself off to a possibility because it unlikely is itself a kind of magic. You create a reality where it cant occur for you. i know there are laws that govern 3D existence but the universe is infinite and all possibilities exist in potentiation, unlikely as they are to be manifest.

ps have you noted your emphasis on willpower being the instigator of magical acts. i would suggest exploring co-creation. you invite the universe to help you create something not force it with your will....just saying

[zenmaster]

I subscribe to the belief that Metaphysics is time/space and that Physics is space/time.

Here in 3D "magic" is working with the so-called "metaphysical" in time/space. This is fundamentally non-local. It's also primary to the physical, just as mind is primary to the body. You can make changes to the underlying pattern by recognizing the pattern and willing something new. This change offers a new opportunity for manifestation according to what is possible to accept, either consciously or unconsciously.

[Cyan]

What do you mean when you say it is a dream?

Exactly as it sounds, that this is a dream. Nothing less and nothing more.

A dream and a reality are two very different things, are they not? Are they not the opposite of each other?

Nope.

In a dream one can have all these powers that you speak of.

Here as well, but only once. When you get the power for the first time, you get it for "all time".

In reality, such ability is a dream. At least it is considering our degree of evolution. What may be possible in our future state will come to be known.

I dont put much stock in time.

But in your state at this time you are no more able to make anything you want to happen by willpower than I can drive down the road with my eyes closed without having an accident.

http://www.digitalnewsrelease.com/?q=nfb_daytona

What I am curious about is why you choose to speak in such grandiose manner, and then deliberate to defend the fantasy of such dreaming.

Interesting that you would call it fantasy when we are on a forum dedicated to "imaginary" entities by most peoples accounts that talk to hard core christians about heaven and hell as subjective states of mind that you access through remembering that you are all there is.

I understand poetics and metaphors, but I also understand, all too well, delusion.

Please please please, stop with the calls of delusion, that just makes it more difficult for me to answer you with anything resembling friendlyness.

Best way I would describe it to you, is to say that this is a long term dream, and every night you have a short term dream, and it is a long term dream because you believe it repeats as you left it last time you went into the short term dream, this is the actual "delusion". It doesnt, every time you sleep the world changes, sometimes by "hours" sometimes by a lot more than that.

To have power is not the same as to have any idea of how to use that power. And THAT is why it doesnt matter. If i were to do anything i want now, i would lose the opportunity to learn from my subconcious (ya'll) since i remember more of this than i do my short term dreams,i prefer learning here than learning in a new dream every day, it would be exhausting this early in my process.

You have all the power in the universe, but not all the knowledge, temperance and all that other good stuff to use that power well, so, most people opt to saying they have non, that is not true either. You give your power away when you step into the illusion but its always there, you can call it forth even when within the illusion but, what if your plan is to live a million years in this illusion and slowly accumulate power, abilities, and understanding, and to get it all back now you would not be able to nor desire to progress along your previous path? You could say that you have programmed yourself to believe tha tyou need go through the motions. And you need to, but not to get the power of "magic" but to get the appreciation and the heart to use it well. We are not here to learn magic, we are here to learn how to not use magic, by my opinion. This place is a testin humility to not use the abilities that you have, once you wake up.

Thats my take on it,i dont know if its true, but based on experience post my "wakeup" i adamantly believe that we all have all power we could ever want or have, but almost none of us (myself included) have any real control over that with our limited selves. The limited self, the best way to put it, goes to run and hide in the corner when actual power is presented.

---

Magic is understanding that all is one and that you were born into a dream.

Accepting that into your heart without resistance will allow you to do anything to anyone anywhere at anytime for any reason.

Accepting that you have always had that power and this is what you created is called harvest. Or reaping what you sow.

I like your post, Cyan. I will quibble with one point:

Accepting that into your heart without resistance will allow you to do anything to anyone anywhere at anytime for any reason.

Delete the words "to anyone" from this sentence, and I'm with you. I'm not sure we can affect others unless they choose to be affected on some level.

See, this is where it gets dicey, my understanding is that there is an infinite amount of "me's" if you want to do something to me, a apsect of me will appear and allow you to do what eve ryou want, but it wont be "me" it will be an "aspect" of me.

Thats something that took me a tremendous amount of time to accept. But were i to, for example, try to do something to you, what would happen is that i could do it, but only within my "all power" but not within your "all power" but it would still be true for me, true for you, not true for me and not true for you.

And in there lies kind of the paradox that i came across. The thing kinda works like so that if I have a negative intent (do something not accepted by other self) there is kind of a protective system that kind of defuses the result but allows the act.

After the act is done if you at a later time regret it, you may undo something but what happens when you can "undo" something that you yourself have done with "absolute power"... There are so many paradoxes there that they boggle my mind.

It becomes interesting when you decide that something you did needs to be "undone" and you start to ponder what is your stance on it now and the world starts to rotate around the concept of you undoing something you have done before to put the whole of your path in another perspective and the universe turns to you and asks "what exactly is that perspective?" thats kind of what drives people nuts because it is "not in accordance with physics"... I believe that gemini wolf has some idea of what i mean by this effect. It has been observed by myself and a few others as "everyone turning towards you" but not remembering it themselves afterward for the most part... Dunno if that makes sense to anyone from my PoV.

It is kind of like this is an illusion that you are supposed to "teleport" out of by the common understanding of how things go, but when that moment comes you can "teleport" and "not teleport" at the same time and kind of cause a bug within the concept of how reality works and "shift" sideways into the structure of how its built. This makes very little explanatory sense but the gist of it should be there. And should also explain some of the odd results some seers here are getting from my field =D

But yes, you both can and cant do it to anyone. Mostly cant because you'll start to regret doing to anyone anything harmful eventually and thus wish to undo it and that wish since timeless prevents you from doing it in the moment. These kinds of feedbackloops prevent it "now" from "other now"...

Does that make sense as to why you can and cant do it to anyone and everyone.... I hope it does....

[zenmaster]

What do you mean when you say it is a dream?

Exactly as it sounds, that this is a dream. Nothing less and nothing more.

A dream and a reality are two very different things, are they not? Are they not the opposite of each other?

Nope.

Depends on the idea of "dream". Here we're mostly unconscious anyway, so it is much like a dream. However it is application of consciousness which allows us to polarize and not the unconscious, unconsidered feedback itself. So there should be a distinction in that respect. Just as dreams tend to communicate symbolism and allegory of our situations, so too does conscious consideration of the allegorical and symbolic aspect of reality in our working memory.

[Shin'Ar]

....When you can create a mountain in your back yard without any more than your willpower, I will accept your proposal....

...in your state at this time you are no more able to make anything you want to happen by willpower than I can drive down the road with my eyes closed without having an accident.

Shin'Ar im gonna quote Ra a little out of context here...

It is not probable; but it is ever possible.

to close yourself off to a possibility because it unlikely is itself a kind of magic. You create a reality where it cant occur for you. i know there are laws that govern 3D existence but the universe is infinite and all possibilities exist in potentiation, unlikely as they are to be manifest.

ps have you noted your emphasis on willpower being the instigator of magical acts. i would suggest exploring co-creation. you invite the universe to help you create something not force it with your will....just saying

You misunderstand.

Intent is simply focus and premeditation. it is NOT applying some source of willpower that is so powerful that it is somehow able to defy the laws of Divine Design.

Intent in alchemical application is preparation using knowledge, wisdom and deliberation.

And I do not suggest that anything is impossible at all. Who knows what is possible in such a great Mystery as creation?

But I do point out that there is much new age poetic discussion about "being the Creator", which causes people to assume the position that if they are the Creator they must also be omnipotent.

This is delusional and does not speak to wisdom in any way.

To understand The One and how we are connected to it requires evolved understanding, and to have acquired such information without the evolved understanding causes such gatherers to assume these omnipotent and godlike attributes.

In such cases this delusion attempts to suggest that the natural laws of physics and the dynamics of the universe are able to be manipulated and transformed by one's omnipotence.

This is untrue.

as we evolve that may become a possibility. who knows?

But in this state of evolution, fields are restricted to working within the parameters of the design.

There is much that exists within that design that goes unseen and unrealized by many in this state of being, which when finally realized and understood can be applied and interacted with that many would call supernatural or magical, but it is certainly not beyond the restrictions of Divine Design, nor a state of omnipotence.

---

To have power is not the same as to have any idea of how to use that power.

You have all the power in the universe, but not all the knowledge, temperance and all that other good stuff to use that power well, so, most people opt to saying they have non, that is not true either.

I do not intend to insult when I use the term delusion. But it is the word which fits what I want to express.

Above you speak to the real dynamic.

Within us is the power. However it is NOT omnipotence. It is the Sacred Fire which dances within the form of every creation.

THAT is the connector.

And it is also the key which evolves each and every fragment into higher being.

However, the fragment does not acquire that of its own omnipotent desire. it is a gift bestowed upon each from the Highest Power; The Source Flame.

In one's attempt to utilize that sacred fire as they evolve and come to realize it, one must also realize their restriction as a fragment and not assume some godliness that exceeds their state of being.

If I am wrong, please, may I ask of you to make this simple gesture. Use your power to make the leaves on my apple tree remain throughout the winter months.

That should not be too much to ask if you are right and I am wrong.

If the world changes as you dream, why is it that as you dream one can sit by your side and watch your every sleeping,dreaming second, and not see anything different than the reality in which you both exist?

[Aureus]

I subscribe to the belief that Metaphysics is time/space and that Physics is space/time.

Here in 3D "magic" is working with the so-called "metaphysical" in time/space. This is fundamentally non-local. It's also primary to the physical, just as mind is primary to the body. You can make changes to the underlying pattern by recognizing the pattern and willing something new. This change offers a new opportunity for manifestation according to what is possible to accept, either consciously or unconsciously.

Would you perhaps give a practical example of 3D magic, given the proposed function?

I understand how the personality is discilplined in this way, yet I am still unsure about the boundaries of manifestation. Could there perhaps be a relation between the mass of the object and the amount of energy accumulated in indigo-ray? The latter being only a spontaneous speculation..

Thanks

[Cyan]

NEver said omnipotence, simply all power in the universe.

Different concepts.

Not to be mean, but at least get what i say right before you start trying to argue against it.

Omnipotency and all power in the universe are so vastly different as concepts that i'm not sure that i can even bother trying to overturn your point when you dont get the starting point right.

Omnipotence creates logical paradoxes (make rock so large you cant lift it) while all power in "the one creation" only referers to every creatures ability to manifest anything they wish at any time they wish. This is simply a re-ordering of the Ra concept of being able to choose any catalyst you wish when you are advanced enough.

To me this is pretty blatantly obvious to mean that we can create anything we want that isnt a logical paradox.

Edit: if you are right then please, break your own illusion and creation by turning into a Cthulhlu beast Simply for my STS amusement because i wish to mislabel what you say to fit my own model. =)

Edit2: It would also be a high infringement on the trees self determination to force it to waste energy that way. But if you want, I can build a glass greenhouse around the tree and have lamps on it thus keeping its leaves throughout the winter. Or I can tell you how to do it (earn some money and do it yourself, you have the means) within the maybe 1-2 weeks before winter and the leaves fall. You have plenty of time for it. That you dont want to do it and go for the easy answer of "whine you do it for me cus i dont believe i have the means to do so" is neither my problem nor my interest. If you dont believe you can do it thats your perogative. I believe i could by shelling out enough energy, firstly in the form of money to build a greenhouse, failing that i would move up incrementally through the neccesary power levels until i find something that would allow the plant to maintain itself. But each consecutive step (launch solar mirrors to reflect more sunlight back onto the surface around that plant) would require a massive increase in the amount of energy spent. That you fail to see how your body plays a part in the process of magic is sad and perhaps not at all unexpected because you speak of "divine design". Which i consider to be always an externalization of the internal power.

Anyway, long story short, i wont harm the tree's desire to be in that place to please you. I would, were I the one that wanted proof, or were I sure the tree would want to experience that. Otherwise i dont go around, in general, playing with physics for the "s***ts and giggles".

Beyond the physical apparatus i could build to maintain the plants leaves. I could step incrementally more into the astral and gain abilities (healing) (manifestation) (catalyst choosing) until i hit something that would work to maintain the tree throughout the winter. Most likely spiritual way to do it would be to gather a small group for the purpose of performing a miracle (100-200) and get them to pitch in on building the glass greenhouse, simply to irritate your certainty that it cant be done.

But I believe I have opened the energy to you, weather(sp) or not you accept it and carry out your part in its activation to manifest the desire you laid out (tree has leaves throughout winter) is up to you. The universe isnt your "giant prostitute". Do your part and witness miracles, dont do your part and talk about miracles.

Edit3: My apologies for flipping at this, but i hope this conveys it better than me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjToVZTqCbw

[zenmaster]

I subscribe to the belief that Metaphysics is time/space and that Physics is space/time.

Here in 3D "magic" is working with the so-called "metaphysical" in time/space. This is fundamentally non-local. It's also primary to the physical, just as mind is primary to the body. You can make changes to the underlying pattern by recognizing the pattern and willing something new. This change offers a new opportunity for manifestation according to what is possible to accept, either consciously or unconsciously.

Would you perhaps give a practical example of 3D magic, given the proposed function?

I understand how the personality is discilplined in this way, yet I am still unsure about the boundaries of manifestation. Could there perhaps be a relation between the mass of the object and the amount of energy accumulated in indigo-ray? The latter being only a spontaneous speculation..

With that function it operates not in terms of mass but in terms of distortion. You recognize the distortion and offer a new pattern. The pattern is accepted or rejected consciously or even unconsciously. It's really that simple. If you want to learn something like that, just practice with active imagination. You will eventually notice that the same imagination recognizes distortions which were not so much induced but impressed. So you may then actively change what you see and what may follow, if congruent with the universe (or that which is intelligent), is the less subtle manifestation of that change.

[Lycen]

Had this come up somewhere els.. *mystery* hehe

At this time the nearest interpretation of "Magic" I am able to put to words is:
Laws of the universe not yet understood.

I have not read the thoughts you all have posted, as I wanted to share meine .)

*waves*

[Cyan]

Common distortion that Lycen, one I'm quite commonly doing myself ;D

[Aureus]

Thank you zenmaster!

[Ankh]

I have seen quite a bit in the Ra material about magic and magical, but I would like a simple explanation of what "magic" means in this context. I am NOT talking about the Tarot card, the Magician.

......

Getting back to my first question, can anyone explain - in very simple terminology - what Ra might mean by "magic"?

You've had some very good answers to these questions in this thread. One that was missed is:

Magical ability is the ability to consciously use the so-called unconscious.

...However, now that I've mentioned the Tarot, a second question would be why does Ra speak so much about the Tarot and the cards in it. Is it perhaps because Carla and her group are especially interested in this "distortion"?

To me Tarot and Astrology have meaning perhaps because there are so many thought forms built up around them in the mass consciousness. ...

Tarot was a method that L/L Research group chose to study to understand the Archetypical mind which is:

The archetypical mind may be defined as that mind which is peculiar to the Logos of this planetary sphere. Thusly unlike the great cosmic all-mind, it contains the material which it pleased the Logos to offer as refinements to the great cosmic beingness. The archetypical mind, then, is that which contains all facets which may affect mind or experience.

To study the Archetypical mind is a work of an adept (or magician?). And Ra offered the group to choose one method of this study. L/L Research group chose Tarot as the method of the study of Archetypical mind.

[Shin'Ar]

NEver said omnipotence, simply all power in the universe.

Different concepts.

If I have gotten you to acknowledge that there is a great difference between being 'The Omnipotent Creator", and being a fragment of that One Source Field, which can interact with the creation process within the limitations of the authority of The Divine Design, then I believe that our discussion, and my part in it has served its purpose.

I hope that others reading this might also come to the same realization that you have here.

[Cyan]

NEver said omnipotence, simply all power in the universe.

Different concepts.

If I have gotten you to acknowledge that there is a great difference between being 'The Omnipotent Creator", and being a fragment of that One Source Field, which can interact with the creation process within the limitations of the authority of The Divine Design, then I believe that our discussion, and my part in it has served its purpose.

I hope that others reading this might also come to the same realization that you have here.

Far as I know, i never used the word omnipotent to describe anyone, least of all myself.

Being able to do anything I want, sure.

[Shin'Ar]

NEver said omnipotence, simply all power in the universe.

Different concepts.

If I have gotten you to acknowledge that there is a great difference between being 'The Omnipotent Creator", and being a fragment of that One Source Field, which can interact with the creation process within the limitations of the authority of The Divine Design, then I believe that our discussion, and my part in it has served its purpose.

I hope that others reading this might also come to the same realization that you have here.

Far as I know, i never used the word omnipotent to describe anyone, least of all myself.

Being able to do anything I want, sure.

Anything that is not a logical paradox, as you put it?

[Spaced]

I have seen quite a bit in the Ra material about magic and magical, but I would like a simple explanation of what "magic" means in this context. I am NOT talking about the Tarot card, the Magician.

......

Getting back to my first question, can anyone explain - in very simple terminology - what Ra might mean by "magic"?

You've had some very good answers to these questions in this thread. One that was missed is:

Magical ability is the ability to consciously use the so-called unconscious.

...However, now that I've mentioned the Tarot, a second question would be why does Ra speak so much about the Tarot and the cards in it. Is it perhaps because Carla and her group are especially interested in this "distortion"?

To me Tarot and Astrology have meaning perhaps because there are so many thought forms built up around them in the mass consciousness. ...

Tarot was a method that L/L Research group chose to study to understand the Archetypical mind which is:

The archetypical mind may be defined as that mind which is peculiar to the Logos of this planetary sphere. Thusly unlike the great cosmic all-mind, it contains the material which it pleased the Logos to offer as refinements to the great cosmic beingness. The archetypical mind, then, is that which contains all facets which may affect mind or experience.

To study the Archetypical mind is a work of an adept (or magician?). And Ra offered the group to choose one method of this study. L/L Research group chose Tarot as the method of the study of Archetypical mind.

I like Ra's version of the tarot because it has become such a useful tool for me in understanding the workings of our Logos' creation.

The Ra quote about how magical ability is being able to consciously use the unconscious is represented in the tarot by the Magician and the High Priestess, or the Matrix of the Mind and the Potentiator of the Mind. The Magician represents the conscious mind, which is experimenting constantly with the various ideas and concepts it's picked up along the way, and the High Priestess is the so-called unconscious mind, which is always observing passively with connection to the spirit represented by the moon which is usually in her card. The interaction of the Matrix and the Potentiator generate a Catalyst, or the Empress. The Empress' masculine counterpart is the Emperor, the Experience of the Mind. I see the Emperor as being the attitude you adopt towards the Catalyst you are receiving, which is where polarity starts coming into play.

As you can see Magic is the work of the mind and as such is limited by the mind and what it can conceive of and the limitations of our agreed upon illusion. Personality is a big part of it because the frame of mind with which you approach your experimentation will greatly effect the outcome. Asking the right questions will with the proper attitude will generate Catalyst closer to what you intended or really want. Ritual, meditation, focusing on crystals and what-have-you are all ways to get into a magical frame of mind where you can see things from a sacramental perspective; you can then adopt a magical personality which lends authority to your questioning and has reverence for the Catalyst which is presented.

As always this is only my perspective on these things, take only what resonates. I think my signature says it well.

[native]

[Shin'Ar]

Magic is the intentional effort to connect with what 'seems' to be the other, which, when connected with, becomes the evolved aspect of what existed prior to that connection.

[Plenum]

Magic is the intentional effort to connect with what 'seems' to be the other, which, when connected with, becomes the evolved aspect of what existed prior to that connection.

well, Mr Shin, that has to be one of the shortest postings that you've made to these boards ever!

on the topic of magic and magical rituals, it reminded me of this bit of Q'uo. It is a somewhat challenging piece that addresses the issue of those (ie us) who reach for things before they are in a position to receive them (and integrate them fully). I'm sure there is a place for spiritual gadgets such as ritual magic, but they are powerful tools indeed.

Now, you have asked why those who desire most keenly to serve purely experience difficult incarnations, and why those who use gadgets, such as pyramids, crystals and magical rituals, also run into a good deal of difficulty in the life experience as perceived subjectively.

Let us take the case of those who are using gadgets such as drugs, or shapes, or methods of focusing concentration, in order to aid their service to others, for their difficulties arise from a different level than others. Those who are willing to use a crutch in order to vault themselves upwards into the light, whether the crutch be drugs, or magical rituals, or whatever other occult science may be used as a gadget, have literally pulled themselves to a place for which they have not worked, and for which they well may not be ready. Whether or not they are ready to experience the wisdom and light, the love and compassion, of intercourse with the deity they must reckon with the falseness of their position in the light. Drugs wear off. The magical personality may crumble between the grocery store and gas station. Occult wisdom may leave one without resources when something occurs that is completely against that particular dogmatic method of perceiving the archetypical mind. And alone at last with itself, this entity who has no crutch now, finds itself committed to dispensing actions and words and the very beingness of its self in a way congruent with what it has learned. The crutch is gone, but the entity is responsible for the light that that crutch has gained.

Thus, it may be seen that those who by any means other than natural move themselves to transformation, must needs be responsible for that which has been gained long after the crutch has been thrown away. The more effective the use of the crutch has been to an entity, the greater will be the disparity between that entity’s awareness of truth and that entity’s ability to show it forth in the life experience.

Thusly, we have always encouraged entities who seek spiritually to do so honestly and naturally, having infinite patience for the wayward, conscious self. It is in fact a breach of the love of self to use any crutch whatsoever to gain knowledge of the most high, for it is an action of one who does not love or trust the self as much as it loves and trusts other selves. It finds itself quite unworthy, and must needs use this crutch to gain access to spiritual awareness. Entities, therefore, that have experienced difficulty because of using a crutch of any kind that alters the consciousness of the self, will find themselves in a difficult position, for they have attempted to serve others before they have learned to love themselves, and therefore to love others without stint.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0324.aspx

[caycegal]

So does this mean even mantras or affirmations or journaling are not okay for q'uo? What about channeling or dream work.Sounds prettymuch like an austerity program.

[Conifer16]

What is magic.....

Life :-D

<3

[Plenum]

So does this mean even mantras or affirmations or journaling are not okay for q'uo? What about channeling or dream work.Sounds prettymuch like an austerity program.

yeah, that was my impression at first ... that it seemed rather judgmental on using these tools.

but having digested it since first reading, it seems that the spiritual path is all about making permanent, effective changes. Q'uo uses the word crutch quite prominently, and a crutch is exactly that; using an aritifical aid to boost your power and reach. And what happens when that crutch is taken away or no longer available? one is left in a vulnerable position, having gained power (the use of light) without a natural means of sustaining it.

of course, nothing is prohibited in our 3d experience, it is just that some things are less effective than others in generating deep change.

- -

in regards to dreamwork (your question), that very much seems to be a guided process from the Higher Self that is fully aware of what and what not you are capable of handling. And it gives full respect to free will by allowing you to ignore or pay attention to your dreams.

and waht they write here about occult wisdom - "Occult wisdom may leave one without resources when something occurs that is completely against that particular dogmatic method of perceiving the archetypical mind." is regards having too rigid a view of the archetypal mind, by following exactly in anothers learnings or footsteps. Being able to spontaneously adapt to changing circumstances is also a quality of the postivie path (versus control on the negative).

- -

to link it back to the original question on magic and magical tools, the unconscious is a great resource and can be drawn upon via the High Priestess (card number two).

[Shin'Ar]

Magic is the intentional effort to connect with what 'seems' to be the other, which, when connected with, becomes the evolved aspect of what existed prior to that connection.

well, Mr Shin, that has to be one of the shortest postings that you've made to these boards ever!

on the topic of magic and magical rituals, it reminded me of this bit of Q'uo. It is a somewhat challenging piece that addresses the issue of those (ie us) who reach for things before they are in a position to receive them (and integrate them fully). I'm sure there is a place for spiritual gadgets such as ritual magic, but they are powerful tools indeed.

Now, you have asked why those who desire most keenly to serve purely experience difficult incarnations, and why those who use gadgets, such as pyramids, crystals and magical rituals, also run into a good deal of difficulty in the life experience as perceived subjectively.

Let us take the case of those who are using gadgets such as drugs, or shapes, or methods of focusing concentration, in order to aid their service to others, for their difficulties arise from a different level than others. Those who are willing to use a crutch in order to vault themselves upwards into the light, whether the crutch be drugs, or magical rituals, or whatever other occult science may be used as a gadget, have literally pulled themselves to a place for which they have not worked, and for which they well may not be ready. Whether or not they are ready to experience the wisdom and light, the love and compassion, of intercourse with the deity they must reckon with the falseness of their position in the light. Drugs wear off. The magical personality may crumble between the grocery store and gas station. Occult wisdom may leave one without resources when something occurs that is completely against that particular dogmatic method of perceiving the archetypical mind. And alone at last with itself, this entity who has no crutch now, finds itself committed to dispensing actions and words and the very beingness of its self in a way congruent with what it has learned. The crutch is gone, but the entity is responsible for the light that that crutch has gained.

Thus, it may be seen that those who by any means other than natural move themselves to transformation, must needs be responsible for that which has been gained long after the crutch has been thrown away. The more effective the use of the crutch has been to an entity, the greater will be the disparity between that entity’s awareness of truth and that entity’s ability to show it forth in the life experience.

Thusly, we have always encouraged entities who seek spiritually to do so honestly and naturally, having infinite patience for the wayward, conscious self. It is in fact a breach of the love of self to use any crutch whatsoever to gain knowledge of the most high, for it is an action of one who does not love or trust the self as much as it loves and trusts other selves. It finds itself quite unworthy, and must needs use this crutch to gain access to spiritual awareness. Entities, therefore, that have experienced difficulty because of using a crutch of any kind that alters the consciousness of the self, will find themselves in a difficult position, for they have attempted to serve others before they have learned to love themselves, and therefore to love others without stint.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0324.aspx

"It is a somewhat challenging piece that addresses the issue of those (ie us) who reach for things before they are in a position to receive them (and integrate them fully)."

I sense that this was written after you have read another of my posts. lol


Plenum, I am aware of your bond with the Tarot and Ra's interpretation of it.

But what you must also acknowledge is that very system of information is not for the evolved who reach a state of being in which such information is entirely understood; rather it is a system of guidance offering the opportunity to discover the information which is hidden within.

It was not coded for the sake of being relayed to those who already know it. It was designed in this way for those who are in the process of coming to understand the truths which reside there.

The library in a university is not there for the intellects that have already acquired an knowledge of the information stored there. It is there for those who are learning.

What Quo speaks of here is not suggesting that acquiring information beyond one's comprehension is wrong. It is simply pointing out that using methods to advance one's self beyond their evolved state of comprehension will result in oneself finding themselves in a classroom filled with students of a grade far beyond their own.

The shortcut or secret passage you used to get there does not also advance you into higher being just because you have managed to skip ahead.

The crutch is not the gadgets, it is the deployment of those gadgets.

Quo does not suggest that gadgets are a wasted effort, just that improper and untimely use of them will only enable brief passages to places where one may not be prepared to visit.

BUT, for those who are prepared and do know the processes such medium is very efficient and useful.

The untimely use of such 'gadgets' results in the same corrupted fundamentalism and extremism that we find from science to occultism and into religion around the world. Many discover information that they then corrupt with their own lack of understanding, and the crutch used to acquire that information, being weak, cannot offer strong support.

Plenum, if you can determine the message offered in the correlation between the vine in this card and the hanging man card, you will further understand what I speak to here.