Indigo-ray body Vs. Sixth-Density

[Adonai One]

I had a previous thread that was involved with this but I decided to narrow the subject matter down even further. We go to the indigo-ray body at death. Is the indigo-ray not within the same purview as 6th density? Do we not exist in 6th density form in between incarnations? What limitations exist in preincarnative indigo-ray versus true 6th density? Or are they one and the same?

Much obliged. L/L

[JustLikeYou]

The Indigo Ray body appears to exist in the 6th sub-density of 3rd density, also known as the indigo or "etheric" plane. It is from this portion of 3rd density that the microcosmic Intelligent Energy within each entity is focused into a unit -- call it a Soul -- which decides the blueprint structure of illusion it will experience. That is, this is where the central locus of the Creativity of the Self is found -- the Infinite Mystery of the 3D self being in the Violet Ray body, existing upon the "buddhic" plane.

Upon death, it is not the 6th density body which is activated, but the 3rd density, 6th sub-density body which is activated. The 6th density body cannot and will not be activated until the entity is capable of existing within such a densely illuminated illusion without being "burned" by the Light, so to speak.

[Adonai One]

The Indigo Ray body appears to exist in the 6th sub-density of 3rd density, also known as the indigo or "etheric" plane. It is from this portion of 3rd density that the microcosmic Intelligent Energy within each entity is focused into a unit -- call it a Soul -- which decides the blueprint structure of illusion it will experience. That is, this is where the central locus of the Creativity of the Self is found -- the Infinite Mystery of the 3D self being in the Violet Ray body, existing upon the "buddhic" plane.

Upon death, it is not the 6th density body which is activated, but the 3rd density, 6th sub-density body which is activated. The 6th density body cannot and will not be activated until the entity is capable of existing within such a densely illuminated illusion without being "burned" by the Light, so to speak.

Sub-density is a such better term. Thanks for making things clear!

[Bring4th_Austin]

I've always understood sub-densities to be steps of awareness within the major densities that we would progress through as we evolve our consciousness. This view seems to not be compatible with the idea that a "3rd density, 6th sub-density" body is activated upon death. Does this particular view suppose that our third density body is always a "3rd density, 3rd sub-density" body? Is this idea of a 6th sub-density body reconcilable with the idea of progressing through sub-densities as we experience 3rd density?

[JustLikeYou]

I've noticed that incompatibility also, but in 17.39 and 90.25, the words "plane" and "sub-density" are used synonymously. My take on this is that movement through the sub-densities is a movement of consciousness. Moreover, I've concluded that the meeting-place of the upward and downward spiralling light -- known as the height to which the kundalini has risen -- determines the sub-density in which your consciousness resides. Hence, you consciously move in an through the inner planes because much of your consciousness has taken up residence there -- even though these planes are not physical. As far as the physical body, I would say that this is the only place where the 3rd density body can exist, but that it is greatly impacted by the consciousness of the entity wielding the body.

[spero]

The most important concept to grasp about the energy field is that the lower or negative pole will draw the universal energy into itself from the cosmos. Therefrom it will move upward to be met and reacted to by the positive spiraling energy moving downward from within. The measure of an entity’s level of ray activity is the locus wherein the south pole outer energy has been met by the inner spiraling positive energy.

As an entity grows more polarized this locus will move upwards. This phenomenon has been called by your peoples the kundalini. However, it may better be thought of as the meeting place of cosmic and inner, shall we say, vibratory understanding. To attempt to raise the locus of this meeting without realizing the metaphysical principles of magnetism upon which this depends is to invite great imbalance.

Whats interesting about the meeting place of the upward and downward spiralling light for determining the true color density you can inhabit is that contrary to the popular belief that the downward spiraling light is universal energy and the upward light is your inner personal energy, its actually the reverse. The downward spiralling light to paraphrase the above is the inner energy and the upward light is the universal energy of the cosmos. The reason why i bring this up is that too often we have a bottom up approach toward evolution through the densities, rather than a top down. Using the bottom up approach it becomes unfathomable that our form-maker body could be the same thing as the sixth density body...after all we havnt evolved to that level yet. Using the top down approach, the notion that we spring back to our source between incarnations and drop back down to incarnate becomes a lot more plausible.

Granted we can't incarnate in space/time 6d bodies because distortions in our lower chakra's impeded the progress of cosmic energy up to the correct locus for that too occur, but that doesnt mean our consciousness doesn't go to the time/space equivalent of 6D.

[JustLikeYou]

Keen observation on the spiralling light quotation. I missed that, too.

Within a coherent interpretation of the Ra Material, the form-maker can not be the 6th density body. If it were, then there would be no distinction between yourself between lives and your higher self. And yet, Ra says that these two collaborate to choose the next life.

Moreover, the 6D body is an incarnate body, just as the 3D body is. Moreover, the dimension occupied after death is 3D time/space, not 6D time/space. For all of these reasons, the form-maker can only be the 6th sub-density body within 3rd density.

Edited to add: I've just read through a few of my recent posts and am appalled at how often I'm using logical progression particles...

[anagogy]

I had a previous thread that was involved with this but I decided to narrow the subject matter down even further. We go to the indigo-ray body at death. Is the indigo-ray not within the same purview as 6th density? Do we not exist in 6th density form in between incarnations? What limitations exist in preincarnative indigo-ray versus true 6th density? Or are they one and the same?

Much obliged. L/L

My opinion, and understanding is that the indigo body is, in fact, the body of your Higher Self -- the magical personality. It is a sixth density body. When Ra says that after death the indigo body is the first body activated, this means, from my perspective, that your Higher Self moves into action to scoop up its now newly discarnate 3rd density analog self. When Ra says we "rest therein", it simply means your 3rd density consciousness in time/space sits within the nest of energy shells of the more refined, higher density consciousness fields.

This would be the discarnate portion of a death/rebirth cycle. But then, you only have this interim between lives if you've activated your green ray center. Those who haven't, are on auto-pilot, and the Higher Self simply chooses incarnations for them, which occur rapidly upon physical death.

As Ra says, "3.8 [...] Much as your mind/body/spirit complex dwells within an hierarchy of vehicles and retains, therefore, the shell, or shape, or field, and the intelligence of each ascendingly intelligent or balanced body, so does each atom of such a material as rock. [...]"

And the sixth density body isn't necessarily a space/time incarnate body.

We have time/space bodies too.

47.9
Questioner: Which bodies do we have immediately after physical death from this yellow-ray body that I now am in?

Ra: I am Ra. You have all bodies in potentiation.

When an entity of any density dies, it is still of that same density after death. Ra sometimes refers to "time/space bodies". What the heck this that anyway? Time/space isn't material, so they can't be made of "matter". Ra gives us some clues though.

For example:

66.14
Questioner: Would you explain that last comment about the configuration in time/space?

Ra: I am Ra. Healing is done in the time/space portion of the mind/body/spirit complex, is adopted by the form-making or etheric body, and is then given to the space/time physical illusion for use in the activated yellow-ray mind/body/spirit complex. It is the adoption of the configuration which you call health by the etheric body in time/space which is the key to what you call health, not any event which occurs in space/time. In this process you may see the transdimensional aspect of what you call will, for it is the will, the seeking, the desire of the entity which causes the indigo body to use the novel configuration and to reform the body which exists in space/time. This is done in an instant and may be said to operate without regard to time. We may note that in the healing of very young children there is often an apparent healing by the healer in which the young entity has no part. This is never so, for the mind/body/spirit complex in time/space is always capable of willing the distortions it chooses for experience no matter what the apparent age, as you call it, of the entity.

67.6
Questioner: Which body in respect to the colors does the entity use to travel to us?

Ra: I am Ra. This query is not particularly simple to answer due to the transdimensional nature, not only of space/time to time/space, but from density to density. The time/space light or fifth-density body is used while the space/time fifth-density body remains in fifth density. The assumption that the consciousness is projected thereby is correct. The assumption that this conscious vehicle attached to the space/time fifth-density physical complex is that vehicle which works in this particular service is correct.

So you see, the "time/space" body is the consciousness, or "conscious vehicle" of any given density. The indigo body, in time/space, is the consciousness, or thought-form body, of the Higher Self. A time/space body is the "shell of intelligence" occupying that vibratory level.

47.14
Questioner: Well then, does orange-ray activation after death occur very frequently with this planet?

Ra: I am Ra. Quite infrequently, due to the fact that this particular manifestation is without will. Occasionally an other-self will so demand the form of the one passing through the physical death that some semblance of the being will remain. This is orange ray. This is rare, for normally if one entity desires another enough to call it, the entity will have the corresponding desire to be called. Thus the manifestation would be the shell of yellow ray.

So, to go back to your original question, when your 3rd density body dies, your 3rd density consciousness exists in a discarnate state in a series of "energy shells" of consciousness. The indigo body contains the lower bodies within it. You are a portion of your Higher Self, in other-words. An analogy would be like the organs in your physical body. You are like the liver, and the Higher Self is like the body as a whole. You are doing your liver stuff, and the Higher Self is doing its "whole body" stuff. The liver rests within the body (barring untoward circumstance haha )

So to summarize. 3rd density consciousness resides in 3rd density time/space after death. 3rd density time/space sits in 4th density time/space. 4th density time/space sits in 5th density time/space and so on etc. A series of "inner planes" is the result. You rest within the vibratory shells of your own Higher Self.

[JustLikeYou]

You have made a very good case, anagogy, but I still have an objection. Consider the following two quotations juxtaposed:

70.11
Questioner: Would an analogy for this situation be that an individual’s Higher Self is manipulating, to some extent shall I say, the mind/body/spirit complex that is its analog to move it through the lower densities for the purposes of gaining experience and finally transferring that experience or amalgamating it in mid-sixth-density with the Higher Self?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The Higher Self does not manipulate its past selves. It protects when possible and guides when asked, but the force of free will is paramount. The seeming contradictions of determinism and free will melt when it is accepted that there is such a thing as true simultaneity. The Higher Self is the end result of all the development experienced by the mind/body/spirit complex to that point.

66.14
Questioner: Would you explain that last comment about the configuration in time/space?

Ra: I am Ra. Healing is done in the time/space portion of the mind/body/spirit complex, is adopted by the form-making or etheric body, and is then given to the space/time physical illusion for use in the activated yellow-ray mind/body/spirit complex. It is the adoption of the configuration which you call health by the etheric body in time/space which is the key to what you call health, not any event which occurs in space/time. In this process you may see the transdimensional aspect of what you call will, for it is the will, the seeking, the desire of the entity which causes the indigo body to use the novel configuration and to reform the body which exists in space/time. This is done in an instant and may be said to operate without regard to time. We may note that in the healing of very young children there is often an apparent healing by the healer in which the young entity has no part. This is never so, for the mind/body/spirit complex in time/space is always capable of willing the distortions it chooses for experience no matter what the apparent age, as you call it, of the entity.

In the case of the Higher Self, it appears that the purpose is to guide and protect, but to preserve the creative free-will of the "past selves." Conversely, in the case of the form-maker which, in 51.10, is described as the Logos "in microcosm," the purpose appears to be to literally make the highest-level decisions for the self, to choose what kind of reality will be created. Again, there seems to be a very sharp distinction between the two: the Higher Self preserves the free will of the form-maker.

[anagogy]

You have made a very good case, anagogy, but I still have an objection. Consider the following two quotations juxtaposed:

70.11
Questioner: Would an analogy for this situation be that an individual’s Higher Self is manipulating, to some extent shall I say, the mind/body/spirit complex that is its analog to move it through the lower densities for the purposes of gaining experience and finally transferring that experience or amalgamating it in mid-sixth-density with the Higher Self?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The Higher Self does not manipulate its past selves. It protects when possible and guides when asked, but the force of free will is paramount. The seeming contradictions of determinism and free will melt when it is accepted that there is such a thing as true simultaneity. The Higher Self is the end result of all the development experienced by the mind/body/spirit complex to that point.

66.14
Questioner: Would you explain that last comment about the configuration in time/space?

Ra: I am Ra. Healing is done in the time/space portion of the mind/body/spirit complex, is adopted by the form-making or etheric body, and is then given to the space/time physical illusion for use in the activated yellow-ray mind/body/spirit complex. It is the adoption of the configuration which you call health by the etheric body in time/space which is the key to what you call health, not any event which occurs in space/time. In this process you may see the transdimensional aspect of what you call will, for it is the will, the seeking, the desire of the entity which causes the indigo body to use the novel configuration and to reform the body which exists in space/time. This is done in an instant and may be said to operate without regard to time. We may note that in the healing of very young children there is often an apparent healing by the healer in which the young entity has no part. This is never so, for the mind/body/spirit complex in time/space is always capable of willing the distortions it chooses for experience no matter what the apparent age, as you call it, of the entity.

In the case of the Higher Self, it appears that the purpose is to guide and protect, but to preserve the creative free-will of the "past selves." Conversely, in the case of the form-maker which, in 51.10, is described as the Logos "in microcosm," the purpose appears to be to literally make the highest-level decisions for the self, to choose what kind of reality will be created. Again, there seems to be a very sharp distinction between the two: the Higher Self preserves the free will of the form-maker.

The way I see it is, essentially, that the form-maker, or Higher Self (in my opinion), is just filling in the "gaps" that the "lower self" cannot. As it says in the quote it is the desire of the entity, rather than the microcosmic logos, that causes the indigo body to use its shaping powers. It is not making any decisions (except where the lower self is not capable of choosing) for the lower self really, in my view, but rather, it is simply implementing them, at the desire of the lower self, as the lower self is not yet magically adept enough to do it for itself.

The force of free will is paramount, after all.

[JustLikeYou]

But even this conception is out of synch with the very definition of the Logos, as Ra gives it: the Logos is the Creative Principle. It is the central point which self-defines through self-exploration. It is the Intelligent Energy which focuses and channels the Intelligent Infinity of the Self -- which must be the "entity" in this context -- into a creative engine. The Higher Self, however, is described as protecting and guiding, not shaping.

I simply cannot see how the two can be identified as one without either stripping the creative power of the form maker or transforming the Higher Self into the Significant Self (the self which chooses).

However, I just found these two quotations:

70.14
Questioner: Oh yes. Sorry about that. It slipped my mind. Now, if a positive entity is displaced to negative time/space I understand that the Higher Self is reluctant to enter the negative time/space. For some reason it makes it necessary for the mind/body/spirit complex to incarnate in negative space/time. Why is it necessary for this incarnation in negative space/time?

Ra: I am Ra. Firstly, let us remove the concept of reluctance from the equation and then secondly, address your query more to the point. Each time/space is an analog of a particular sort or vibration of space/time. When a negative time/space is entered by an entity the next experience will be that of the appropriate space/time. This is normally done by the form-making body of a mind/body/spirit complex which places the entity in the proper time/space for incarnation.

75.36
Questioner: How does the use of the magical ritual invoking the magical personality aid the mind/body/spirit complex totality? Could you expand on the answer that you gave in the last session with respect to that?

Ra: I am Ra. When the magical personality is properly and efficaciously invoked the self has invoked its Higher Self. Thus a bridge betwixt space/time and time/space is made and the sixth-density magical personality experiences directly the third-density catalyst for the duration of the working. It is most central to deliberately take off the magical personality after the working in order that the Higher Self resume its appropriate configuration as analog to the space/time mind/body/spirit.

One can very clearly interpret from these two quotations that the form maker and the Higher Self are one and the same. I'll reflect on this and come back to it another day.

[Adonai One]

Excellent thread. Thank you all for this wisdom. I, too, have a lot to contemplate.

[Ankh]

Right now I am more prone to think that the sixth density Higher Self is not the third density indigo-ray body or the form-maker, because of this quote:

Entrance into incarnation requires the investment or activation of the indigo-ray or etheric body for this is the form maker.

Higher Self doesn't require an investment or activation, cause it is always active...?

There is also this quote:

In this immobile space the entity has been placed by the form-maker and higher self so that it may be in the proper configuration for learn/teaching that which it has received in the space/time incarnation.

Note that Ra says form-maker AND higher self in the above quote, which I interpret as BOTH, not as in: higher self or form-maker, used synonymously.

But continue your discussion. It is very intersting!

[JustLikeYou]

Now THAT helps, Ankh. 71.6 says it clear as day. Thank you.

Also, just for added clarity: normally when Ra is using words synonymously as in the context of 71.6, they will use the conjunction "or" rather than "and." For example:

27.12
This must be defined against the background of intelligent infinity or unity or the One Creator with the primal distortion of free will.

I also found this quotation, which strongly suggests the sub-density architecture I proposed:

48.7
In harvest the entity will then transfer its indigo body into violet-ray manifestation as seen in true-color yellow. This is for the purpose of gauging the harvestability of the entity.

Here we have reference to the color bodies within the context of "true color yellow," that is, third density.

[anagogy]

Right now I am more prone to think that the sixth density Higher Self is not the third density indigo-ray body or the form-maker, because of this quote:

Entrance into incarnation requires the investment or activation of the indigo-ray or etheric body for this is the form maker.

Higher Self doesn't require an investment or activation, cause it is always active...?

Well, technically, in time/space all bodies are in potentiation, so no the Higher Self itself doesn't need to be activated. Space/time bodies are activated or not activated. Manifest or not manifest.

So in my eyes, whenever Ra talks of some kind of "activation" or "investment", I usually interpret that as some sort of space/time investiture. The etheric body or form-maker in space/time is the physical light body of the Higher Self. Remember that time/space doesn't possess the properties of dynamic motion, so to more effectively act on space/time, it must don a space/time body -- the form-maker.

There is also this quote:

In this immobile space the entity has been placed by the form-maker and higher self so that it may be in the proper configuration for learn/teaching that which it has received in the space/time incarnation.

Note that Ra says form-maker AND higher self in the above quote, which I interpret as BOTH, not as in: higher self or form-maker, used synonymously.

And see, I always interpreted that quote to imply they were two sides of the same coin. The same thing in other-words. I've always seen the Higher Self as the time/space component of the space/time form-maker. Though, in certain contexts, described earlier in the thread, Ra refers to a time/space form-maker or etheric body, which in my understanding is synonymous with the time/space analog personality, or Higher Self.

But continue your discussion. It is very intersting!

Now THAT helps, Ankh. 71.6 says it clear as day. Thank you.

Also, just for added clarity: normally when Ra is using words synonymously as in the context of 71.6, they will use the conjunction "or" rather than "and."

This hasn't been my personal experience, but then I interpret a lot of quotes differently than some people do.

For example:

42.12 Questioner: In the last session you said, “that when the self is conscious to a great enough extent of the workings of the catalyst of fasting, and the techniques of programming, it then may through concentration of the will and the faculty of faith alone cause reprogramming without the analogy of fasting, diet, or other analogous bodily complex disciplines.” What are the techniques of programming which the Higher Self uses to insure that the desired lessons are learned or attempted by the third-density self?

Ra: I am Ra. There is but one technique for this growing or nurturing of will and faith, and that is the focusing of the attention. The attention span of those you call children is considered short. The spiritual attention span of most of your peoples is that of the child. Thus it is a matter of wishing to become able to collect one’s attention and hold it upon the desired programming.

This, when continued, strengthens the will. The entire activity can only occur when there exists faith that an outcome of this discipline is possible.

Now many people might interpret this particular quote to mean that will and faith are different things. I, personally, do not. Especially interesting when you look at Ra's explanation of how to grow both at the same time: the focusing of the intention, which appears to simply be an act of will. I think it is most likely that many concepts in the spiritual universe are simply not adequately delineated by the English language, and that will and faith are two sides of the same coin.

Similarly, I see the previous mentioned quote regarding the form-maker and higher self as describing two functions of the same fundamental thing. One a time/space function, the other, a space/time function.

I also found this quotation, which strongly suggests the sub-density architecture I proposed:

48.7
In harvest the entity will then transfer its indigo body into violet-ray manifestation as seen in true-color yellow. This is for the purpose of gauging the harvestability of the entity.

Here we have reference to the color bodies within the context of "true color yellow," that is, third density.

Yet another example of something I interpret completely differently.

I interpret that quote to mean that in harvest a merging occurs where the mind/body/spirit complex, in vibrational harmony or attunement with its higher body, the Higher Self, then moves into communion or dialog with the mind/body/spirit complex totality in order to appraise the harvestability of its yellow ray analog into 4th density. When it says,"as in true color yellow", that simply means to me they are appraising the violet ray, or total beingness, of the true color yellow entity. This is most effectively done by the totality complex, since it knows the entire being in its completeness of learning necessary for graduation.

In each density, there is in fact a sub-density color architecture, and these sub-colors do correlate with higher densities. For example, the indigo ray, in true color yellow, is the portion of sixth density light or expression that can express itself in true color yellow, or 3rd density. As another example, the amount of "blue ray" that can be expressed within the confines of the 3rd density reality parameters, is different than the amount of blue ray that can be expressed in higher densities. We are bound by the limit of our viewpoints. Being in a 3rd density environment or reality creates a lot of filters for the universal light.

Having said all this, I'm only interested in the truth here, and not terribly invested in any density/plane architecture. These are just where my sincere interpretations of the material have taken me, and I still feel the evidence, quote wise, is in favor of the idea that the form-maker and higher self are one and the same. But I greatly respect the ideas and concepts presented nonetheless. It is all excellent food for thought.

[JustLikeYou]

Well, technically, in time/space all bodies are in potentiation, so no the Higher Self itself doesn't need to be activated.

In the context of the Ra Material, to be in potentiation is to be not yet activated. At least, this is how the word is used by both Ra and Don.

Remember that time/space doesn't possess the properties of dynamic motion, so to more effectively act on space/time, it must don a space/time body -- the form-maker.

The Yellow-Ray body is equal to the space/time illusion. The form-maker is therefore never manifest in space/time, but only in time/space -- so also for the astral and light bodies. This fact is easily demonstrated in experience. The only way to use these bodies is to move one's consciousness to the inner (i.e. time/space) planes.

This hasn't been my personal experience, but then I interpret a lot of quotes differently than some people do.

There is a definite logical content to the words "or" and "and." In the context of a list, "or" always indicates that one may be exchanged for another. "And," on the other hand, indicates an addition or compounding of more than one thing. You may interpret how you like, but Ra is usually quite careful with their word choice. Usually.

In each density, there is in fact a sub-density color architecture, and these sub-colors do correlate with higher densities. For example, the indigo ray, in true color yellow, is the portion of sixth density light or expression that can express itself in true color yellow, or 3rd density.

This is an interesting idea, but I see it nowhere supported in the material. Rather, the sub-densities are described as subdivisions of the density proper, suggesting that the indigo ray within true color yellow is a recapitulation of true color indigo, but on a smaller scale and not identical. By analogy, Ra emphasizes that the microcosm of love (the 4d vibration) is distinct and different from the macrocosm of Love (the Logos).

I'm only interested in the truth here

Then may the truth find you rapidly.

[anagogy]

In the context of the Ra Material, to be in potentiation is to be not yet activated. At least, this is how the word is used by both Ra and Don.

Not yet activated.........in space/time, correct. Time/space is another matter entirely, however. All bodies in time/space are "activated", so to speak, from my perspective. It's a stream or continuum of consciousness that stretches through time. Potential and actual have a different meaning in time/space though I can't think up any good quotes to make this particular case at this time (maybe I'm just lazy though).

The Yellow-Ray body is equal to the space/time illusion. The form-maker is therefore never manifest in space/time, but only in time/space -- so also for the astral and light bodies. This fact is easily demonstrated in experience. The only way to use these bodies is to move one's consciousness to the inner (i.e. time/space) planes.

Alright.

I'm going to approach this from another angle.

Take a look at the following quote regarding the bodies we have:

47.8 Questioner: In our esoteric literature numerous bodies are listed. I have listed here the physical body, the etheric, the emotional, the astral. Can you tell me if this listing is the proper number, and can you tell me the uses and purposes and effects etc. of each of these and any other bodies that may be in our mind/body/spirit complex?

Ra: I am Ra. To answer your query fully would be the work of many sessions such as this one, for the interrelationships of the various bodies and each body’s effects in various situations is an enormous study. However, we shall begin by referring your minds back to the spectrum of true colors and the usage of this understanding in grasping the various densities of your octave.

We have the number seven repeated from the macrocosm to the microcosm in structure and experience. Therefore, it would only be expected that there would be seven basic bodies which we would perhaps be most lucid by stating as red-ray body, etc. However, we are aware that you wish to correspond these bodies mentioned with the color rays. This will be confusing, for various teachers have offered their teach/learning understanding in various terms. Thus one may name a subtle body one thing and another find a different name.

The red-ray body is your chemical body. However, it is not the body which you have as clothing in the physical. It is the unconstructed material of the body, the elemental body without form. This basic unformed material body is important to understand for there are healings which may be carried out by the simple understanding of the elements present in the physical vehicle.

The orange-ray body is the physical body complex. This body complex is still not the body you inhabit but rather the body formed without self-awareness, the body in the womb before the spirit/mind complex enters. This body may live without the inhabitation of the mind and spirit complexes. However, it seldom does so.

The yellow-ray body is your physical vehicle which you know of at this time and in which you experience catalyst. This body has the mind/body/spirit characteristics and is equal to the physical illusion, as you have called it.

The green-ray body is that body which may be seen in séance when what you call ectoplasm is furnished. This is a lighter body packed more densely with life. You may call this the astral body following some other teachings. Others have called this same body the etheric body. However, this is not correct in the sense that the etheric body is that body of gateway wherein intelligent energy is able to mold the mind/body/spirit complex.

The light body or blue-ray body may be called the devachanic body. There are many other names for this body especially in your so-called Indian Sutras or writings, for there are those among these peoples which have explored these regions and understand the various types of devachanic bodies. There are many, many types of bodies in each density, much like your own.

The indigo-ray body which we choose to call the etheric body is, as we have said, the gateway body. In this body form is substance and you may only see this body as that of light as it may mold itself as it desires.

The violet-ray body may perhaps be understood as what you might call the Buddha body or that body which is complete.

Each of these bodies has an effect upon your mind/body/spirit complex in your life beingness. The interrelationships, as we have said, are many and complex.

Perhaps one suggestion that may be indicated is this: The indigo-ray body may be used by the healer once the healer becomes able to place its consciousness in this etheric state. The violet-ray or Buddhic body is of equal efficacy to the healer for within it lies a sense of wholeness which is extremely close to unity with all that there is. These bodies are part of each entity and the proper use of them and understanding of them is, though far advanced from the standpoint of third-density harvest, nevertheless useful to the adept.

******

Now, please notice that Ra states that we have only seven basic bodies. Not seven for each density. That would make 49 bodies. There are an infinity of planes, but not an infinity of bodies.

Furthermore, notice how the first three bodies described are obviously the 1st density body, the 2nd density body, and the 3rd density body respectively. Also, take notice that Ra makes no mention whatsoever of these being time/space bodies, and the first three described we know , for a fact, are physical space/time bodies.

Now, if it is logical that our first density consciousness is the pilot of our 1st density bodies, and our 2nd density consciousness is the pilot of our 2nd density bodies, and our 3rd density consciousness is the pilot of our 3rd density bodies, then wouldn't it *ALSO* stand to reason, and be perfectly logical that the other bodies listed correspond to the remaining densities?

[emphatic gesture towards remaining bodies*]

And wouldn't it just make supreme sense that our sixth-density consciousness (a.k.a. the Higher Self) would be the pilot of our sixth-density etheric form-maker body?

Please, consider this carefully. And let me know your thoughts.

*****

[JustLikeYou]

You've given me some food for thought, anagogy. This is always appreciated. I see the logic of associating bodies with densities and I appreciate it. I've returned with something halfway between what the two of us have been saying until now.

So in your interpretation, there is still this problematic quotation:

47.11
The first body which activates itself upon death is the “form-maker” or the indigo-ray body. This body remains — you have called it the “ka” — until etherea has been penetrated and understanding has been gained by the mind/body/spirit totality. Once this is achieved, if the proper body to be activated is green-ray, then this will occur.

You have your own interpretation of this statement, but what is important is that we preserve the meaning of the word "activate" so that it is consistent regardless of which body is named as being activated.

Since we are speaking of the experience of an entity upon death, it doesn't make sense to say that activated means taking a space/time manifestation.

So let's suppose that each color body vibrates in the density of its color. As you've mentioned, this is obvious for red, orange and yellow. The trouble with the higher bodies is that we don't know what a physical illusion looks like in higher densities, so it's no longer obvious. I'll grant you that we only ever have these seven bodies, no matter which density we are in. Considering the first three, this makes sense. However, let us also suppose that each density is constructed such that the physical illusion includes only the bodies through the true color of that illusion, so there is no possibility, in third density, of there being a physical green-ray body. Each of these bodies exists within me in potentiation, but most of them are not active at any given time. BUT, if I activate the green-ray body, then it still does not exist within the physical illusion; rather, it exists as the vehicle of my consciousness -- in time/space. In this sense, activation merely means "consciously dwelling within." This interpretation would explain the seemingly anomalous usage of the word "activate" in reference to the indigo-ray body.

In this interpretation, all of the bodies remain the same throughout the densities, but the physical illusion which may be experienced drastically changes as I move through the densities. The indigo-ray body, then, is a tool which shapes the illusion, but it cannot be brought into the illusion until such a potent body can be appreciated.

In this interpretation, the indigo-ray body is not the sixth density self. It is the body which is physically manifest in the sixth density illusion, but it is still the present self, and not the future self.

I would also add that the Higher Self is not equal to the sixth density self. It is a special case of the sixth density self. It is a vehicle given to the sixth density self by the seventh density self in order that the sixth density self may assist its past selves. So even if the form maker were the sixth density self, it would still be distinct from the Higher Self. The Higher Self can then be viewed as the time/space analog of the space/time self only while the entity is incarnate. When the entity is no longer incarnate, there is no analog to be had because the self is a time/space self. The analogues, then, would be the entity which has free will and consciousness. While incarnate, the space/time self is the locus of consciousness and free will, leaving the other bodies (including the form maker) in potentiation, so the only self which can take up conscious residence in time/space is the future self, the Higher Self. This would explain how during meditation one can use a higher body (perhaps even the form maker) to meet with the Higher Self, each seeming to have a unique consciousness.

I am happy with this interpretation. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to arrive at it.

[anagogy]

You've given me some food for thought, anagogy. This is always appreciated. I see the logic of associating bodies with densities and I appreciate it. I've returned with something halfway between what the two of us have been saying until now.

So in your interpretation, there is still this problematic quotation:

47.11
The first body which activates itself upon death is the “form-maker” or the indigo-ray body. This body remains — you have called it the “ka” — until etherea has been penetrated and understanding has been gained by the mind/body/spirit totality. Once this is achieved, if the proper body to be activated is green-ray, then this will occur.

You have your own interpretation of this statement, but what is important is that we preserve the meaning of the word "activate" so that it is consistent regardless of which body is named as being activated.

Since we are speaking of the experience of an entity upon death, it doesn't make sense to say that activated means taking a space/time manifestation.

From my perspective, it still makes sense as the newly discarnate being is still very close to space/time, vibrationally speaking. Hence the reason why some souls at death become ghosts, a portion of their physically manifest yellow ray doesn't get deactivated (usually due to trauma or extreme concern for those left behind). Whenever the Higher Self needs to interact with space/time in any way whatsoever it must do so from the form-maker. Naturally, the termination of an incarnation is a situation that is closely watched over, thus necessitating the careful guidance of the form-maker.

I don't have any proof for this, so its just my gut instinct/opinion.

So let's suppose that each color body vibrates in the density of its color. As you've mentioned, this is obvious for red, orange and yellow. The trouble with the higher bodies is that we don't know what a physical illusion looks like in higher densities, so it's no longer obvious. I'll grant you that we only ever have these seven bodies, no matter which density we are in. Considering the first three, this makes sense. However, let us also suppose that each density is constructed such that the physical illusion includes only the bodies through the true color of that illusion, so there is no possibility, in third density, of there being a physical green-ray body. Each of these bodies exists within me in potentiation, but most of them are not active at any given time. BUT, if I activate the green-ray body, then it still does not exist within the physical illusion; rather, it exists as the vehicle of my consciousness -- in time/space. In this sense, activation merely means "consciously dwelling within." This interpretation would explain the seemingly anomalous usage of the word "activate" in reference to the indigo-ray body.

I will concede to the possibility that Ra could be using the word in this fashion on occasion.

In this interpretation, all of the bodies remain the same throughout the densities, but the physical illusion which may be experienced drastically changes as I move through the densities. The indigo-ray body, then, is a tool which shapes the illusion, but it cannot be brought into the illusion until such a potent body can be appreciated.

In this interpretation, the indigo-ray body is not the sixth density self. It is the body which is physically manifest in the sixth density illusion, but it is still the present self, and not the future self.

This concept, that we have an undeveloped sixth density physical self at this current space/time is not one that I personally subscribe to, but each to their own. I would agree with the idea that we express or channel time/space indigo energies or aspects from time to time. Faith would be an example of this.

In time/space, I see us as having all bodies, ethereally. But this is because in time/space all times are simultaneous. So the entire evolution of our minds is laid out as one long continuum of experience, a portion of this continuum being the consciousness we identify with currently, with its true color vibration (or state of development).

I would also add that the Higher Self is not equal to the sixth density self. It is a special case of the sixth density self. It is a vehicle given to the sixth density self by the seventh density self in order that the sixth density self may assist its past selves. So even if the form maker were the sixth density self, it would still be distinct from the Higher Self. The Higher Self can then be viewed as the time/space analog of the space/time self only while the entity is incarnate. When the entity is no longer incarnate, there is no analog to be had because the self is a time/space self. The analogues, then, would be the entity which has free will and consciousness. While incarnate, the space/time self is the locus of consciousness and free will, leaving the other bodies (including the form maker) in potentiation, so the only self which can take up conscious residence in time/space is the future self, the Higher Self. This would explain how during meditation one can use a higher body (perhaps even the form maker) to meet with the Higher Self, each seeming to have a unique consciousness.

In my view, we have many "higher-selves". These would just be future versions of our consciousness, at whatever stage of conscious evolution they have achieved. As I understand it, though, contact with these selves is mostly prevented by the law of free-will/confusion. This is the anomaly of the Higher Self, which a projection of the mind/body/spirit beingness totality, as it isn't prevented from contacting us during the discarnate portion of death/rebirth cycle. But then, it also is not allowed to know our future, so that is why it isn't breaking the law of confusion (in my opinion).

And from my perspective, when we become adepts and are able to place our consciousness in these other bodies, this process is akin to "putting on the magical personality". In essence, we clothe our less developed consciousness in the more developed consciousness of one of our higher selves. These are the time/space "bodies" in my view, or, that is to say, the conscious mental vehicle of any given true color locus. This takes cooperation from both sides, and allows whichever self this constitutes to expand the consciousness of the lower self temporarily. As Ra says: "[...] the time/space mind/body/spirit analog, which is evoked as the magical personality, has its only opportunity to gain rapidly from the experience of the catalytic action available to the third-density space/time mind/body/spirit. Thus the adept is aiding the Creator greatly by offering great catalyst to a greater portion of the creation which is identified as the mind/body/spirit totality of an entity."

I am happy with this interpretation. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to arrive at it.

Thankyou for sharing your thoughts. We have different perspectives, but I always find this exchange of understanding enlightening.

[JustLikeYou]

This concept, that we have an undeveloped sixth density physical self at this current space/time is not one that I personally subscribe to, but each to their own.

The "current" can only be a time/space. This is because the word "current" is a temporal term. It is important to keep in mine Ra's manner of speaking about the two poles of any polarity when considering either time/space or space/time. "Teach/learn" is Ra's way of saying "teach," so "time/space" is Ra's way of saying "time." The purpose of this particular idiom is to emphasize the paradoxical relationship between any given polarity, depicted quite well in the taijitu (yin/yang) symbol.

In time/space, I see us as having all bodies, ethereally. But this is because in time/space all times are simultaneous. So the entire evolution of our minds is laid out as one long continuum of experience, a portion of this continuum being the consciousness we identify with currently, with its true color vibration (or state of development).

In space/time, all places exist simultaneously. But as you scan the panorama of your physical surroundings, are you capable of seeing all space? In space/time, you can see the physical illusion vividly and with great detail, but only a tiny portion of it. There is no perspective on Earth which allows you to see all of space, and even if you could see all of space, it would largely be a tiny twinkling, giving no notion of the true infinity and variety which is contained therein.

So, while all times are laid out before you in time/space, the only ones you have a detailed perspective of are the local -- proximate past, proximate future, and the relevant alternate possibilities. Sixth density, from this perspective, would be a twinkling star.

And from my perspective, when we become adepts and are able to place our consciousness in these other bodies, this process is akin to "putting on the magical personality". In essence, we clothe our less developed consciousness in the more developed consciousness of one of our higher selves. These are the time/space "bodies" in my view, or, that is to say, the conscious mental vehicle of any given true color locus.

You're equating two distinct processes. Having practiced some of what you are describing, I am aware of the purposes and mechanisms involved. The purpose of donning the magical personality, as you have observed, is to temporarily manifest a perfected consciousness so that the working may be more successful (and less dangerous, too). And while, in practice, this often occurs prior to the decision to travel through the inner planes, it is not a necessary precursor to doing so. The bodies occupied in those inner planes are each appropriate to their own plane. It is interesting that you, yourself, admit that donning the magical personality is a "consciousness" shift, and not a body shift. This is quite telling.

Consider this point: if the path of experience through this Octave is one of progressive evolution of the mind/body/spirit complex from red to violet, does it not stand to reason that all seven bodies (i.e. the body complex) would be undeveloped in the early densities and well developed in the later ones?

[anagogy]

In space/time, all places exist simultaneously. But as you scan the panorama of your physical surroundings, are you capable of seeing all space? In space/time, you can see the physical illusion vividly and with great detail, but only a tiny portion of it. There is no perspective on Earth which allows you to see all of space, and even if you could see all of space, it would largely be a tiny twinkling, giving no notion of the true infinity and variety which is contained therein.

So, while all times are laid out before you in time/space, the only ones you have a detailed perspective of are the local -- proximate past, proximate future, and the relevant alternate possibilities. Sixth density, from this perspective, would be a twinkling star.

I agree with this, and that was part of my point.

You're equating two distinct processes. Having practiced some of what you are describing, I am aware of the purposes and mechanisms involved. The purpose of donning the magical personality, as you have observed, is to temporarily manifest a perfected consciousness so that the working may be more successful (and less dangerous, too). And while, in practice, this often occurs prior to the decision to travel through the inner planes, it is not a necessary precursor to doing so. The bodies occupied in those inner planes are each appropriate to their own plane. It is interesting that you, yourself, admit that donning the magical personality is a "consciousness" shift, and not a body shift. This is quite telling.

I'm not sure what you think it's "telling", but the reason that it is a consciousness shift is because the bodies, in time/space, that you are "shifting into" are not "bodies" as we are familiar with the term "bodies". They are not material. They are not made of matter. They are ethereal. They are subtle thought-form bodies -- consciousness forms.

Consider this point: if the path of experience through this Octave is one of progressive evolution of the mind/body/spirit complex from red to violet, does it not stand to reason that all seven bodies (i.e. the body complex) would be undeveloped in the early densities and well developed in the later ones?

If you are referring to space/time, the higher bodies do not exist yet.

If you are talking about time/space, the higher bodies exist in potential, which, in time/space is real enough. Time/space is similar to a probability field. Space/time is similar to a crystallization of this probability field. So the roads that consciousness may potentially travel down already exist, and are laid out in time/space. These are the planes of consciousness. The bodies of consciousness are the conscious identification with portions of these true color spectrums.

Over the course of a souls evolution, they became more able to channel these higher frequencies of energy, and eventually they become comfortable with whatever level of streaming that is, and that determines which time/space body they occupy, which, in turn determines which space/time body they incarnate into, as the space/time body will be an analog of their time/space body.

[zenmaster]

I had a previous thread that was involved with this but I decided to narrow the subject matter down even further. We go to the indigo-ray body at death. Is the indigo-ray not within the same purview as 6th density?

"The rays, as you understand them, have such a different meaning in the next density and the next and so forth that we must answer your query in the negative. "

Do we not exist in 6th density form in between incarnations?

If you have awareness of 6th density.

What limitations exist in preincarnative indigo-ray versus true 6th density?

The limitations are those from the native (true-color core vibration) mind/body/spirit-complex density. "The entity, before incarnation, dwells in the appropriate, shall we say, place in time/space. The true color type of this location will be dependent upon the entity’s needs. Those entities, for instance which, being Wanderers, have the green, blue, or indigo true-color core of mind/body/spirit complex will have rested therein."

[Ankh]

Channeling JustLikeYou now: THAT was helpful, zenmaster. This made it as clear as the day for me now. Thank you.

[Adonai One]

Channeling JustLikeYou now: THAT was helpful, zenmaster. This made it as clear as the day for me now. Thank you.

Zenmaster's answer was rather Zen.

[Ankh]

Zenmaster's answer was rather Zen.

What do you mean? You didn't get it?

[JustLikeYou]

Thank you zenmaster. I love it when someone can find the quotations I need but can't remember.

In my view, this subject is resolved.

[Adonai One]

Zenmaster's answer was rather Zen.

What do you mean? You didn't get it?

Quite the opposite. Zen, to me at least, means simple.

[anagogy]

"The rays, as you understand them, have such a different meaning in the next density and the next and so forth that we must answer your query in the negative. "

So Zen, if you would allow me to pick your thoughts on this particular Ra quote, what sort of changes in meaning do you think a ray takes on in another density? I'm curious as to the pattern of change a ray takes on as density level increases. I have my own thoughts on this, but would be most interested to hear yours.

The limitations are those from the native (true-color core vibration) mind/body/spirit-complex density. "The entity, before incarnation, dwells in the appropriate, shall we say, place in time/space. The true color type of this location will be dependent upon the entity’s needs. Those entities, for instance which, being Wanderers, have the green, blue, or indigo true-color core of mind/body/spirit complex will have rested therein."

Which makes perfect sense, as a wanderer is a being of higher density, so naturally they would dwell before incarnation in the time/space of the true color density they hail from.

[zenmaster]

"The rays, as you understand them, have such a different meaning in the next density and the next and so forth that we must answer your query in the negative. "

So Zen, if you would allow me to pick your thoughts on this particular Ra quote, what sort of changes in meaning do you think a ray takes on in another density? I'm curious as to the pattern of change a ray takes on as density level increases. I have my own thoughts on this, but would be most interested to hear yours.

I am interested in this as well. Starting with 1st density, if there are 7 major subdensities, what each subdensity provides, vibrationally, for patterns of expression. That is, patterns for both space/time and time/space phenomena. So that identification would be a type of physics, including that which is nonlocal.

Then moving on to 2nd density where the concept of "mind" functions in a more familiar manifestation and "life" has its freedom of expression, you'd have a higher density component controlling/influencing a lower density component.

I guess each "ray", or vibrational range, would seem to include (due to subsuming) all of the lower densities in potential expression of frequency. There are patterns of body, then mind/body, then mind/body/spirit through to the end of the octave.

As for an individual ray, there would be a harmonic which would mean some kind of analog at work, but if you didn't understand the higher-order, or less-distorted, patterns possible with that higher-density vibration then any correspondence to the lower would be speculative. Since we don't understand 1st (or of course 2nd or 3rd) density to any meaningful extent, there is not much to say really.

[Confused]

Zenmaster's answer was rather Zen.

I think Zenmaster is rather very particular about preserving free will in teaching/learning, at all costs!

73.13 Questioner: What was the orientation with respect to this type of communication for the one known as Jesus of Nazareth?

Ra: I am Ra. You may have read some of this entity’s workings. It offered itself as teacher to those mind/body/spirit complexes which gathered to hear and even then spoke as through a veil so as to leave room for those not wishing to hear. When this entity was asked to heal, it oft times did so, always ending the working with two admonitions: firstly, that the entity healed had been healed by its faith, that is, its ability to allow and accept changes through the violet ray into the gateway of intelligent energy; secondly, saying always, “Tell no one.” These are the workings which attempt a maximal quality of free will while maintaining fidelity to the positive purity of the working.

Way to go, Zenmaster!