People should be able to decipher the truth for themselves.

[Adonai One]

Not one person, not one organization should be the one to dictate truth and where it may come from.

If they do it one within their own house and property, then let it be established that the house is not one of equals but one where all stand under the few; Where the will of many is subservent to the few; Let it be named a place of authority and a lack of freewill.

If this thread is deleted, may my words echo.

You may be the decider of your own truth. The choice is yours.

[zenmaster]

You may be the decider of your own truth. The choice is yours.

Thanks for the permission.

[Adonai One]

You may be the decider of your own truth. The choice is yours.

Thanks for the permission.

I may reak of hypocrisy -- so be it. My words may be only ones of preference but my mere preference shall be voiced in hopes that it represents the will of others; So that they too may be heard.

[Unbound]

I hope nobody minds me using their toothbrush to clean my toilet.

[Adonai One]

I hope nobody minds me using their toothbrush to clean my toilet.

Great, now I am being made out as a left-wing anarchist.

If a community wants to be one of authority, so be it. That is what I have made clear. However, if the community was formed with principles that all things are loved and that freewill will be respected... then it is a fraud to call it a community of equals if these principles are abridged.

If it does not intend to be, so be it. However, some portion of that community may want it to be one of equals.

[Unbound]

Ahaha! No no, I am not saying any such thing about you. In fact I don't disagree that there should be freedom of information and sharing, and anyone should have the chance to discern for themselves. That is very true, I agree.

My point is that equality works on all levels. Everyone's gotta clean their toilet, but nobody wants a shitty toothbrush.

Right now, I see a battle over toothbrushes.

---

Really, this encompasses a much larger situation than what you have been experiencing. This same argument has been raging probably since before I ever joined this site two years ago and it has been tossed back and forth endlessly and compromises have been made and all sorts of things.

I have just been watching the power struggle for "freedom" as passions and personalities come out.

To me, I find it interesting that this forum seems to continue to attract similar catalyst, so maybe this is exactly what this forum needs. I have seen members come and go through the storm of this discussion and I just wonder what the next phase will look like.

Rest assured, I do not think you are a left winged anarchist or really have any form of political or ideological label for you. You're Frank, expressing Frank, and that is its own thing.

[Jade]

I was considering maybe posting this in the motivational poster thread but I think I'll just leave it here.

[vervex]

My point is that equality works on all levels. Everyone's gotta clean their toilet, but nobody wants a shitty toothbrush.

Right now, I see a battle over toothbrushes.

How about settling this issue by using a toilet brush instead of someone's toothbrush?

[Unbound]

Thank you so much for reading between the lines.

[Adonai One]

The analogy is lost on me. For my sake and the sake of others, could somebody explain this like I am 5 years old?

Much obliged.

[xise]

I think this issue is one of principles versus practice, and the pro's and con's of coming down on the side of principles, as opposed to coming down on the side of practice.

I also believe truth is in the concepts, not in the facts. The identity of a person is a fact. It is a sensory perception that is probabilistic in nature. Concepts can have inherent truth to them - such as the truth that love includes forgiveness and acceptance.

I sent a PM already to all interested parties, but I may repost it if there is interest.

[Unbound]

Ahaha I dont blame you, its a pretty abstract analogy aha

Basically, my point is that everyone is seeking, and everyone has challenges (dirty toilets) and everyone has their own pathway or journey (toothbrush) which they utilize.

No one wants to have their pathway taken over or directed by others and to do to another is an attempt to use their toothbrush to clean your own toilet. Everyone already has a toothbrush, we do not need to fight over them.

Then one may ask, what if I have so much dirt that my toothbrush is not sufficient to clean it? What if I need more scrubbing power?

Well, we can either start stealing toothbrushes, or we can seek to access the universal toilet brush (the source of all toilet cleaning) which I am going to amusingly call the macrocosm of the toothbrush.

No need to fight over toothbrushes when the toilet brush is available to all.

And that is officially one of my strangest analogies ever.

[Adonai One]

I think this issue is one of principles versus practice, and the pro's and con's of coming down on the side of principles, as opposed to coming down on the side of practice.

I also believe truth is in the concepts, not in the facts. The identity of a person is a fact. It is a sensory perception that is probabilistic in nature. Concepts can have inherent truth to them - such as the truth that love includes forgiveness and acceptance.

I sent a PM already to all interested parties, but I may repost it if there is interest.

Your POV is completely valid and accurate. Thank you for making yourself heard, Xise.

[vervex]

Ahaha I dont blame you, its a pretty abstract analogy aha

Basically, my point is that everyone is seeking, and everyone has challenges (dirty toilets) and everyone has their own pathway or journey (toothbrush) which they utilize.

No one wants to have their pathway taken over or directed by others and to do to another is an attempt to use their toothbrush to clean your own toilet. Everyone already has a toothbrush, we do not need to fight over them.

Then one may ask, what if I have so much dirt that my toothbrush is not sufficient to clean it? What if I need more scrubbing power?

Well, we can either start stealing toothbrushes, or we can seek to access the universal toilet brush (the source of all toilet cleaning) which I am going to amusingly call the macrocosm of the toothbrush.

No need to fight over toothbrushes when the toilet brush is available to all.

And that is officially one of my strangest analogies ever.

Oh god, I laughed so hard
And sorry, I could not resist. Behold, the universal toilet brush!



Alright, I'm done now, I promise

[Unbound]

Aha You have no idea how amusing it was to try and explain that analogy, I gut myself laughing aha

One of my best, I think.

[Adonai One]

So what's equivalent to using the universal toiletbrush? What solution would show that we are using said brush?

[zenmaster]

So what's equivalent to using the universal toiletbrush? What solution would show that we are using said brush?

At some point you don't need proof.

[Unbound]

Aha I am having a hard time taking myself seriously, but I would say we are using the universal brush when we release attachment to things being "our way" and also release attachment to "their way" and realize both are part of one way, one will. We neither feel opposed nor that we are opposing others.

There is no us and them, just us.

[BrownEye]

I hope nobody minds me using their toothbrush to clean my toilet.

the universal toilet brush (the source of all toilet cleaning)

Got my laugh for the night.

[Brittany]

This conversation has gone straight into the crapper.

[ChickenInSpace]

As I see this analogy, we're debating whether we should (be able to) gaze freely into the dirty toilets of others.

Having moderated some forums with rather extreme personalities I know, from experience, that respect on an individual basis is paramount. When respect is externalized to the work of moderators then the 'normalization' that ensues will inevitably infringe on someone. The debates you guys talk about are as common as rain but can, if everyone wants to, be left aside.

This requires, on the other hand, the skill of taking a deep breath and let the 'hand of protection' rest aside until actively and openly called for.

Openly? Yes, openly. PM's are shady business when comes to the 'nagging' or 'complaining'. Better off venting this directly in thread, no matter consequences.

I know some of us have been keen to point out 'Murica moralism in the frameworks; however if everyone could gaze into one anothers s*** and stay calm, we would never be having this conversation in the first place.

However, moderation to keep people on topic (f.ex.) and similar formatting is still a good thing. Not that I've seen many off topic or even perceive it as a problem on this forum but example is example =)

[Hototo]

Edit: The green ray toilet gazer is unable to stop the blue ray toilet gazer who always sees the crap in the crapper.

My stance is that all interactions on a ostensibly STO board need to be done in public when in relation to either stated policy (why something was removed, how said post can be found even after removal for reasons of verification of appropriateness of removal of content and so on.) Up to and including strongly discouraging personal messages in times of trouble as personal messages in situations like these have been and continue to be full of "STS-Wisdom" when the forum is having an issue. Or so it has been in the past.

This creates a dynamic where there is one public face, and another unknown "hidden face" where people talk to each other in terms of what STS wisdoms they have about "other selves". Instead of all being patently open.

I side strongly and unequivocally on the side of openness, it maybe significantly more difficult to do but in the past I have noticed on this and other forums that admins/mods tend to usually have one kind mask in public and then when they send PM's in relation to "administered businessess" everything from the language used to the energy of the person changes to the point that I would call double-faced or just downright "nuts".

People who say they are openly in favor of exchanging information and talking freely suddenly turn into territorial little children with the language skills and reasoning of a 5 year old. Now. This seems to be a universal attribute of giving an individual power over the rights of others to act in "immoral" ways on something that the person who does the work does not directly own/control. Since people default to their strongest point of moral clarity, which for most people is their child self. Then these actions are undertaken from that moral point of view on how the forum should be maintained, instead of the painfully non-conformist way of open dialogue and democracy in terms of "jury of your peers" and "open trials."

Now. I digress, but I must say that the system of closed forum administration done in private and this debate has gone before at least 3-4 times. Every time with the same outcome. I doubt this will be any different as this debate is seen as validation of the original stance, after all, if you weren't doing "light work" your forum wouldn't be full of "STS-Energy" that needed to be taken care of so carefully.

In a way, such a stance on moderation as is taken here will slowly, in my view at least, dehumanize and desensitize the interactions here until there is no heart element but a full jump from the 3 lower chakra's to the violet ray.

The more the posters need to walk on eggshells to avoid the adminhammer, the more the green ray will be closed and the more this place turns into "pure wisdom only". But, alas, is not my forum.

I feel it should be said in public that starting from the point of view that "since eventually STS entities will come here and wreck up the place we need defenses X" instead of "What if we have a sufficient number of always active staff members by appointing overseers that have limited (Mute:poster) powers all throughout the system and the ability to call for a disciplinary action but no more and then essentially remove the rules and force/let people use their green ray to read the other persons and posters actions live instead of relying on a pre-given and pre-agreed set of instructions that call for STS(that which closes the individual heart and opens the person up to the "higher self-violet ray" influence as they(the rules) are "specific" and "important".)

When you try to replace the decicion that happens in the now of the dialogue with a decicion that happens in the before in the board-room of L/L then you will always move away from the "In the now" towards another time.

To do as this forum is doing now, is a fundamentally unsafe decision that removes freedoms that is touted in the name of adding safety and giving more freedom.

But much like the War on Terror and its supposed "give away liberty to preserve freedom". It is a defense that stinks, and will continue to generate negative catalyst for the forum for the foreseeable future.


That being said. I don't care one way or another, other than that I feel the need to point out my stance on this issue (such as it was), and that this is greatly entertaining societal conflicts that are being generated here again and again. *munches on popcorn*

[Adonai One]

What I feel like doing:



What I'll end up doing:

[Alex Zachary]

Adonai, you need to go out more.

[spero]

What I feel like doing:

Messiah complex already jk

[GentleReckoning]

I actually think he wants to beat up Jesus. Either that or sell things in churches.

[Hototo]

Shotgun on the guy sitting in the background looking like he has to poo

[GentleReckoning]

A small change in perspective, and Jesus is giving the other guy a spanking.