Abrupt vs gradual harvest

[AnthroHeart]

Oh, I'm not so big on maintaining my physical appearance through all the densities. The form I desire is somewhat of a creature. I think we can pick what our bodies look like in 5th density on up. In 6th, you're just light, so form no longer matters. Then in 7D you're no longer incarnating into body complexes. Hopefully if I reincarnate in 4D, I'll have a body complex that I much desire. Unless we have limitations based on our DNA. I don't think I can open intelligent infinity, so I won't be able to leave 3D like that. I'll just have to die naturally. I worked so hard early on to try to transition to 4D, and I thought many times that I was in 4D. So maybe I was, even if they were simulations. They seemed very real. When I watched the movie Spirit of the Forest, it really made me feel like 4D.

In 4D aren't you the storyteller of your reality?

There is a reason to do that, but its almost always only applicable if you want to preseve your physical apperance as closely as you can to your original life plan through ALL THE DENSITIES or at least close to it.

If that specifically does not concern you then once you "grasp" what 4th density is, in reality, then you're in the clear because you can "reincarnate" to 4th density time equivelant to any point in your life before your actual "death" and then "die" from that chosen point onwards into 4th density.

Hope that helps. Anyway. ITs kind of a tricky thing this harvest/ascension question. But to me, I want to maintain a single lifeline/body as closely as possible so for me, this is a relevant thing, but for most people it would not be.

[Hototo]

Oh, I'm not so big on maintaining my physical appearance through all the densities. The form I desire is somewhat of a creature. I think we can pick what our bodies look like in 5th density on up. In 6th, you're just light, so form no longer matters. Then in 7D you're no longer incarnating into body complexes.

Correction, no longer recycling, this may sound like a minor point but is probably not.

In the seventh density there is not this particular energy exchange as it is unnecessary to recycle body complexes.

Hopefully if I reincarnate in 4D, I'll have a body complex that I much desire. Unless we have limitations based on our DNA. I don't think I can open intelligent infinity, so I won't be able to leave 3D like that. I'll just have to die naturally. I worked so hard early on to try to transition to 4D, and I thought many times that I was in 4D. So maybe I was, even if they were simulations. They seemed very real. When I watched the movie Spirit of the Forest, it really made me feel like 4D.

In 4D aren't you the storyteller of your reality?

Yes, in a larger set of other storytellers that are created by you but not you at that moment.

[AnthroHeart]

Is this larger set of other storytellers other selves? What did you mean by created by me but not me?
Is there still a collective reality in 4D, or will we see fully what we wish to create on our own?
Or does the social memory complex create a consensus reality in 4D?

[Hototo]

You will see what you want to see but the reality you will see will by your desire contain "creator selves" that also are "creators". Kind of like 4th Density being the opennes to allow yourself to be messed with.

[AnthroHeart]

All these creator selves are 100% harmonious with me, so I can't see them messing with me. Unless things don't always go to plan, and we have to learn some difficult lessons in love. Toward the end of the 4D, the lessons in love can become quite extreme, often toward martyrdom, I imagine.

[zenmaster]

Either we've ascended and don't know it, or ascension isn't real. I personally think it's not real. A delusion of grandeur. Up there with when I thought I was talking with God. I do believe in Harvest however, but won't see it till after this life.

If by "ascension" you mean the physical raising or transmutation of a 3rd density physical body up into a 4th density physical body, I think that it is possible, just extremely rare. Also somewhat unnecessary, given that one may just reincarnate into a 4th density body.

Boo! You are taking all of the numinous joy out of the conflated sci-fantasy and new-age spiritual-leader influenced mindset.

[Ashim]

If by "ascension" you mean the physical raising or transmutation of a 3rd density physical body up into a 4th density physical body, I think that it is possible, just extremely rare. Also somewhat unnecessary, given that one may just reincarnate into a 4th density body.

Boo! You are taking all of the numinous joy out of the conflated sci-fantasy and new-age spiritual-leader influenced mindset.
[/quote][/quote]

Surely the demise/death of the body in 3rd density would be something included in the life plan if deemed necessary. The closest Ra got to mentioning the concept of ascension would be 'walking the steps of light', now if these steps could be taken whilst still in the physical form then there would be no purpose for 'death'. Those transitioning through the etheral gateway (4d time/space) will be doing so in order to accelerate the learning process.
I'm also not quite certain that every 'incarnation' involves going through a death/rebirth scenario. When you dream you incarnate into another body - in fact because we are made of light then the body incarnates several million or more times every second in space/time.
It seems we place so much importance on the physical , perhaps because we tend to think that we are the body.
I believe that we are more awareness than simply a meat puppet suit and that this awareness as a function of indigo ray creates the body.

[zenmaster]

Little bit of a chicken and egg problem there. While not impossible, the space/time mind must be able to transcend the vibration which holds the body in its form. But the mind does not and can not have any awareness across densities.

[Ashim]

Little bit of a chicken and egg problem there. While not impossible, the space/time mind must be able to transcend the vibration which holds the body in its form. But the mind does not and can not have any awareness across densities.

Sorry zenmaster, I don't understand. Could you perhaps explain this in other words?

[zenmaster]

Little bit of a chicken and egg problem there. While not impossible, the space/time mind must be able to transcend the vibration which holds the body in its form. But the mind does not and can not have any awareness across densities.

Sorry zenmaster, I don't understand. Could you perhaps explain this in other words?

i.e. "ascension"?
In other words, the "form maker" must be informed by the local vibration of mind. space/time here entails only partial awareness.
We "walk the steps of light" because of the draw toward absolute wholeness. Or rather, from everything, which is what is consciously available in time/space, to one thing (which is not consciously available).

Everything that you've made of yourself is not consciously available in space/time here. Part of you is in time/space and part of you is in space/time. So what exactly would you be self harvesting?

When you contact intelligent infinity, you may establish faith and a degree of distortion which is just able to transcend the density. But you still must die in order to start another core vibration. In other words, you don't consciously lay out your new genetic code and gather material from the cosmos because that degree of understanding of the body and mind is not within awareness. It's not even within the understanding of 4D which is millions of years more advanced in practice.

[Ashim]

Little bit of a chicken and egg problem there. While not impossible, the space/time mind must be able to transcend the vibration which holds the body in its form. But the mind does not and can not have any awareness across densities.

Sorry zenmaster, I don't understand. Could you perhaps explain this in other words?

i.e. "ascension"?
In other words, the "form maker" must be informed by the local vibration of mind. space/time here entails only partial awareness.
We "walk the steps of light" because of the draw toward absolute wholeness. Or rather, from everything, which is what is consciously available in time/space, to one thing (which is not consciously available).

Everything that you've made of yourself is not consciously available in space/time here. Part of you is in time/space and part of you is in space/time. So what exactly would you be self harvesting?

When you contact intelligent infinity, you may establish faith and a degree of distortion which is just able to transcend the density. But you still must die in order to start another core vibration. In other words, you don't consciously lay out your new genetic code and gather material from the cosmos because that degree of understanding of the body and mind is not within awareness. It's not even within the understanding of 4D which is millions of years more advanced in practice.

Thanks. What you say though does seem to me to contradict this:

34.2 Questioner: Thank you very much. We’ll start general questioning now. You stated at an earlier time that penetration of the eighth level or intelligent infinity level allows a mind/body/spirit complex to be harvested if it wishes at any time/space during the cycle. When this penetration of the eighth level occurs what does the entity who penetrates this experience? Can you tell me this?

Ra: I am Ra. The experience of each entity is unique in perception of intelligent infinity. Perceptions range from a limitless joy to a strong dedication to service to others while in the incarnated state. The entity which reaches intelligent infinity most often will perceive this experience as one of unspeakable profundity. However, it is not usual for the entity to immediately desire the cessation of the incarnation. Rather the desire to communicate or use this experience to aid others is extremely strong.

I must say that I do struggle at times with what you describe, perhaps due to a lack of formal science education.
I work with 'mental images', or maybe what you would term 'vague notions', so I can only attempt to put these into words that are probably not entirely suitable or particularly accurate.
My understanding is that the planet (system) is spiraling into an area of the cosmos where a sort of quantum superposition occurs, like a waveform collapse between space/time and time/space allowing the formation of photon 'molecules'. This new 'reality' allows the observer to experience both physical and zero point universes depending on awareness. This is what I feel the 'new age' idea about transitioning from 3d to 5d is all about,with 4d serving as the non-physical gateway.
In a sense the planet is 'walking the steps of light' and we, as sub-sub-sub logoi are the hitchhikers who get the chance to ascend along side.
I would like to hear your comments on that Ra quote in the context of what you wrote before.
Thanks again for your time.

[zenmaster]

"You stated at an earlier time that penetration of the eighth level or intelligent infinity level allows a mind/body/spirit complex to be harvested if it wishes at any time/space during the cycle.' What is not said is this is also after the physical death.
If the entity reaches Violet ray while incarnate, then they have been able to remove enough distortion whereby 3D density is now basically an option. Consciousness is able to recognize the "next step" and appropriate locale which resonates.
However, if the entity has not reached violet ray while incarnate, they still may have a sum-total violet-ray vibration (i.e. from distilled experience from all prior lifetimes), as it exists only in time/space, which may resonate with a vibration outside of the 3D octave. That time/space vibration is what requires the assistance of the natural cycle of energies in order to collect or to consolidate itself which would otherwise have required the fully-uncoiled-serpent consciousness of mind attained in the prior space/time incarnation.

[Ashim]

"You stated at an earlier time that penetration of the eighth level or intelligent infinity level allows a mind/body/spirit complex to be harvested if it wishes at any time/space during the cycle.' What is not said is this is also after the physical death.
If the entity reaches Violet ray while incarnate, then they have been able to remove enough distortion whereby 3D density is now basically an option. Consciousness is able to recognize the "next step" and appropriate locale which resonates.
However, if the entity has not reached violet ray while incarnate, they still may have a sum-total violet-ray vibration (i.e. from distilled experience from all prior lifetimes), as it exists only in time/space, which may resonate with a vibration outside of the 3D octave. That time/space vibration is what requires the assistance of the natural cycle of energies in order to collect or to consolidate itself which would otherwise have required the fully-uncoiled-serpent consciousness of mind attained in the prior space/time incarnation.

I interpret this differently zen.
Ra states "Perceptions range from a limitless joy to a strong dedication to service to others while in the incarnated state. ", the penetration of 8th density having already happened - so no 'death'.
The harvesting can now take place "..at any time/space.." which would imply no longer being subject to a linear time flow, including the 'past' history of incarnations within a cycle. The entity could 'time travel' within the bounds of the cycle - it would have 'Time Lord' abilities. Maybe that's why they would not be so keen to end the incarnation and why they might feel "limitless joy."

I have a feeling that I have 'already' done this somehow.

I experienced several time travel episodes that seemed to represent 'bookmarks' in my incarnational record. Comets raining down on a strange world (Mars?), going 'underground' with a girl and a tiger,giving a talk to priests in a domed building, being given an ameythst crystal by a woman, a blood red sky full of aircraft outside a temple, a woman shouting "it's armageddon!!",a loud explosion (Atlantis?), a grey ash covered city, a royal court, horsemen, then a walk into the hills, quickly remembering to send a message with a communication device, then a detonation, jumping off the path into a ditch.

These were not 'astral' experiences, I know the difference, this stuff was real, it happened in physicality.
Do you see what I'm trying to discover?
How did I experience this?

[Patrick]

You stated at an earlier time that penetration of the eighth level or intelligent infinity level allows a mind/body/spirit complex to be harvested if it wishes at any time/space during the cycle.

What is not said is this is also after the physical death...

Yes this is my understanding also. After your incarnation, once you are back in time/space, you could decide to walk the stairs of light without having to wait for the end of the current cycle.

[zenmaster]

Ra states "Perceptions range from a limitless joy to a strong dedication to service to others while in the incarnated state. ",

Yeah, that's called a "feeling".

[Ashim]

Ra states "Perceptions range from a limitless joy to a strong dedication to service to others while in the incarnated state. ",

Yeah, that's called a "feeling".

No, you might be able to feel it but it is an emotion.
An emotion is a more complex form of perception.
Limitless joy is not a 'feeling' but a connection to intelligent infinity.
If any 'thing' recongnizes its infinite nature it is able to align with source.

Limitless means infinite, without bounds.

It's more than a feeling.

[Sagittarius]

Ra states "Perceptions range from a limitless joy to a strong dedication to service to others while in the incarnated state. ",

Yeah, that's called a "feeling".

No, you might be able to feel it but it is an emotion.
An emotion is a more complex form of perception.
Limitless joy is not a 'feeling' but a connection to intelligent infinity.
If any 'thing' recongnizes its infinite nature it is able to align with source.

Limitless means infinite, without bounds.

It's more than a feeling.

We can only experience it as a feeling though. How else do you perceive emotions. That is how the connection to intelligent energy is discovered and navigated.

[native]

The harvest is the equivalent of Christianity's Judgment Day and making it into heaven. If the latter is silly why is the former not? Not to mention the harvest is a biblical term, which is why Ra plucked and worked with those concepts from Carla's mind. The universe is a gentle forgiving place if you seek honestly. Everything will be just fine.

34.2 pretty much describes what people feel when they go through the process of enlightenment..especially the desire to serve and teach others this knowledge gained. I also think Ra might be acting as a motivator, lighting a candle underneath you so to speak. If ET's showed up and said there's nothing to work for, then there would be no seeking.

"Consider, if you will, the tendency of those who are divinely happy, as you call this distortion, to have little urge to alter or better their condition. Such is the result of the mind/body/spirit which is not complex. There is the possibility of love of other-selves and service to other-selves, but there is the overwhelming awareness of the Creator in the self. The connection with the Creator is that of the umbilical cord. The security is total. Therefore, no love is terribly important; no pain terribly frightening; no effort, therefore, is made to serve for love or to benefit from fear."

[zenmaster]

Ra states "Perceptions range from a limitless joy to a strong dedication to service to others while in the incarnated state. ",

Yeah, that's called a "feeling".

No, you might be able to feel it but it is an emotion.
An emotion is a more complex form of perception.
Limitless joy is not a 'feeling' but a connection to intelligent infinity.
If any 'thing' recongnizes its infinite nature it is able to align with source.

Limitless means infinite, without bounds.

It's more than a feeling.

Had to chuckle at "you may be able to feel it but it is an emotion". That's like saying, "you may be able to eat it, but it is food". The negation makes absolutely no sense. The whole point was that an awareness of infinity (which is "everything possible") must be processed according to what is already known. Since you don't actually have conscious awareness of infinity, you feel it as it suggests that something more than is currently known. "Feeling" is a time/space faculty of awareness. With time/space awareness, a periphery of wholeness (which reaches into the unconscious) is used to perceive or to determine qualities of what is brought to the attention.

While participating in a suggestive awareness of "something more (infinity) which exists in infinite possibilities" is what contact with intelligent infinity affords, and that may suggest transcendence, that mere feeling is not going to activate a higher-dimensional mind and body. As I said, you have to have your entire developmental being, holistically, consciously involved in the harvest process - and not merely the small fraction of the limited-awareness personality which developed in a relative eye-blink in space/time. In 3D, that self awareness of entire being (up to that point of development) is what is available in time/space - and only in time/space.

[AnthroHeart]

You stated at an earlier time that penetration of the eighth level or intelligent infinity level allows a mind/body/spirit complex to be harvested if it wishes at any time/space during the cycle.

What is not said is this is also after the physical death...

Yes this is my understanding also. After your incarnation, once you are back in time/space, you could decide to walk the stairs of light without having to wait for the end of the current cycle.

Is harvest still going on, or did us who are incarnate miss the boat?

[Ashim]

Ra states "Perceptions range from a limitless joy to a strong dedication to service to others while in the incarnated state. ",

Yeah, that's called a "feeling".

No, you might be able to feel it but it is an emotion.
An emotion is a more complex form of perception.
Limitless joy is not a 'feeling' but a connection to intelligent infinity.
If any 'thing' recongnizes its infinite nature it is able to align with source.

Limitless means infinite, without bounds.

It's more than a feeling.

Had to chuckle at "you may be able to feel it but it is an emotion". That's like saying, "you may be able to eat it, but it is food". The negation makes absolutely no sense. The whole point was that an awareness of infinity (which is "everything possible") must be processed according to what is already known. Since you don't actually have conscious awareness of infinity, you feel it as it suggests that something more than is currently known. "Feeling" is a time/space faculty of awareness. With time/space awareness, a periphery of wholeness (which reaches into the unconscious) is used to perceive or to determine qualities of what is brought to the attention.

While participating in a suggestive awareness of "something more (infinity) which exists in infinite possibilities" is what contact with intelligent infinity affords, and that may suggest transcendence, that mere feeling is not going to activate a higher-dimensional mind and body. As I said, you have to have your entire developmental being, holistically, consciously involved in the harvest process - and not merely the small fraction of the limited-awareness personality which developed in a relative eye-blink in space/time. In 3D, that self awareness of entire being (up to that point of development) is what is available in time/space - and only in time/space.

Thanks zen. I now know that my entire developmental being is holistically and consciously involved in the ascension process.

When you chuckled, was it a feeling or an emotion?

[zenmaster]

Thanks zen. I now know that my entire developmental being is holistically and consciously involved in the ascension process.

Yes thanks to you for pointing out that to some who have cultivated a certain special emotion, there is indeed no veil.

When you chuckled, was it a feeling or an emotion?

haha, both.

[Patrick]

You stated at an earlier time that penetration of the eighth level or intelligent infinity level allows a mind/body/spirit complex to be harvested if it wishes at any time/space during the cycle.

What is not said is this is also after the physical death...

Yes this is my understanding also. After your incarnation, once you are back in time/space, you could decide to walk the stairs of light without having to wait for the end of the current cycle.

Is harvest still going on, or did us who are incarnate miss the boat?

It is still going on. It is impossible to miss the harvest. You will walk the stairs of light when your incarnation ends.

[Ashim]

You will walk the stairs of light when your incarnation ends.

Remembering of course that your truth in this density is only subjective...

[AnthroHeart]

What does that mean Ashim. That the steps of light are only subjective in how we experience them?

---

Yes this is my understanding also. After your incarnation, once you are back in time/space, you could decide to walk the stairs of light without having to wait for the end of the current cycle.

So I could have possibly accessed intelligent infinity without realizing it? I had a moment of bliss in my heart once.

---

It is still going on. It is impossible to miss the harvest. You will walk the stairs of light when your incarnation ends.

Thanks Patrick. Very reassuring.

[Ashim]

What does that mean Ashim. That the steps of light are only subjective in how we experience them?

No, it was just that Patrick made a very matter of fact statement and I chose to paraphrase his signature, that's all.

[Patrick]

You will walk the stairs of light when your incarnation ends.

Remembering of course that your truth in this density is only subjective...

Yes of course ! We are always only sharing our own perspective. What else could we do.

---

Yes this is my understanding also. After your incarnation, once you are back in time/space, you could decide to walk the stairs of light without having to wait for the end of the current cycle.

So I could have possibly accessed intelligent infinity without realizing it? I had a moment of bliss in my heart once.

Without realizing it, I'm not sure. Do you sometimes feel pressure all around your head or on top of your head ?

[AnthroHeart]

Yes this is my understanding also. After your incarnation, once you are back in time/space, you could decide to walk the stairs of light without having to wait for the end of the current cycle.

So I could have possibly accessed intelligent infinity without realizing it? I had a moment of bliss in my heart once.

Without realizing it, I'm not sure. Do you sometimes feel pressure all around your head or on top of your head ?

Almost all the time I feel that. I'm feeling pressure at the top of my head right now. My 3rd eye also has pressure. Starting about 3 years ago, I started really feeling it. Now it happens so much I don't think about it that often.

[Patrick]

Yes this is my understanding also. After your incarnation, once you are back in time/space, you could decide to walk the stairs of light without having to wait for the end of the current cycle.

So I could have possibly accessed intelligent infinity without realizing it? I had a moment of bliss in my heart once.

Without realizing it, I'm not sure. Do you sometimes feel pressure all around your head or on top of your head ?

Almost all the time I feel that. I'm feeling pressure at the top of my head right now. My 3rd eye also has pressure. Starting about 3 years ago, I started really feeling it. Now it happens so much I don't think about it that often.

Then my friend, you are aware of your access to intelligent infinity. You are aware of your connection, you can actually feel it consciously.

[zenmaster]

Could very well be a sinus condition.