Vegans : some questions for you !!

[Diana]

Diana; No accusations have been made, I simply offered my perspective; that I, having been a teenager myself, find it hard to believe/imagine. That's quite different than accusing someone of lying.

And yet it is implied in the statement. Perhaps it might have been worded differently; it is difficult to express clearly in written words at times. If that was your personal experience, how does that apply to another person who may not be at all like you?

And I don't see who's accusing veggies/vegans from being overly emotional, or that meat eaters are overly emotional. Personally; I don't care what people eat, as long as they choose what's best for them.

I did not say anyone was "overly emotional." I said I have observed emotional reactions. This does not mean a person is melodramatic or emotional; rather, they are being triggered into an emotional response for whatever reason. This is what I find curious—what is (are) the reason(s).

Personally; I don't care what people eat, as long as they choose what's best for them.

I do care. However, since Free Will is the curriculum for 3D, there is nothing I can do about other people's choices, except to be an example and try to stay in a state of higher consciousness. Yet in this venue at B4 it is nice to be able to discuss the issues of compassion with those who are aware of it and seeking it.

[BrownEye]

Meat eating is perfectly fine and programmed in for the experience to end the incarnation at a preplanned time.

For those that are not programmed this way it will inevitably cause an amount of suffering, which is simply a learning experience. (people defend their demons)

All perspectives are of course valid from the point of view of the perceiver, noting that not all perceive equally or as much.

From my own perspective as someone that has intuitively advanced to axiatonal reconstruction, eating meat only damages the grid lines of Indigo and above. This means that if a person is not programmed for healing or clairvoyancy it will really not have much impact on them beyond the physical. Perspective will remain within physical boundaries and intellectual conditioning.

Regardless, it is pointless to offer more than personal perspective gained from personal experience. Not everyone will want a path as easy or as hard as your own, and if they do not learn by suffering, they do not learn at all. (though many have incarnated with learned presets allowing to either "Get it" quicker or avoid it altogether)

[Melissa]

Diana; No accusations have been made, I simply offered my perspective; that I, having been a teenager myself, find it hard to believe/imagine. That's quite different than accusing someone of lying.

And yet it is implied in the statement. Perhaps it might have been worded differently; it is difficult to express clearly in written words at times. If that was your personal experience, how does that apply to another person who may not be at all like you?

And I don't see who's accusing veggies/vegans from being overly emotional, or that meat eaters are overly emotional. Personally; I don't care what people eat, as long as they choose what's best for them.

I did not say anyone was "overly emotional." I said I have observed emotional reactions. This does not mean a person is melodramatic or emotional; rather, they are being triggered into an emotional response for whatever reason. This is what I find curious—what is (are) the reason(s).

Personally; I don't care what people eat, as long as they choose what's best for them.

I do care. However, since Free Will is the curriculum for 3D, there is nothing I can do about other people's choices, except to be an example and try to stay in a state of higher consciousness. Yet in this venue at B4 it is nice to be able to discuss the issues of compassion with those who are aware of it and seeking it.

It was not implied by me, if you read it as such and continue to do so, that's fine. My experience doesn't have to apply to another person, but I do think there are certain universal challenges that come with being a teenager; peer pressure being one of them. So if a teenager has different eating habits then whats generally considered as 'normal' or 'cool', it can be a tough catalyst.

As I've mentioned before; I switched back to eating meat in the past because I was presenting my family with a catalyst and couldn't handle the negative remarks at the time, they are convinced meat is necessary in order to stay healthy. So, if you're growing up with a family who are convinced that eating meat is detrimental, it can be just as challenging to choose differently.

I don't understand your statement about emotional responses, I mean, it seems like a general statement but if it anything triggers your curiosity you could always ask someone for clarification directly, right?

This, by the way, is my last contribution in this thread. Peace out.

[Monica]

My experience doesn't have to apply to another person, but I do think there are certain universal challenges that come with being a teenager; peer pressure being one of them. So if a teenager has different eating habits then whats generally considered as 'normal' or 'cool', it can be a tough catalyst.

Why don't you just ask Icipher how tough it was for him?

[Diana]

So if a teenager has different eating habits then whats generally considered as 'normal' or 'cool', it can be a tough catalyst.

Very true, Being a teen can be tough if you're outside the box. However, for some time it has been "cool" to be a vegetarian (though this is probably different from state to state, and I don't know about countries outside the U.S.). I have nephews and a niece, and going back to the 90s there were many kids they knew who were vegetarians--not becuae their parents were, but because they chose it. So it's not so "out there" as perhaps it once was.

As an adult vegetarian, I can say that ridicule toward vegetarianism has nothing to do with being "cool." It seems to be either a defensive reaction on the part of those who do eat meat, or out of a sort of ignorance of feeling (example: a person in my martial arts class would always tease me about having baby seal for lunch and the like). I wasn't offended because I could tell he really did not get it at all. Such is the state of some 3D humans.

[Icipher]

My experience doesn't have to apply to another person, but I do think there are certain universal challenges that come with being a teenager; peer pressure being one of them. So if a teenager has different eating habits then whats generally considered as 'normal' or 'cool', it can be a tough catalyst.

Why don't you just ask Icipher how tough it was for him?

#REKT

[isis]

My experience doesn't have to apply to another person, but I do think there are certain universal challenges that come with being a teenager; peer pressure being one of them. So if a teenager has different eating habits then whats generally considered as 'normal' or 'cool', it can be a tough catalyst.

Why don't you just ask Icipher how tough it was for him?

#REKT

how tough was it for u?

I've been a vegetarian for 42 of my 54 years, and raised my son vegetarian. He is now 25 and has never had a bite of meat in his life.

I have tasted cooked animal flesh a handful of times,

NOTE TO MOTHERS: HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY!!!!!!!

[Icipher]

Glad you asked It really wasn't tough at all, in fact. I also wasn't raised with a gigantic funnel shoving GMO corn syrup candy bars into my throat, like most kids, and although I tasted candy on occasion I didn't have an interest in it, just like meat. I enjoyed the hell out of cheese pizza like any other kid, and likewise with carrot cake at parties. I didn't ever feel like I was "missing out".

Here in Texas, tacos are about the only fast food I ate growing up, as veggie burgers et al were not in vogue yet. Occasionally some minimum wage beef slipped their way into a taco, against my instruction, and I remember being amused at how bland it was upon realizing I had bit into it.

Hence, as I have never, by choice, had a bite of meat in my life, Monica's statement is accurate.

[Plenum]

Hence, as I have never, by choice, had a bite of meat in my life, Monica's statement is accurate.

that's pretty neat!

I've been meat-free myself for almost 18 months, and it came about quite spontaneously, it wasn't even really a 'choice' as such. For me, it just felt like wearing a different set of clothes, or switching to a different outfit.

And to be honest, I don't even think about eating meat/not-eating-meat. (it helps that I eat most meals at home, and don't need to co-ordinate as to what's for lunch/dinner).

[xise]

Re: Teenage years as vegetarian and fitting in.


I was by choice vegetarian from 15 till about 21 (and now again for the past two years).


In my particularly case, it wasn't hard to fit in as a vegetarian, in part because I think most people assumed I was vegetarian for religious reasons based on the fact I am obviously non-white (Indian, though sometimes I get a few people thinking I'm Latino or Black depending how long I've been in the sun). They seldom asked why I was vegetarian. Just as they seldom asked why a Jewish person was eating only Kosher items or why a Muslim person did not eat pork. There was plenty of bullying going around, but dietary choice was not really one of things where this took place. Perhaps also because the bullying/stratification meant that the school and the lunchroom was self-segregated by clicks - so there was much less forced interaction among different clicks of friends, unlike in classes or in after-school events or parties (where eating a full meal w/ or w/o meat rarely came up).


I've found that it seems adults during work lunches who ask why I'm vegetarian (it's the way I choose to show my respect and concern for animal rights) these days are the ones who try to find some sort of the hole in my dietary choices. Though lately if I try to preempt them and say I don't judge people's dietary choices and diet is a personal choice and there are other ways to show respect for animal rights, it usually dissipates their seemingly tension and probing questions.


In my opinion, the judgments of the more "militant" vegetarians/vegans have gotten under a lot of people's skin, and that is projected onto me unless I preempt it by comforting them with non-judgment and acceptance of their dietary choice as described above. Sometimes however I do wonder how much of the emotional reaction is due to emotional resonance or guilt with these judgments that many militant vegetarians/vegans level against meat-eaters. I wonder this because my periods of vegetarian and meat eating I did experience guilt over meat eating (many years ago) and animal suffering when I'd take a bite out kfc breastpiece for example even after having read the conditions of kfc animals. In any case however, I don't believe self-judgment and guilt are useful at all, so I always try to encourage myself and others examine their choices more objectively without such self-condemnation.


Oh and cheese pizza was/is the s***

[Fang]

As a current teenager and ex vegetarian I will say that I don't think not eating meat is something kids have trouble with socially, at least it's not a frequent issue with what I've seen lol. I have had friends though who were brought up on the diet eventually give it the kick due to all sorts of health complications it caused, their bodies were just not meant for such frivolity.

[Icipher]

As a current teenager and ex vegetarian I will say that I don't think not eating meat is something kids have trouble with socially, at least it's not a frequent issue with what I've seen lol. I have had friends though who were brought up on the diet eventually give it the kick due to all sorts of health complications it caused, their bodies were just not meant for such frivolity.

Correction: Their bodies were not meant for the frivolity of attempting a good diet poorly. This is common, as most people lack basic nutritional understanding even on omnivorous diets. It is crucial to "do" vegetarian/vegan/raw/etc correctly.

If you wreck a Porsche, it's your fault for being a bad driver, it's not the car's fault for being unsafe.

[Fang]

You are assuming that they did not. What happened last time you tried to correct me? You were incorrect due to a fundamental mistaken assumption.

---

Diff people have different chemical constitutions, to assume uniformity on what is needed healthwise for individuals is a bandaid, lazy approach

[Icipher]

You are assuming that they did not. What happened last time you tried to correct me? You were incorrect due to a fundamental mistaken assumption.

What a horrible attitude. You certainly do go for the offensive.

My last correction was, well, correct. Kale is more protein dense than beef per calorie. You made the point that you'd prefer to use mass as the standard, rather than caloric value. This is odd, as the body derives energy from caloric value, not mass.

Nutrition is a science, and except for certain disorders, the human body needs what the human body needs. This is why it's impossible to say conclusively the body needs meat, just as it's impossible to say omitting meat is superior. What the science of nutrition does tell us is that the body needs certain macronutrients and micronutrients - it's up to us to decide how our body gets those nutrients, and if the wealth of anecdotal evidence in favor of a plant-based diet promoting better health resonates with us.

As long as you're seeing 3rd density experience as a battle, with arguments to be won, and using such hostility when gentle corrections would suffice, you're rather missing out on the entire opportunity to polarize green ray positive and learn universal love.

[Fang]

My last correction was, well, correct. Kale is more protein dense than beef per calorie. You made the point that you'd prefer to use mass as the standard, rather than caloric value. This is odd, as the body derives energy from caloric value, not mass.

Your last correction was indeed correct, but was irrelevant to the point raised by myself that you were addressing. This is what I was drawing attention to, as it is similar to what you just did, assume a false frame for the point raised. It wasn't an attack on yourself and if you really think that was hostile I would encourage you to evaluate your own post.

[BrownEye]

I have seen a lot of posts across the web stating that 'man' is a carnivore. I see more evidence of carnivores leaving muscle tissue behind after feasting on the entrails.

Is this interesting?

Muscles retain toxins which animals tend to avoid, except for the scavengers, which is really where 'man' seems to fit. Agriculture is not something 'man' evolved into, it was taught to them.

Does this stir any consideration in some?

[Icipher]

It wasn't an attack on yourself

Fair enough! My mistake, it just seemed all too similar to the severe lack of heart chakra rampant on this forum.

I have seen a lot of posts across the web stating that 'man' is a carnivore. I see more evidence of carnivores leaving muscle tissue behind after feasting on the entrails.

Is this interesting?

Muscles retain toxins which animals tend to avoid, except for the scavengers, which is really where 'man' seems to fit. Agriculture is not something 'man' evolved into, it was taught to them.

Does this stir any consideration in some?

This is interesting. The main argument for humans being omnivorous is that we "can" digest meat, but this is shaky at best - our teeth are developed like that of herbivores, and while we can eat meat, it putrifies in the gut and takes considerably longer to digest, as well as causing needless acid waste for the body to deal with.