Why I am not a vegan

[Shemaya]

Ah well, carry on then.

[Parsons]

I have held back on this but ok, here goes:

In all seriousness:

Knowing, consciously eating apples is inherently STS.

Does anyone here eat apples?

Are you offended by me telling you it's STS? Do you feel judged?

I have no idea what you are even talking about. So, no.

[Monica]

Life returns to Life

Life begets life. Death begets death.

[Rhayader]

Life, death, same thing.

[Diana]

Monica,

If you can't look in the mirror, why would you expect anyone else to? Are you trying to say that you are not guilty of supporting violence , unnecessary killing and suffering?

If that's where you are coming from, I am totally done trying to converse with you. Because it's not a conversation, it's an agenda.

That's all I have to say.

Strictly speaking, we all, if we pay taxes for example (in the U.S.), support violence, unnecessary killing and suffering.

But does that mean we shouldn't minimize the suffering we cause, in any way we can to the best of our ability and awareness? There are some things we have no or little control over (such as paying taxes to a huge bully system, to which we don't mind paying money for the services that help the people, but detest supporting war and the like).

We do have control over whether or not to eat meat and support the system of cruelty. Notwithstanding addiction, which is a monster to tame, one makes a choice to simply not do it. It is difficult to do nonetheless because it is swimming upstream, but it is doable.

Eating meat and supporting the system simply isn't necessary.

And why not set the example then, if you wish Monica to look in the mirror and you do it? I'm not saying that with any animosity. How about I start with my own self-reflection within the context of this thread?

I admit to keeping much at bay. There is so much more I could do to help the world in general if I wasn't so cowardly. At one time I wanted to join the peace corps and help third-world communities. But I knew the suffering, of both human and animals—because that's one thing people don't always see: the animal suffering. I have been to a few third-world countries and have seen a lot—would do me in. I wouldn't be able to handle my own pain. So I didn't do that. I agonize every time there is an oil spill and the sea life and birds are coated with oil. I want to go with the animal rights groups and clean them and alleviate their suffering, but I'm too cowardly to do it.

So, I don't do SO much that I am aware of and that I could absolutely contribute help to, because of my own selfish reasons.

In this, I commiserate with all here who really want to stop eating meat, like Icaro, who are finding it difficult. I support everyone's efforts to alleviate suffering.

[Unbound]

Where exactly is "causing suffering" tallied? Where is "alleviating suffering" tallied? How can one ever truly know if they are causing or alleviating more suffering? How many have worked to alleviate suffering and inadvertently caused it, or vice versa?

[isis]

Life returns to Life

Life begets life. Death begets death.

Cayce also wrote,

"An incorrect mental attitude produces more poisons and toxins than does eating bad food."

Is all well or isn't it? I think it is, no matter what.

There is no spoon. There is no meat. There is no matter. Imo, there's only the OIC forever experiencing completion, wholeness, oneness, & perfection.

You are not part of a material universe. You are part of a thought. You are dancing in a ballroom in which there is no material.

[Unbound]

Where exactly is "causing suffering" tallied? Where is "alleviating suffering" tallied? How can one ever truly know if they are causing or alleviating more suffering? How many have worked to alleviate suffering and inadvertently caused it, or vice versa?

P.S. What I am actually asking here, is how does one actually know one's actions are alleviating or causing more suffering?

[Monica]

I have no idea what you are even talking about. So, no.

Are you sure THAT is the reason you don't feel judged? Just because you don't fully understand, or agree, that eating apples is STS?

But *I* think eating apples is STS, and *you* eat apples; thus, isn't what I just said a judgmental statement? Isn't it self-righteous and judgmental for me to say that anyone who eats apples is doing something STS?

[Diana]

Where exactly is "causing suffering" tallied? Where is "alleviating suffering" tallied? How can one ever truly know if they are causing or alleviating more suffering? How many have worked to alleviate suffering and inadvertently caused it, or vice versa?

That's true. In the case of humans, it would be a delicate consideration where one would want to help. Non-interference, and other things would be considered. The way I would help would probably be to bring art to children (which I already do in books). But it is tricky when you disturb a system, and the free will of the people in that system, and what you have done has the ripple effect. But if you see a hungry person, I say feed them. There are ways to help globally, I'm sure, that really do alleviate suffering. I find places to donate to that really seem to help, such as Best Friends (an animal sanctuary), and The Phoenix Rescue Mission (they directly help the homeless on the streets in Phoenix with food, clothing, and shelter).

But I don't see how it could be ambiguous to help animals that have been damaged and are suffering from an oil spill, by cleaning the birds' wings for example. We have a collective responsibility as humans, and I am part of that. Human folly dumps oil in the ocean, and people try to alleviate the suffering. How could that be construed as causing more suffering (unless we are referring to the bad press the oil companies might get)?

[Unbound]

Where exactly is "causing suffering" tallied? Where is "alleviating suffering" tallied? How can one ever truly know if they are causing or alleviating more suffering? How many have worked to alleviate suffering and inadvertently caused it, or vice versa?

That's true. In the case of humans, it would be a delicate consideration where one would want to help. Non-interference, and other things would be considered. The way I would help would probably be to bring art to children (which I already do in books). But it is tricky when you disturb a system, and the free will of the people in that system, and what you have done has the ripple effect. But if you see a hungry person, I say feed them. There are ways to help globally, I'm sure, that really do alleviate suffering. I find places to donate to that really seem to help, such as Best Friends (an animal sanctuary), and The Phoenix Rescue Mission (they directly help the homeless on the streets in Phoenix with food, clothing, and shelter).

But I don't see how it could be ambiguous to help animals that have been damaged and are suffering from an oil spill, by cleaning the birds' wings for example. We have a collective responsibility as humans, and I am part of that. Human folly dumps oil in the ocean, and people try to alleviate the suffering. How could that be construed as causing more suffering (unless we are referring to the bad press the oil companies might get)?

My point is that "minimizing" suffering isn't something you have any way to actually keep track of, and so if we are going to frame an idea around the alleviation of suffering then the focus should never be on quantity. I know that wasn't your intention, but I think it's a key point in this "argument" of "more suffering" vs "less suffering".

[Monica]

What I am actually asking here, is how does one actually know one's actions are alleviating or causing more suffering?

42.7 ↥ Questioner: I would like to try to make an analogy for this in third density. Many entities here feel great compassion toward relieving the physical problems of third-density other-selves by administering to them in many ways, bringing them food if there is hunger as there is in the African nations now, bringing them medicine if they believe they require administering to them medically, and being selfless in all of these services to a very great extent.

This is creating a polarization or a vibration that is in harmony with green ray or fourth density. However, it is not balanced with the understanding of fifth density that these entities are experiencing catalyst and a more balanced administration to their needs would be to provide them with the learning necessary to reach the state of awareness of fourth density than it would be to administer to their physical needs at this time. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. To a mind/body/spirit complex which is starving, the appropriate response is the feeding of the body. You may extrapolate from this.

Extrapolating from this:

If the appropriate response to a hungry other-self is to feed them, then it seems logical that:

1. The appropriate response to a large group of other-selves who are being tortured, and calling out for help, and slaughtered by the billions...is to do what we can to help them. For starters, not contributing to their suffering.

2. Human other-selves are hungry. When we eat meat, we are exacerbating the global starvation problem. Refraining from eating meat helps free up resources which can then be fed to the hungry people.

When we do #1, we help #2 also. We get a twofer!

In NO way is it EVER reasonable to just add to the demand for more torturing of other-selves, while adding to the root causes of human hunger as well. That's a no-brainer.

[Unbound]

Sure, but that isn't just happening to animals, how do you pick and choose what suffering to focus on when there is so much?

[Monica]

Sure, but that isn't just happening to animals, how do you pick and choose what suffering to focus on when there is so much?

We can't all do everything. We do what we can, when we can.

The meat industry is the single biggest contributor to so many of the planet's ills: human starvation, deforestation, climate change, cruelty to animals, feeding lots of fear to the STS entities hanging around, emotional problems and more violence in the slaughterhouse workers, cancer, heart disease and other problems in humans...the list goes on.

It's a good place to start because it affects the whole planet on so many levels, and it's so easy to do...simply quit feeding the meat machine.

[Diana]

Cayce also wrote,

"An incorrect mental attitude produces more poisons and toxins than does eating bad food."

I think it all produces toxins. The toxins just vibrate at a different level.

Is all well or isn't it? I think it is, no matter what.

I'm not that much of a light-being. I see that there is a whole lot here that is not well.

The concept in theory is sound, when seen from a very advanced and evolved perspective. Maybe Ra could see it that way, but all the new-agers saying this (I'm not saying that's you), sound like they're spouting empty words. It sounds like denial and sugar-coating over a lake of real perception and experience to me.

There is no spoon. There is no meat. There is no matter. Imo, there's only the OIC forever experiencing completion, wholeness, oneness, & perfection.

Great line for a sci-fi movie with lots of truth in it, but not practical.

You are not part of a material universe. You are part of a thought. You are dancing in a ballroom in which there is no material.

This is simplistic, probably because Ra knew they had to talk down to us.

An atom cannot be pinpointed in space and time (the Uncertainty Principal), and is actually fuzzy when observed. So matter is indeed not what we have traditionally labeled it as. But is does have existence and effect. I find it crazy to deny what we perceive, because it's all perception in the end. We create this framework to evolve and exist within. Why deny physicality? It has its existence even if only in our minds.

So, there is meat, even though it may boil down to thought. Pain is a thought. Eating is a thought. The planet is a thought. Sex is a thought. So what? Does that mean we dismiss everything here that we have created (presumably), as though it's all nothing?

Even if we go with the simplistic, all is thought, how does that change the experience we have with it? There is still cause and effect. Is anyone here such an advanced light-being and so beyond this kindergarten school of Earth that they have no experience here but joy and oneness with all of existence? For the rest of us, we are apparently here experiencing much more than love, light, and joy.

No amount of new-age sayings are going to change that.

---

My point is that "minimizing" suffering isn't something you have any way to actually keep track of, and so if we are going to frame an idea around the alleviation of suffering then the focus should never be on quantity. I know that wasn't your intention, but I think it's a key point in this "argument" of "more suffering" vs "less suffering".

I think we're getting lost in semantics here. More, less...I'm not looking at quantity. I'm simply looking at this:

I am here as a human. There is an enormous amount of suffering in the world. I don't resonate with suffering. Oftentimes the suffering breaks my heart because I care for beings other than myself. I try to assist in alleviating that suffering where I can. If I see a homeless person on the street, I give him/her cash I keep in my car if I have it. I frankly don't care if they by wine or food with it, that's their choice.

I am well aware that there are many nuances to the concept of alleviating suffering. What I didn't mention in my confession of not doing all I can, is that the pain I would feel "helping" others, would also contribute to the negativity here. It's another reason I don't do certain things.

[Monica]

"An incorrect mental attitude produces more poisons and toxins than does eating bad food."

That meat is 'bad food' is secondary. It's not about the food. It's about the animals.

It's not about the eating. It's about the torturing and killing.

Eating is seeing this from the perspective of self.

Looking at what happens to the animal - the killing - is seeing this from the perspective of other-self.

This illustrates STS/STO.

Is all well or isn't it? I think it is, no matter what.

Maybe YOU think it's 'all well' but the cows, pigs and chickens sure don't.

There is no spoon. There is no meat. There is no matter. Imo, there's only the OIC forever experiencing completion, wholeness, oneness, & perfection.

Lofty New Age fluff. Sure that's true from the perspective of the OIC, but not from OUR perspective in the here and now.

[Diana]

Sure, but that isn't just happening to animals, how do you pick and choose what suffering to focus on when there is so much?

You can just do what you're moved to do. If there is so much suffering you feel stymied I understand that.

I do what's in front of me. I'll help a homeless person on the street with a little cash. I lend a kind ear to people struggling with death or loss. When I used to have pets, I took in strays. I don't eat meat. I try to be conscious and responsible in my choices (eg: I don't patronize fast-food restaurants that are contributing to cutting down the rain forest to graze cattle, even if it's not buying the beef they sell; I try to be responsible in what I buy such as recycled paper products and nontoxic cleaners; etc.).

I also do what comes into my world as something I can contribute to. As when I found out about Best Friends and The Phoenix Rescue Mission. I've volunteered at a no-kill animal shelter. I have also volunteered to go to certain institutions on Christmas for those who have no families. I did research a good place to donate money to at Christmas that helps both people and animals, in lieu of buying gifts for family and friends who need nothing (I make a card or DVD instead as a pice of art).

In my career, I do how-to-draw books for children, which creates a lot of joy. In this I am very lucky to have been able to do this for "work."

I just do what comes into my world as a choice or possibility to be of some service, within the possibilities of my own time constraints, bank account, and ability to manifest something positive by participating.

[Parsons]

I have no idea what you are even talking about. So, no.

Are you sure THAT is the reason you don't feel judged? Just because you don't fully understand, or agree, that eating apples is STS?

But *I* think eating apples is STS, and *you* eat apples; thus, isn't what I just said a judgmental statement? Isn't it self-righteous and judgmental for me to say that anyone who eats apples is doing something STS?

I don't know, I suppose so... If this is an analogy, I'm having trouble getting into it.

[Monica]

I have no idea what you are even talking about. So, no.

Are you sure THAT is the reason you don't feel judged? Just because you don't fully understand, or agree, that eating apples is STS?

But *I* think eating apples is STS, and *you* eat apples; thus, isn't what I just said a judgmental statement? Isn't it self-righteous and judgmental for me to say that anyone who eats apples is doing something STS?

I don't know, I suppose so... If this is an analogy, I'm having trouble getting into it.

Would anyone else like to answer my question? Do you feel judged when I say that eating apples is inherently STS?

[native]

Icaro! I feel that as well. It's a struggle to try to uplift others in true STO fashion and also live with the blindness that's around, looking continuously in a mirror to others who can't see . ( not talking about anyone here)

I have become much more self-accepting in the process. We kid ourselves about how loving and compassionate we think we are, if we saw the whole picture of our unconsciousness, then the deepest compassion would emerge.

Imo, you are far from denial. Maybe a bit overwhelmed by the breadth and depth of the darkness in this world?

It is quite overwhelming at times. Compassion is a feeling and I think we shut down our emotions and get caught in the mind constantly. So I really would like to work on sending positive emotion to others at all times. I equate beingness with emotion/feeling. In 16.50 Ra attempts to describe fourth density through words that are only able to approximate it. It's a state of pure joy where we're aware of the vibrations of each other.

And somehow we think we're going to get there by yelling and arguing with each other, through will and domination =/ It seems a necessary part of our own catalyst, to get over ourselves..and be in a place of pure love. So I think we're only just learning to activate our true color green ray body, and leave this third density nonsense behind. If we seek harmony and wish to create harmony, one must be harmony. A simple message we seem to always forget.

"64.4 The principle behind any ritual of the white magical nature is to so configure the stimuli which reach down into the trunk of mind that this arrangement causes the generation of disciplined and purified emotion or love which then may be both protection and the key to the gateway to intelligent infinity."

[Ashim]

Humans don't need meat

The hunter needs meat.

[Monica]

Humans don't need meat

The hunter needs meat.

True. Hunters are easily identified by their sharp fangs, with which they can easily tear apart prey with only their teeth...and then they eagerly lap up the blood and delight in devouring the bloody, raw meat.

Wolves, lions and tigers are obviously hunters. Just look at those teeth! Humans aren't. Just look at those teeth!

---

And somehow we think we're going to get there by yelling and arguing with each other, through will and domination =/

No one is dominating anyone here. It would be impossible to do that. This is just an internet discussion. Everyone is here by choice. It's quite easy to pick up that little device called a mouse and simply click elsewhere.

Killing a sentient being against his will...when s/he is struggling to escape and bellowing in pain, and flailing about while being burned or dismembered alive...THAT is domination!

If we seek harmony and wish to create harmony, one must be harmony

It continues to baffle me as to how anyone can think that killing sentient beings is, in any way, harmonious.

[native]

I was trying to express the idea that I think certain manifestations exist because we're still working with and holding onto catalyst. Wasn't referring to the discussion at hand specifically, but the ideas related to self expression and acceptance in general. My example would include respecting and having compassion for those who are sensitive to this issue, and also reciprocal opportunities.

"The adept then begins to do less of the preliminary or outer work, having to do with function, and begins to effect the inner work which has to do with being."

[Monica]

I was trying to express the idea that I think certain manifestations exist because we're still working with and holding onto catalyst. Wasn't referring to the discussion at hand specifically, but the ideas related to self expression and acceptance in general. My example would include respecting and having compassion for those who are sensitive to this issue, and also reciprocal opportunities.

OK thanks for the clarification!

"The adept then begins to do less of the preliminary or outer work, having to do with function, and begins to effect the inner work which has to do with being."

I resonate very strongly with virtually everything Ra said. I do think, however, that context must be applied, and the whole of the message taken into consideration. I've seen many people use Ra quotes to justify apathy, inaction and lack of compassion, while claiming to be higher-density Wanderers and thus 'beyond' those 'mere 4D' traits. Not saying you are doing that! But it is very common.

[isis]

it's a possibility that all actions, both the seemingly good & seemingly bad, may serve the creator - equally. therefore, i ask, who are we to judge/condemn that which serves the OIC? idk but i'm certainly hesitant to.

you can't argue that there is a possibility that you/we could be every single being, & event, & every last thing there is.

there's a chance we should be thankful for it all.

you can't argue there's a possibility there could only be this sublime oneness/love/light that's hiding behind a veil of sorts that's attempting to fool us into believing otherwise...& obviously, more often than not, it's accomplishing that task.

there could only be one of us here. there could be only identity, as Ra states. you could be something, some creator/destroyer, that's powerful beyond description.

it's a fact that all could indeed be well, despite how things seem, & that things could be going down precisely as intended - perhaps, for some reason(s) we can't now comprehend.

it's a fact that every last thing that happens could happen for some divine purpose.

i find it's helpful to at least remain open to these possibilities. when i do i'm filled with an overwhelming sense of peace & acceptance.

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.

Agreed! I'm starting a campaign to petition the Logos to cancel the experiment.

---

Exactly. Sure, from the perspective of the Logos, it's all good, but from down here in the trenches, it sucketh.

I think the Logos needs a reminder of what it feels like down here. I'm hoping that if enough of us wake up, we can do something about it.

I intend to complain loudly when I get a chance to talk to the Logos. Their 'experiment' totally sucks, in my opinion. Would you like to join me?

i think maybe you need a reminder of what it feels like up there.

after you "complain loudly" i'm betting the logos (aka as you) will say to you something like, 'i work in mysterious ways, mofo. stop your bitching...for all is well - even when you can't perceive it is.'

[native]

Glad there isn't a misunderstanding.

Let me expand a bit more on what I was trying to say. I'm interested in what causes transformation. To me transformation seems to operate in opposite fashion of how we approach reality..which is that what is wrong must be corrected..the battle. How can something new be created, something more refined and whole be called into existence, by repetition of a pattern? I don't think anything positive is created through force.

"Love/light is the enabler, the power, the energy giver."

"Enlightenment is of the moment, is an opening to intelligent infinity. It can only be accomplished by the self, for the self. Another self cannot teach/learn enlightenment, but only teach/learn information, inspiration, or a sharing of love, of mystery, of the unknown that makes the other-self reach out and begin the seeking process that ends in a moment, but who can know when an entity will open the gate to the present?"

The question is how does one teach inspiration? What is inspiration exactly and how does it truly work on the magical level? To use an analogy, we are always holding onto a rope and pulling on both ends with each other..we're always resisting and the moment becomes moot..entropy..wasted energy. To radiate, to let go, to accept, to find relevant insight, to release control, to find love seems to act as the energy giver. I think when we do that, when we allow others (the infinite) to move and express themselves/itself rather than pull and create non-movement, we embody more of what is, the opposite energies mate and unify, creating spiritual wholeness that inspires and allows for new thoughts/possibility to resonate within the mind of the other individual on a metaphysical level. By radiating outwardly, it's as if you're sending out a light that offers a pathway for the other to find their way back home.

But those last two sentences kind of see the other as an object that requires changing or pulling something up to our level. So I think the task is to learn how to see ourselves or feel love for another, walking step by step alongside each other in the moment.

"To the disciplined entity, all things are open and free. The discipline which opens the universes opens also the gateways to evolution. The difference is that of choosing either to hitchhike to a place where beauty may be seen or to walk, step by step, independent and free in this independence to praise the strength to walk and the opportunity for the awareness of beauty."

"Thus we see protection being very simple. Give thanksgiving for each moment. See the self and the other-self as Creator. Open the heart. Always know the light and praise it. This is all the protection necessary."

This doesn't mean I've become numb..it's hard to explain the range of emotion I go through. Reality doesn't make sense and it's heartbreaking. I simply just wish we could all get along.

[Monica]

Isis: Then why bother ever serving others? Why did Ra even mention service to others? There's no point in ever doing anything. Just be apathetic...it doesn't matter anyway. There is no right or wrong...Choice means nothing. Anything goes. Go ahead and rape, kill, whatever...who cares? It's all good.

---

Glad there isn't a misunderstanding.

Let me expand a bit more on what I was trying to say. I'm interested in what causes transformation. To me transformation seems to operate in opposite fashion of how we approach reality..which is that what is wrong must be corrected..the battle. How can something new be created, something more refined and whole be called into existence, by repetition of a pattern? I don't think anything positive is created through force.

"Love/light is the enabler, the power, the energy giver."

"Enlightenment is of the moment, is an opening to intelligent infinity. It can only be accomplished by the self, for the self. Another self cannot teach/learn enlightenment, but only teach/learn information, inspiration, or a sharing of love, of mystery, of the unknown that makes the other-self reach out and begin the seeking process that ends in a moment, but who can know when an entity will open the gate to the present?"

The question is how does one teach inspiration? What is inspiration exactly and how does it truly work on the magical level? To use an analogy, we are always holding onto a rope and pulling on both ends with each other..we're always resisting and the moment becomes moot..entropy..wasted energy. To radiate, to let go, to accept, to find relevant insight, to release control, to find love seems to act as the energy giver. I think when we do that, when we allow others (the infinite) to move and express themselves/itself rather than pull and create non-movement, we embody more of what is, the opposite energies mate and unify, creating spiritual wholeness that inspires and allows for new thoughts/possibility to resonate within the mind of the other individual on a metaphysical level. By radiating outwardly, it's as if you're sending out a light that offers a pathway for the other to find their way back home.

But those last two sentences kind of see the other as an object that requires changing or pulling something up to our level. So I think the task is to learn how to see ourselves or feel love for another, walking step by step alongside each other in the moment.

I don't disagree with any of that. Radiating outwardly can manifest in different ways, depending on the nature of the individual. The monk quietly meditating on a mountaintop and the civil rights activist who facilitates massive changes in society are both serving others and radiating outwardly, just in different ways.

[native]

I don't disagree with any of that. Radiating outwardly can manifest in different ways, depending on the nature of the individual. The monk quietly meditating on a mountaintop and the civil rights activist who facilitates massive changes in society are both serving others and radiating outwardly, just in different ways.

Perhaps. Why/how does major catalyst come into being in certain societies and in others it does not? Not looking for an answer, it's just peculiar.

[Monica]

Perhaps. Why/how does major catalyst come into being in certain societies and in others it does not? Not looking for an answer, it's just peculiar.

That would be a good topic for its own thread.

[Shemaya]

Sure, but that isn't just happening to animals, how do you pick and choose what suffering to focus on when there is so much?

Hi Unbound,
That's a good question. Imo, I think you focus on what you feel passionate about, what your talents and gifts are or what you feel called to do.

I don't know you well, but my impression is that you are a kick-a** energy-worker and healer, and if you focus on that you will help to alleviate so much suffering. We each can't do everything, but if all of us do something we can turn the tides even more quickly.

The energy-work is really (really) important, vital because in is in the subtle fields of consciousness (as you know) and therefore foundational to what happens in manifestation. Transmutation and working with the energies to unblock, remove obstructions and clearing the old world 3D energy, so that 4D can flow through is really important alleviation of suffering work. It's not inaction just because it is work on the inner planes. (might appear that way to some, but things are truly not as they appear)

I hope this helps.

---

It is quite overwhelming at times.

Sure is

Compassion is a feeling and I think we shut down our emotions and get caught in the mind constantly. So I really would like to work on sending positive emotion to others at all times. I equate beingness with emotion/feeling.

I relate/equate beingness that way too. Getting to the pure emotion takes going through many layers and levels.

One thing that is tough for many STO folks (for me anyway) is realizing that pure anger is love. That was a tough one for me. I experienced anger in such a damaging way, that it was hard for me to understand God's anger, which is the anger and outrage we feel when we observe injustice, violence , and unrighteousness. It took me quite awhile to get to that understanding. I have held in (suppressed) my righteous anger many times. Not too healthy for the liver and gallbladder meridians!

In 16.50 Ra attempts to describe fourth density through words that are only able to approximate it. It's a state of pure joy where we're aware of the vibrations of each other.

And somehow we think we're going to get there by yelling and arguing with each other, through will and domination =/ It seems a necessary part of our own catalyst, to get over ourselves..and be in a place of pure love.

It sounds like that, doesn't it? But there is much more going on underneath the surface. I think anger can be pure as can any emotion.
The love that feels good and blissful and joyful is 4D. We know it and remember it and feel it sometimes/ lots of times. But we are struggling a bit in 3D, immersed in 3D energies of which domination is a big part in maintaining 3D in manifestation. So love (infinite energy) responds to that level of consciousness.

So I think we're only just learning to activate our true color green ray body, and leave this third density nonsense behind. If we seek harmony and wish to create harmony, one must be harmony. A simple message we seem to always forget.

Yes can't wait!!!! But there is work to do here in 3D. In order to clear and heal and fully activate the green ray, we take the catalyst day by day and clear and transmute the energy.

We are all passionate about different things and have different triggers and catalysts. The true transformation happens as we mix all these together with a united vision of where we want to go. (4D ) If we keep our vision united, the catalysts will work themselves out eventually. I think sometimes we jump too far ahead because 4D feels so totally awesome that we avoid, repress, or suppress that which is the moment.

Archetypally, this has to do (from my perspective) with the archetypes of the body. The hang-man, death and alchemist. I think this whole discussion and thread is about those archetypes in a deep way.

"64.4 The principle behind any ritual of the white magical nature is to so configure the stimuli which reach down into the trunk of mind that this arrangement causes the generation of disciplined and purified emotion or love which then may be both protection and the key to the gateway to intelligent infinity."

My teacher is a trickster, white magician, so I understand!