[split] "Some people eat animals, some don't."

[Diana]

From what I observed people are usually more disturbed at violence toward dogs and cats than humans, so it's all very relative.

I don't know how you get this idea. Maybe animals rights groups have brought this issue into the news, and so you think people care more about animals. But I don't understand this observation at all in the bigger picture of humanity.

[Matt1]

I don't consider this to be a speciesist view, as i do take into the understanding the values and rights to animals. Nobody is talking about torturing or harming animals here. The higher second density animals that are moving towards self awareness are the domesticated house pets.

I AM talking about torturing and harming animals. 

And to me, all life is sacred. As Jade and Monica pointed out, there is no demarcation line between animals worthy of our compassion and animals who are not. So the choice has to be made: what life do I take to sustain my physical vehicle. There are many things to consider, which is why threads like this exist.

Anyone who values human life over other life, is in my opinion, displaying speciesism. I do realize that the subject matter is not simple, however.

Sure all things are sacred all things are one, but everything has its place in the divine creation, its purpose, its pre incarnative lessons/cataylst. I agree animals are worthy of compassion. I don't agree with mass farming but i also think that if done correctly the processing of animals can be done to limit the harming of the 2nd density entity. I used to be vegetarian for a couple of years, i could do it fairly easily but i like eating meats. Does that make me a negative entity?

[Diana]

Sure all things are sacred all things are one, but everything has its place in the divine creation, its purpose, its pre incarnative lessons/cataylst. I agree animals are worthy of compassion. I don't agree with mass farming but i also think that if done correctly the processing of animals can be done to limit the harming of the 2nd density entity. I used to be vegetarian for a couple of years, i could do it fairly easily but i like eating meats. Does that make me a negative entity?

No. You must make the choices based on what you are aware of. If one is aware of the cruelty behind commercial animal farming, and one still chooses to eat the meat produced this way, then it is up to the individual whether they are okay with that decision. It's not for me or anyone else to say. I am only discussing the subject matter, not trying to judge anyone. I can see how this can get confusing. Because there is also the aspect of the entities (animals) being farmed by humans. So if a member here talks about that, it does not follow that they are judging anyone here—rather, they may just be focusing on compassion for living beings other than human.

And yet our reactions to things are messages for ourselves. If anyone here finds themselves in a defensive mode, observing one's reactions would probably be enlightening. I am not saying that because I think I'm right and you are wrong. I am saying it because we all have the "knowing" I spoke of earlier in the thread, and when we align with it it feels "right" for us. But when we are out of alignment with our knowing, we get twinges, are triggered, feel in defense of ourselves. This is aside from the fact that we are all here, and I say commendably, discussing a very touchy and triggering subject, which takes courage on everyone's part.

[Monica]

I agree animals are worthy of compassion. I don't agree with mass farming but i also think that if done correctly the processing of animals can be done to limit the harming of the 2nd density entity.

Reduce the suffering, yes. Eliminate the suffering, No.

When a woman is raped and murdered, we think that's heinous.

But when a woman is first tortured for hours, days, or weeks, and then raped and murdered, we think that's even more heinous, right?

It is the same with animals. It doesn't matter who the victim is. Or course, torturing the victim before raping and killing them is even more heinous that just raping and killing them.

Most commercially produced meat and dairy is the direct result of not only raping and killing, but ongoing torture as well. This goes for grocery store meats and dairy, the meat and dairy at restaurants, fast food, etc. Does every person who professes to buy 'humane' meat and dairy never ever eat at restaurants? Not likely. It's nothing more than a warm and fuzzy "Oh I feel better" attempt at soothing one's conscience.

So-called 'humane' meat is just killing, or maybe raping and killing, without the torture. Yeah, it is less cruelty, but is that really saying a whole lot? "Oh, I just don't torture them first before I kill them." Does that farmer get a medal? Does the person buying it get a medal?

I used to be vegetarian for a couple of years, i could do it fairly easily but i like eating meats. Does that make me a negative entity?

I cannot assess your overall negativity/positivity or polarity, so I cannot answer your question.

A better question might be: Is your choice to eat meat based on serving self at the expense of others? And, is it truly necessary, or just because you enjoy it? You already answered that question.

...

[Minyatur]

From what I observed people are usually more disturbed at violence toward dogs and cats than humans, so it's all very relative.

I don't know how you get this idea. Maybe animals rights groups have brought this issue into the news, and so you think people care more about animals. But I don't understand this observation at all in the bigger picture of humanity.

Just from what I observed.

 People would get much more outraged at hearing someone beated up a dog than someone beating up someone else for example.

[Minyatur]

I have very huge serious doubts that me going vegan would save the life of a single animal.

It wouldn't. But, collectively, the more people who go vegan, the more the market IS affected. It's already happening. 

Meat Consumption Plummeting

But that’s changing, and considering the fairly steady climb in meat consumption over the last half-century, you might say the numbers are plummeting. The department of agriculture projects that our meat and poultry consumption will fall again this year, to about 12.2 percent less in 2012 than it was in 2007. Beef consumption has been in decline for about 20 years; the drop in chicken is even more dramatic, over the last five years or so; pork also has been steadily slipping for about five years.

Simple supply-and-demand dictates that the more the market declines, the fewer animals will be killed to meet the demand. Of course, the population is also increasing, so the net result is that more animals are still being killed. But per capita, meat consumption is way less.

So you do agree that the whole point is actively trying to make it something collective? Individual consumption having no actual power on the balance itself if one doesn't wish to partake to this group work.

With that said, my point is that going vegan or not won't matter unless your goal is to be on a crusade to convert others, which would definitely not be my case even as a vegan. 

The goal isn't to convert anyone to anything. The goal is to answer the call of the 2D entities.

Well you hear these calls and cannot hear others, just like others will hear some you cannot hear while not hearing these ones.

So there's trauma and negative energies within the meat? Fine i'll take it upon myself and transmute it along with the rest of my inner darkness

That will serve you, but it won't serve the animal.

It's not necessarily serving me, it actually adds up very small amounts to the work I have to do on myself, slowing it down.

Likewise, does not eating the animal serve him or serve yourself? (the animal being already killed of course) In my animal consumption I do believe I am dealing with the 1D foodstuff and not 2D animal whose soul already is elsewhere.

and take what has already been sacrified with grattitude and compassion for the path that was taken by the said animal.

The animals didn't sacrifice themselves. They are being killed against their will. That isn't a sacrifice because it wasn't done willingly.

Ultimately I do believe each and every experience is chosen as building blocks to create what we are to become, and that's quite a lot of them throughout each densities. The freewill infringer being a tool/catalyst created by the victim to pursue it's path. Well we spoke of this quite a lot already, the "sad" notion where you've always only been what you were needed to be and where you were needed to be since your very origination. Moving in awareness through the strings of time, space and fate.

I did call it path because I do associate my own with this kind of path and I do not think what comes out of it is worthless. You are of course free to disagree.

Honnestly if this planet would turn vegan overnight, I wouldn't mind it. I just think it's not the only aspect that needs focus to be worked on.

Of course it's Not the only issue that needs to be worked on. But it is a very big issue, one of the biggest issues that affects us all.

...

I do think it is more of a manifestation of a more complex and less physical issue, this being one of the apparent physical manifestations of it.

I wouldn't have chosen the earth to incarnate because of it's meat eating, it's just already there whether I eat meat or not.

[Monica]

So you do agree that the whole point is actively trying to make it something collective? Individual consumption having no actual power on the balance itself if one doesn't wish to partake to this group work.

No, I don't agree at all. Each of us has an opportunity to do our part. All of the power to effect change rests on the individual. We live in a holographic universe. The collective is made up of individuals.

Well you hear these calls and cannot hear others, just like others will hear some you cannot hear while not hearing these ones.

Entities who aren't sentient cannot call. Ra answered the call of 2D entities. That lone should be enough to know that they are sentient.

It's not necessarily serving me, it actually adds up very small amounts to the work I have to do on myself, slowing it down.

Then it's even more of a waste.

Likewise, does not eating the animal serve him or serve yourself? (the animal being already killed of course) In my animal consumption I do believe I am dealing with the 1D foodstuff and not 2D animal whose soul already is elsewhere.

Yes, that animal's soul is already elsewhere. But our choices affect those not yet killed. Setting our intentions to do what we can to help awaken people to the atrocities they are unwittingly supporting, can indeed serve many entities, both human and animal, as well as the planet.

Ultimately I do believe each and every experience is chosen as building blocks to create what we are to become, and that's quite a lot of them throughout each densities. The freewill infringer being a tool/catalyst created by the victim to pursue it's path.

Yes, of course. This is about actually being the freewill infringer.

I did call it path because I do associate my own with this kind of path and I do not think what comes out of it is worthless. You are of course free to disagree.

I don't disagree that it has worth. I disagree about participating in the suffering of others, which I consider the task of negative entities.

I wouldn't have chosen the earth to incarnate because of it's meat eating, it's just already there whether I eat meat or not.

So are war, murder, rape, and myriad other negative things. But most of us aren't directly participating in those things on a daily basis, while attempting to justify them.

...

[Minyatur]

So you do agree that the whole point is actively trying to make it something collective? Individual consumption having no actual power on the balance itself if one doesn't wish to partake to this group work.

No, I don't agree at all. Each of us has an opportunity to do our part. All of the power to effect change rests on the individual. We live in a holographic universe. The collective is made up of individuals.

I do agree with that, though I do think there are many areas to do our part and being vegan without actively trying to change others wouldn't add to anything to change the collective, except perhaps having a little more wasted meat in what is already produced.

Well you hear these calls and cannot hear others, just like others will hear some you cannot hear while not hearing these ones.

Entities who aren't sentient cannot call. Ra answered the call of 2D entities. That lone should be enough to know that they are sentient.

I didn't speak of sentient vs non-sentient which also is an interesting topic. From your perspective, would higher densities beings not be sentient because they have no physical nervous system? Or is being sentient something more on a metaphysical level of consciousness?

It's not necessarily serving me, it actually adds up very small amounts to the work I have to do on myself, slowing it down.

Then it's even more of a waste.

Well the negative energy is there, if I do transmute it then it it stops being negative energy and helps the planetary vibration in an extremely small way.

You were right in this being a service to myself though, just that it is an other matter which I would not consider a waste either. You could say I have my own reasons for slowing the process down.

Likewise, does not eating the animal serve him or serve yourself? (the animal being already killed of course) In my animal consumption I do believe I am dealing with the 1D foodstuff and not 2D animal whose soul already is elsewhere.

Yes, that animal's soul is already elsewhere. But our choices affect those not yet killed. Setting our intentions to do what we can to help awaken people to the atrocities they are unwittingly supporting, can indeed serve many entities, both human and animal, as well as the planet.

To go back to what I have said earlier, it's about "help awaken people to the atrocities they are unwittingly supporting". So about working on this one particular focus and bringing it out to the collective.

Because like I said, as an individual whether I meat or not from my perspective would not save any life nor prevent any attrocities. Though if you were to tell me I am currently hindering your work in lowering these attrocities, then I'd oblige to stop.

Ultimately I do believe each and every experience is chosen as building blocks to create what we are to become, and that's quite a lot of them throughout each densities. The freewill infringer being a tool/catalyst created by the victim to pursue it's path.

Yes, of course. This is about actually being the freewill infringer.

Eating what already is slaugthered could hardly be considered free will infringement in term of one's polarity. At this point what we are dealing with is an 1D entity which is not sentient from your description of things.

I did call it path because I do associate my own with this kind of path and I do not think what comes out of it is worthless. You are of course free to disagree.

I don't disagree that it has worth. I disagree about participating in the suffering of others, which I consider the task of negative entities.

I do agree it is a personal choice of one own's polarity in what service is provided, altough you could say many negative entities from your description of free will did not necessarily wish to be what they are.

In 3D we are neither postive nor negative entities. And negative entities have more to do than consuming meat, I'm sure some hardworking negative wanderers could be vegan to be more efficient in what they do.

I wouldn't have chosen the earth to incarnate because of it's meat eating, it's just already there whether I eat meat or not.

So are war, murder, rape, and myriad other negative things. But most of us aren't directly participating in those things on a daily basis, while attempting to justify them.

Well we read stories about war, murder, rape, etc which could be considered consuming them in a way or rather consuming their by-products. Just like I consume the by-product of animal slaugthering while not creating it myself.

If human civilizations were vegan, I'd be the last one to go hunting for meat. But they're not whatever I do eat.

---

My main point being, it's not black and white but rather nuances of grey.

[Monica]

I do agree with that, though I do think there are many areas to do our part and being vegan without actively trying to change others

It's Not about changing others. It's about championing the oppressed. This is an important distinction. Championing the oppressed is the very definition of being vegan. It's impossible to be vegan and not champion the victims of the meat/dairy industry.

Those who choose to avoid meat/dairy for health reasons are called plant-based. That does help the cause, to be sure, but it isn't the same thing as being vegan.

wouldn't add to anything to change the collective, except perhaps having a little more wasted meat in what is already produced.

You seem to be looking at this very short-term.

I didn't speak of sentient vs non-sentient which also is an interesting topic.

The issue of sentience has been discussed quite a lot in many of these meat threads.

From your perspective, would higher densities beings not be sentient because they have no physical nervous system? Or is being sentient something more on a metaphysical level of consciousness?

Entities in the higher densities are Not only sentient, but more highly evolved than 3D entities. My understanding of a SMC is that 4D+ entities retain their individual consciousness, while merging that consciousness with those of others.

In the context of entities incarnate in this physical reality, sentience means being aware of oneself as an individual, while incarnate in a physical body, as opposed to, say, a single blade of grass which is part of a group consciousness, not yet individuated.

Pain receptors and a nervous system are physical indicators of sentience, of entities who inhabit a physical vehicle. It has no relevance or applicability to entities who aren't incarnate.

Well the negative energy is there, if I do transmute it then it it stops being negative energy and helps the planetary vibration in an extremely small way.

Raising the vibration of dead matter doesn't help the victim at all.

You seem fixated on the matter after the animal has been killed. My focus is on not killing the animal.

Yes, animals are being killed. True, skipping the meat at a single meal won't save any animals.

But making a stand on this issue does, over time, affect the collective consciousness and that stance will ripple out and will absolutely help the victims.

You were right in this being a service to myself though, just that it is an other matter which I would not consider a waste either. You could say I have my own reasons for slowing the process down.

What process are you referring to?

Though if you were to tell me I am currently hindering your work in lowering these attrocities, then I'd oblige to stop.

What? Is that all I needed to say? Gosh, if I'd known that I would have said it a lot sooner!  

You are hindering my work in lowering those atrocities. Please stop. Please help me raise awareness.    

In 3D we are neither postive nor negative entities.

?? All 3D entities are of mixed polarity. What do you mean there are neither positive nor negative?

Well we read stories about war, murder, rape, etc which could be considered consuming them in a way or rather consuming their by-products. Just like I consume the by-product of animal slaugthering while not creating it myself.

What you're missing is that meat and dairy aren't byproducts of animal slaughter.

The demand for meat and dairy is the cause of animal slaughter. It's what drives it.

Reading about wars isn't the same as directly causing wars.

Consuming meat and dairy directly contributes to the demand for them, thus directly contributing to the cause.

...

[Minyatur]

Entities in the higher densities are Not only sentient, but more highly evolved than 3D entities. My understanding of a Social Memory Complex is that 4D+ entities retain their individual consciousness, while merging that consciousness with those of others.

In the context of entities incarnate in this physical reality, sentience means being aware of oneself as an individual, while incarnate in a physical body, as opposed to, say, a single blade of grass which is part of a group consciousness, not yet individuated.

Pain receptors and a nervous system are physical indicators of sentience, of entities who inhabit a physical vehicle. It has no relevance or applicability to entities who aren't incarnate.

Well this isn't so much what I was talking about when speaking of "calls", just that while having this focus there are many other things that remain out of focus.

Whether sentient or not, you could argue that a metaphysical trauma is placed upon consciousness though.

What process are you referring to?

My own healing process.

What? Is that all I needed to say? Gosh, if I'd known that I would have said it a lot sooner!  

You are hindering my work in lowering those atrocities. Please stop. Please help me raise awareness.    

I have refrained from furthering my thought on some parts because of this, which is well as I tend to turn in circles.

Perhaps one day I'll be raising awareness on this, who knows.

?? All 3D entities are of mixed polarity. What do you mean there are neither positive nor negative?

Exactly what you said, that 3D entities are of mixed polarity.

[Monica]

My own healing process.

Blessings to you for healing!

Exactly what you said, that 3D entities are of mixed polarity.

Yes, but they are presumably polarizing. 3D is the density of Choice. The objective is to polarize, and no longer be so mixed, but attain a level of polarity for harvest.

[Minyatur]

Exactly what you said, that 3D entities are of mixed polarity.

Yes, but they are presumably polarizing. 3D is the density of Choice. The objective is to polarize, and no longer be so mixed, but attain a level of polarity for harvest.

Sure but 3D leaves a lot of room in being harvestable. 

Not that it necessarily matters about this.

[tamaryn]

Is eating mammals cannibalism? Since all animals are trying to elevate their consciousness until they may reach third plane, human level.

Kinda gross, but I think differently about consuming red meat now. And bless the meal and the energy of the animal so I may transmute its sick energy. Still tastes just the same though

[Matt1]

Ok, so i decided to go back to being Vegetarian Again.

I saw this article and started to wonder if animals do have self awareness, looking at there faces it seems that they do indeed have awareness.

http://www.earthporm.com/animal-bellies/...e_392=4648

I also drew the tarot card strength or experience of the body in relation to if i should go back to being Veggie, so it seems that it was the right choice to begin with.

[Monica]

Ok, so i decided to go back to being Vegetarian Again.

Oh what a nice surprise!  

I saw this article and started to wonder if animals do have self awareness, looking at there faces it seems that they do indeed have awareness.

http://www.earthporm.com/animal-bellies/...e_392=4648

How cute! OMG I love the turtle! What a face!

My dogs and cats all love belly rubs! I make a point of giving them all (8) individual attention every day. If I miss my special belly-rubbing time with my Shepherd mix, she gets on the couch and rolls over and waits patiently for me. If I miss my special reading time with my cats, where one of them always perches on my arm, he will meow plaintively to let me know!

One of my dogs learned to wash her face like a cat, after watching the cats do it. So cute!

You might enjoy this:

Bring4th Forums One > Olio  v > 2D Entities Evolving?

The thread got derailed so most of the good stuff is towards the end of it. I need to update that thread. There are a lot more of them on youtube now.

I suspect it's just like with humans; there are varying degrees of self-awareness among animals, just as there are varying degrees of love among humans. But it's there in all of them to some degree, just some more than others. And it doesn't seem to matter what species they are, just like it doesn't matter what race/ethnicity humans are. The same traits (intelligence, emotions, social structures, friendship, even playing tricks on others!) have been observed in many wild animals too, as well as farm animals. It definitely isn't just pets. Some of those videos in the above-linked thread are wild birds! Even fish! Showing clear evidence of self-awareness and even rational thought, even planning ahead and strategy! I was floored by the one of the bird picking up humans' trash and depositing it in the trash can, and there are several of swans and ducks feeding goldfish. Then there's the one of the bear saving the bird...that shows not only self-awareness but even awareness of an other-self! Something many humans don't even do.

The demarcation between animals and humans is much fuzzier than we thought.

I also drew the tarot card strength or experience of the body in relation to if i should go back to being Veggie, so it seems that it was the right choice to begin with.

Wonderful!

You might find this helpful:

Bring4th Forums Two > Health & Diet  v > Vegetarianism Made E-Z (Recipes and Stuff - NO debate allowed here!)

Blessings to you on your vegetarian venture!  

[Jade]

Hey Matt, glad you came around on that one! There are lots of meat substitutes that are tasty that might help you get by - nothing like that irony blood of rare red meat but just about everything else is replicable. I tried some fish filets the other day and couldn't even eat them they were too real haha.

I know you're still wavering so I wanted to add something else to what you said -

I don't consider this to be a speciesist view, as i do take into the understanding the values and rights to animals. Nobody is talking about torturing or harming animals here. The higher second density animals that are moving towards self awareness are the domesticated house pets.

Farm animals are definitely "domesticated", and in fact are handled almost all day every day by humans investing very negative emotions into them. I do think a large majority of the animals that incarnate into factory farms are part of the "group mind" but I definitely think awareness comes about in situations where one is abused and tortured by more sentient species. House pets are one way to harvest 2nd density into third, factory farms are definitely another.

[Diana]

Ok, so i decided to go back to being Vegetarian Again.

I saw this article and started to wonder if animals do have self awareness, looking at there faces it seems that they do indeed have awareness.

http://www.earthporm.com/animal-bellies/...e_392=4648

I also drew the tarot card strength or experience of the body in relation to if i should go back to being Veggie, so it seems that it was the right choice to begin with.

That's awesome. 

Thank you for your honesty and courage.

[Diana]

[Aion]

Wow, I just gotta say it blows my mind the difference in response. As soon as Matt1 announces he's going Vegetarian there is fanfare and excitement but anyone doing less is met with psychological warfare.

I don't think I can participate in this thread anymore. Much love to you all, thank you for sharing your views.

[Minyatur]

Wow, I just gotta say it blows my mind the difference in response. As soon as Matt1 announces he's going Vegetarian there is fanfare and excitement but anyone doing less is met with psychological warfare.

I don't think I can participate in this thread anymore. Much love to you all, thank you for sharing your views.

That's why I said it's not about discussing the issue but instead converting others to one way of life.

[Aion]

I'm not even complaining, it just surprised me the instant flip in emotion and approach. I understand, I just have nothing more to offer.

[Diana]

Wow, I just gotta say it blows my mind the difference in response. As soon as Matt1 announces he's going Vegetarian there is fanfare and excitement but anyone doing less is met with psychological warfare.

I don't think I can participate in this thread anymore. Much love to you all, thank you for sharing your views.

This just isn't true, Aion. I am truly staying openminded about the subject matter. I listen to what you and others are saying and hear your points of view. 

My response to Matt1 was not because I want to be right, or that he did something I wanted him to do; rather, it was from the animals. But I didn't exactly say that because it seems so soppy. But I wanted to thank Matt1 on behalf of the animals. And so I do that now.

[Diana]

Wow, I just gotta say it blows my mind the difference in response. As soon as Matt1 announces he's going Vegetarian there is fanfare and excitement but anyone doing less is met with psychological warfare.

I don't think I can participate in this thread anymore. Much love to you all, thank you for sharing your views.

That's why I said it's not about discussing the issue but instead converting others to one way of life.

This isn't true either.

It is about discussing. 

I am really frustrated with the lack of tolerance I get here in threads like this. How else can I discuss something without saying what I think? Is it not okay to have a different perspective? Is it not okay to try and get other members, who are willingly participating in canvassing a subject, to understand what I think?

If you have a better way for me to go about discussing this, let me know.

[Monica]

Wow, I just gotta say it blows my mind the difference in response. As soon as Matt1 announces he's going Vegetarian there is fanfare and excitement but anyone doing less is met with psychological warfare.

I don't think I can participate in this thread anymore. Much love to you all, thank you for sharing your views.

??? I extended lots of love and support to YOU back in #89, and offered suggestions and encouragement, even though you didn't go veg. Maybe you missed it?

http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.ph...#pid190063

That post was supportive. No way can you say it was 'psychological warfare.'

Regarding Matt's decision, were we supposed to just ignore it? Gosh, damned if I do, damned if I don't. Awhile back, in the old meat thread, someone decided to go veg, and at that time I avoided ever praising anyone lest I be accused of 'fanfare and excitement' while 'judging' those who didn't. So I tried to just remain neutral, and guess what happened? They complained because I didn't give any acknowledgement or praise!!  So this time, I just decided to do what I felt was natural to me, and that was expressing my encouragement and support for Matt. I did the same for you, but in a different way. You can't expect me to pin a medal on someone for their choice to continue eating meat. Why does it matter anyway? If you are secure in your decisions, my praise shouldn't matter.

Anyway, I reached out to you with support and encouragement to help your situation, no strings attached. I guess that counts for nothing just because I also showed support and encouragement for someone who decided to go veg.

So yeah, damned if I do, damned if I don't!  

[Monica]

That's why I said it's not about discussing the issue but instead converting others to one way of life.

That's offensive, especially coming from you of all people. You should know by now that we don't want to 'convert' anyone to our 'way of life' but are championing the oppressed. There is a HUGE distinction and I know you're smart enough to get it.

...

[Monica]

There are lots of meat substitutes that are tasty that might help you get by - nothing like that irony blood of rare red meat but just about everything else is replicable.

Even the bloody rare meat is now available!

Bloody Vegan Rare Meat

...

[Minyatur]

That's why I said it's not about discussing the issue but instead converting others to one way of life.

That's offensive, especially coming from you of all people. You should know by now that we don't want to 'convert' anyone to our 'way of life' but are championing the oppressed. There is a HUGE distinction and I know you're smart enough to get it.

...

I think it's a blending of both, because unless one "converts" it goes on and on.

Don't worry Monica, I am well aware that you do this because all of this suffering makes your heart ache. No hard feelings.

[Aion]

Wow, I just gotta say it blows my mind the difference in response. As soon as Matt1 announces he's going Vegetarian there is fanfare and excitement but anyone doing less is met with psychological warfare.

I don't think I can participate in this thread anymore. Much love to you all, thank you for sharing your views.

??? I extended lots of love and support to YOU back in #89, and offered suggestions and encouragement, even though you didn't go veg. Maybe you missed it?

http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.ph...#pid190063

That post was supportive. No way can you say it was 'psychological warfare.'

Regarding Matt's decision, were we supposed to just ignore it? Gosh, damned if I do, damned if I don't. Awhile back, in the old meat thread, someone decided to go veg, and at that time I avoided ever praising anyone lest I be accused of 'fanfare and excitement' while 'judging' those who didn't. So I tried to just remain neutral, and guess what happened? They complained because I didn't give any acknowledgement or praise!!  So this time, I just decided to do what I felt was natural to me, and that was expressing my encouragement and support for Matt. I did the same for you, but in a different way. You can't expect me to pin a medal on someone for their choice to continue eating meat. Why does it matter anyway? If you are secure in your decisions, my praise shouldn't matter.

Anyway, I reached out to you with support and encouragement to help your situation, no strings attached. I guess that counts for nothing just because I also showed support and encouragement for someone who decided to go veg.

So yeah, damned if I do, damned if I don't!  

Well the biggest challenge to being a Breatharian is that others get worried. Honestly if it was just me, by myself, with no one else to worry about then yeah, I would probably be a Breatharian.

My reaction wasn't really about praise or lack thereof, I can't really describe it, a shift in emotional atmosphere. Maybe it was more the difference between concern and happiness or something similar. There was just something about the 'ease' with which Matt1 was embraced when I feel like all I've wanted is to feel accepted but have to claw tooth and nail to feel I'm not 'evil'. Yes, by all means, these are my issues.

In the end though, I think I've just exhausted myself and exasperated my thoughts. It feels like I want something so simple, but I don't think there is any reason for me to get it. No, that is not on any of you, just me with myself.

[Monica]

I think it's a blending of both, because unless one "converts" it goes on and on.

Don't worry Monica, I am well aware that you do this because all of this suffering makes your heart ache. No hard feelings.

Thankfully, the abolitionists didn't stop until slavery was declared illegal. That's what activists do, when there's oppression.

Thank you for understanding that yes, it's very difficult for us. I am just trying to make the distinction that it isn't about 'converting to a way of life' like converting to a religion or something like that. You know how religious people like to convert others, and want others to think like they do. In that case, it is very different because those of differing beliefs aren't hurting anyone, so there's a lack of acceptance for those who choose to live and believe differently. Look at how they don't accept gays even though gays aren't hurting anyone.

This is different because there are victims. It isn't about one's 'way of life' but the focus is on championing the victims.

It's a subtle but important distinction.

...

[Diana]

That's why I said it's not about discussing the issue but instead converting others to one way of life.

That's offensive, especially coming from you of all people. You should know by now that we don't want to 'convert' anyone to our 'way of life' but are championing the oppressed. There is a HUGE distinction and I know you're smart enough to get it.

...

I think it's a blending of both, because unless one "converts" it goes on and on.

Don't worry Monica, I am well aware that you do this because all of this suffering makes your heart ache. No hard feelings.

I can understand your response to Monica, Minyatur, (though I don't agree that going on and on until there are converts is the only outcome), but what you said above originally is judgmental and adds to the intolerance at this forum for vegetarians. It adds to the ignorance of seeing other sides of things, which, if I know you at all, does not align with your mindset.