Approaching those on the dogmatic path...

[hobbvin82]

I browsed through the thread here, and didn't see one that covered this subject, so I figured I would start a new thread, and hopefully gain some clarity through response.

I am finding that as I progress on my spiritual journey, my beliefs clash dramatically with our Brother's, and Sister's on the, what I would call, "Dogmatic Path".
I also find that even when I approach the situation with absolute love, it is rejected, and I get a slew of Bible quotes thrown at me. I find this is more common online, than in my personal life.

I find that in my personal day to day life, I am surrounded by very spiritual people. I guess that was the plan along. We are in the environments we chose to better help us learn, and grow.

Anyway, so I don't do it often, but I sometimes leave responses to YouTube videos. My responses all convey appreciation, and love. I have also started adding disclaimers like L/L Research does. I do this on Facebook as well, when I share a thought. However, no matter what I say in my responses, validating the paths of others, and simply sharing my opinion, I receive almost absolute rejection.

Even in the face of rejection, I simply respond back with another validation of their path, and I send them love. I don't continue the responses beyond that, as I feel it would be an infringement on their free will, and a debate is pointless, as all paths are correct in my eyes.

I am just wondering if I should simply avoid responding in the first place. I guess it is my hope when I respond that, if someone is following the Bible, then they will respond in love, as Jesus taught. I am usually wrong, as it seems that some people would rather focus on the negative aspects of the Bible.

I guess I am wondering if anyone else experiences this, and how you approach it? I'm starting to feel that maybe all I can do is send them love, instead of an actual response.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

[Jade]

Here is where I see the problem: You are sending these people love in an effort to actively change their ways. You must try to find a place where you can offer others love without expecting ANYTHING in return, including that they will respond with love to you. It's best to go into any situation without expecting an outcome.

They respond by feeling rejected because you are not accepting them as they are, you are trying to make them into something else. Service to others is about allowing people the full spectrum of experiences, especially if they are not hurting anyone. A youtube video seems like a pretty innocuous demon to be battling.

What is bothering you about these people - are they preaching negative philosophies? Sending love without directly contacting them is probably a better approach, though you would still benefit from cultivating a love born out of acceptance and love for their being as perfect in the moment.

[BlatzAdict]

I browsed through the thread here, and didn't see one that covered this subject, so I figured I would start a new thread, and hopefully gain some clarity through response.

I am finding that as I progress on my spiritual journey, my beliefs clash dramatically with our Brother's, and Sister's on the, what I would call, "Dogmatic Path".
I also find that even when I approach the situation with absolute love, it is rejected, and I get a slew of Bible quotes thrown at me. I find this is more common online, than in my personal life.

I find that in my personal day to day life, I am surrounded by very spiritual people. I guess that was the plan along. We are in the environments we chose to better help us learn, and grow.

Anyway, so I don't do it often, but I sometimes leave responses to YouTube videos. My responses all convey appreciation, and love. I have also started adding disclaimers like L/L Research does. I do this on Facebook as well, when I share a thought. However, no matter what I say in my responses, validating the paths of others, and simply sharing my opinion, I receive almost absolute rejection.

Even in the face of rejection, I simply respond back with another validation of their path, and I send them love. I don't continue the responses beyond that, as I feel it would be an infringement on their free will, and a debate is pointless, as all paths are correct in my eyes.

I am just wondering if I should simply avoid responding in the first place. I guess it is my hope when I respond that, if someone is following the Bible, then they will respond in love, as Jesus taught. I am usually wrong, as it seems that some people would rather focus on the negative aspects of the Bible.

I guess I am wondering if anyone else experiences this, and how you approach it? I'm starting to feel that maybe all I can do is send them love, instead of an actual response.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

This is life teaching you that no matter what in third density even as a wanderer you cannot violate the law of free will. Those who are not ready to hear what you have to say will always react in that same way.
That may be the part Ra describes as folly with the wanderers incarnating into 3rd density. With that said learn to find those who are ready to listen as opposed to those whose cups are already full.

[hobbvin82]

Here is where I see the problem: You are sending these people love in an effort to actively change their ways. You must try to find a place where you can offer others love without expecting ANYTHING in return, including that they will respond with love to you. It's best to go into any situation without expecting an outcome.

They respond by feeling rejected because you are not accepting them as they are, you are trying to make them into something else. Service to others is about allowing people the full spectrum of experiences, especially if they are not hurting anyone. A youtube video seems like a pretty innocuous demon to be battling.

What is bothering you about these people - are they preaching negative philosophies? Sending love without directly contacting them is probably a better approach, though you would still benefit from cultivating a love born out of acceptance and love for their being as perfect in the moment.

That's the thing though. I am not trying to change them at all, as I feel that all paths are correct. If I am coming across as trying to actively change their minds, then that is a matter of perception. I even add a disclaimer regarding using their own discernment. I know that all paths, no matter where they are lead back to the Creator.

So, it's not a matter of me not accepting them. The roles are switched, as they are trying to convince me that their view is accurate, and of the ramifications if I don't adhere to said view.

I think I will simply send them love without actively engaging.

[hobbvin82]

This is life teaching you that no matter what in third density even as a wanderer you cannot violate the law of free will. Those who are not ready to hear what you have to say will always react in that same way.
That may be the part Ra describes as folly with the wanderers incarnating into 3rd density. With that said learn to find those who are ready to listen as opposed to those whose cups are already full.

I feel you are absolutely right. Perhaps I was violating their free will without even being fully aware of it. It's difficult to tell at times, what is infringement, and what isn't. I guess I'll just ask myself, "Has this person asked for this information?"

I guess, I should just hold back, and wait for those who are seeking the information to come to me. I just get so motivated to help, that sometimes I guess I forget that not everyone is ready yet.

[Jade]

There are plenty of people who need help, and you should continue to go where you feel called, but just be open to learning new things from your "failures". That's really all that it's about.

For example, even if your youtube comment had a perceived "negative" effective on the person making the video, maybe their aggravated response to your loving messages may be a nudge to someone else to take the more loving path. So, being motivated by love, it's likely that your words will have an effect somewhere, even if it's not exactly the direct one that's desired.

And look, I gave you terrible advice, but who knows, maybe someone else will get value from my words at some other point in the future, and hopefully I can learn from it. Onward with love!

[Manjushri]

commenting on Facebook and YouTube, especially in matters of trying to de-dogmatise another self will only create severe blue ray blockages. Rather than teach dogmatics, learn from them first. They have found their guru, no need to replace Him.

[hobbvin82]

commenting on Facebook and YouTube, especially in matters of trying to de-dogmatise another self will only create severe blue ray blockages. Rather than teach dogmatics, learn from them first. They have found their guru, no need to replace Him.

Thank you for your response, and I guess I can see your point.

However, I never said that I was trying to "de-dogmatise" someone. I simply responded to a pretty negative video with a loving response, and shared my own thoughts. I even made an effort to validate his view, as I feel that, while I disagree with him, I accept that his path is different from mine.

I would NEVER try and force my beliefs on to someone else. It was my hope that it would at least plant a seed of love. You can read what I posted below.

*Please use your own discernment when reading this comment. If it does not speak to you, leave it.*

I agree that we are seeing the signs, and have been for a number of years. What is disconcerting isn't that the Harvest is upon us, but that some of the Watchers who are starting to share their knowledge are using scare tactics. I prefer your videos because you aren't trying to scare anyone, and I can see that you are coming from a place of love. No one should be afraid, because all is well, and everything will be okay. This is a transition period for us, and we should be joyful. We also should be sharing that joy with others, to help plant the seeds of God's love. I know what the Bible says, but I disagree with any negative aspect of the Harvest. Skewing that love to scare others into believing something they are not yet ready for, is an infringement on their free will. All we can do is plant seeds. It is up to the individual to nourish that seed, and let it grow, through meditation, prayer, and contemplation.

If they choose not to, then that is their choice, because they are not yet ready. This doesn't mean that they are not worthy of God's love. We ARE God's love, as we are his creation, his children. To be separate from Him is not at all possible. All paths lead back to the light. Some just take longer than others. As you are spending time looking for signs, take a moment to go find the silence within. Meditate, Pray, Contemplate. Whichever you feel suits you. Your journey back to our Creator is yours alone. You make the choices, and control what occurs along the path.

Be a beacon for God's love, and others will notice. We are all in this together. There is no one above or below you. We are all one, all connected with everything in this existence. Give thanks that you are aware of that. Approach every person, and situation with love, and you can't lose. There is no judgement. There is no right, nor wrong. There is only love. Break free of the chains of this physical world. Seek to know yourself, as the infinite spiritual being that you are. Seek my friends. Love my Brother's, and Sister's. That is our way home.

Be at peace, and shine with the infinite light, and love of God.

Perhaps, I shouldn't have used the word "should". Though, I was expressing my own belief. I really don't know how my message could have been taken as being negative, but I guess it's all a matter of perception.

[Manjushri]

Regardless of what you think your intention is, replies on YouTube and Facebook are read by the masses. Typing a large bit of inspiration followed by "That is our way home" could be perceived by another self as your idea of a replacement for their established religious beliefs. Quite easily, I suspect.

I understand your query of "should I just not reply in the first place?" If commenting is what brings the Negativity to you as "absolute rejection" why is it even a question for you?

[Nicholas]

This is something I am still refining myself and L/Lresearch offer a good benchmark of only giving advice or opinions when asked. I think silence is a wiser approach if the feedback is not feel nourishing.

Generally, I don't think deeper thinkers are much valued in the main. Even Sir Stephen Hawkins himself said "philosophy is dead". Yeah good one Steve, I see what you did there. Okay then, moving on I am   

I found this Ra quote helpful from 67.11

A portion, seemingly, of the Creator rejoices at your choice to question us regarding the evolution of spirit. A seemingly separate portion would wish for multitudinous answers to a great range of queries of a specific nature. Another seemingly separate group of your peoples would wish this correspondence through this instrument to cease, feeling it to be of a negative nature. Upon the many other planes of existence there are those whose every fiber rejoices at your service and those such as the entity of whom you have been speaking which wish only to terminate the life upon the third-density plane of this instrument. All are the Creator. There is one vast panoply of biases and distortions, colors and hues, in an unending pattern. In the case of those with whom you, as entities and as a group, are not in resonance, you wish them love, light, peace, joy, and bid them well. No more than this can you do for your portion of the Creator is as it is and your experience and offering of experience, to be valuable, needs be more and more a perfect representation of who you truly are

[Plenum]

I guess I am wondering if anyone else experiences this, and how you approach it? I'm starting to feel that maybe all I can do is send them love, instead of an actual response.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

I think it's a delicate matter to be of service.  Finding the right way to 'do that' is a subtle combination of many factors.  But your heart seems to be in  the right place  

[Turtle]

Not everyone is going to be relevant to your existence or your concepts of service.

[APeacefulWarrior]

That's the thing though. I am not trying to change them at all, as I feel that all paths are correct. If I am coming across as trying to actively change their minds, then that is a matter of perception.

Well, here's the thing: ALL communication is ultimately an attempt to change -even if only slightly- someone's mind. And, taking it a step further, I believe it's philosophically justified to say all communication must necessarily bring change. Even if it's only a very slight change. The act of seeing or hearing another's words creates an imprint of those words on the receiver's mind, and forces a reaction to them in one way or another.

This, as I see it, is a fundamentally unavoidable result of energetic interactions. A and B cannot come into contact in any way without both being changed by the experience. And the exact nature of that change can never be precisely predicted beforehand. Especially not in 3D incarnation.

Now, where this becomes an issue in terms of proselytization of any sort, is that if someone doesn't agree with or share your worldview, the mere act of reading your words and being "forced" to reject them is a negative act. And broadly speaking, the less their views have in common with yours, the more negative their reaction will likely be. (Since, in this case, opposites repel.)

Yet on the other hand, as Jade said, there's always the chance that someone will resonate strongly with your words as well.

It's really just going to be up to your own judgement and wisdom to decide when\if that tradeoff is worth making. Put bluntly, if you go around preaching, you are going to piss some people off. Is it worth doing so if it means helping a few people also 'see the light', so to speak, and open their eyes? You're the only one who can answer that.

But I don't think it's worthwhile getting too deep into the "free will" side of things. The only end game there is to attempt to cease all communications -as I've heard some Zen Masters do- but that's hardly practical in our day-to-day life. Otherwise, I advise simply seeking to understand this energetic interplay within communication and seek to utilize it wisely.

[hobbvin82]

Now, where this becomes an issue in terms of proselytization of any sort, is that if someone doesn't agree with or share your worldview, the mere act of reading your words and being "forced" to reject them is a negative act.  And broadly speaking, the less their views have in common with yours, the more negative their reaction will likely be.  (Since, in this case, opposites repel.)  

Yet on the other hand, as Jade said, there's always the chance that someone will resonate strongly with your words as well.  

It's really just going to be up to your own judgement and wisdom to decide when\if that tradeoff is worth making.  Put bluntly, if you go around preaching, you are going to piss some people off.  Is it worth doing so if it means helping a few people also 'see the light', so to speak, and open their eyes?  You're the only one who can answer that.

I see your point. I feel sharing light is worth possibly angering someone, because I know my heart was in the right place, and I was in no way judging them. However, I certainly don't like being preached at, so I can see why they would react in such a way. It's a double-edged sword. No matter what you have to say, someone is going to take offense to it.

I guess that is why Jesus spoke in parables to those that were not his immediate followers. He understood that they hadn't asked for the message he was here to give.

I think I'm going to take everyone's advice here, and only send them love via thought, because now that I think about it, I don't want to anger anyone, or try and make my view any more valid than theirs.

[hobbvin82]

I think it's a delicate matter to be of service.  Finding the right way to 'do that' is a subtle combination of many factors.  But your heart seems to be in  the right place  

I meditated on this, and came to the realization that I am perhaps trying to be of help in an area that needs no help. So, I'm going to stay my course, until my help is needed or warranted.

[hobbvin82]

Not everyone is going to be relevant to your existence or your concepts of service.

So true! I'm a people person, and one of my favorite things to do is watch people going about their lives. I see them as the same as I, but on parallel paths that may never cross.

[hobbvin82]

And look, I gave you terrible advice, but who knows, maybe someone else will get value from my words at some other point in the future, and hopefully I can learn from it. Onward with love!

I don't see any advice as terrible. It's simply a matter of perception. To be honest, I didn't immediately agree with everything you said, but I embrace, and value you for taking the time to share your thoughts.

I tend to be hyper-sensitive at times, and I am thinking that is just another one of my catalysts that I am here to work on.

[hobbvin82]

Regardless of what you think your intention is, replies on YouTube and Facebook are read by the masses. Typing a large bit of inspiration followed by "That is our way home" could be perceived by another self as your idea of a replacement for their established religious beliefs. Quite easily, I suspect.

I understand your query of "should I just not reply in the first place?" If commenting is what brings the Negativity to you as "absolute rejection" why is it even a question for you?

You make an extremely valid point here. I meditated on it, and came to a similar realization. As I mentioned in a response to another comment, I am probably trying to help where no help is warranted. I'm going to keep on keeping on, and when my help is needed, it will be requested.

[rva_jeremy]

So, it's not a matter of me not accepting them. The roles are switched, as they are trying to convince me that their view is accurate, and of the ramifications if I don't adhere to said view.

As long as you understand that there may be a lesson for you to pay attention to here, I think you're participating in useful work. Perhaps there is an exercise here in empathy and putting oneself in the others' shoes. Perhaps there is an exercise here in learning that ol' fourth density trick of loving the server while rejecting the service.

I can tell you pretty clearly and concisely the strategy I employ in situations like this: it would be to find the mystery in their (admittedly dogmatic) belief system and bond on that. The wonderful thing about mystery and infinity is that they expand to encompass everything the waking self is trained to filter out. Even in the most dogmatic of dogmatic religious paths, there are questions that defy a straightforward answer. As a very shallow example, one could ask "where is heaven?" or perhaps less shallowly to explore the dimensions of faith unbounded by the dogma.

This is largely an exercise in what has been called "imaginative labor", or the task of mentally becoming the other-self in order to love and accept that other-self more fully. It is indeed a most arduous and interesting "service" that you can perform, because those of Ra always mention how becoming transparent personalities allows love to flow through us, and that means finding creative ways to route around the porous but frustrating confines erected by theology and ideology. Practicing a totalizing acceptance here will show you many things about yourself you may not accept; it is fertile ground.

I think I will simply send them love without actively engaging.

Hey, you can't go wrong with this. But, then again, you can't really go wrong at all. I don't think you need a lot of guidance here except by reflecting on these matters and exploring your feelings and resistance to absolute acceptance, where useful information and feelings always abound.

[Stranger]

"I AM RALPH" posted a link to a Quo transcript of which this is a part, and I found it relevant as it concisely describes how Quo manages to navigate this particular issue:

We are those of Q’uo, and are aware of your query, my brother. We would thank you for your comments upon our attempts to serve the population of planet Earth. It is, of course, music to our ears to feel that love that you have for us and we thank you, my brother.

Yet it is also worthy to note in this regard that it does not eliminate our questions and concerns as to what that line is between witnessing to our own truth and being persuaders. For we would not be persuaders. We do not wish to pull or push people or do anything except offer hopefully helpful information. At the same time it is obvious from the nature of our information that we are biased towards the positive polarity and that we do rejoice when entities awaken.