Fucking karma, how does that work?

[Mahakali]

What is karma?

I get the idea that there are two different things that word refers to, the first being a collection of attached energy to the M/B/S complex that manifests into experience, and the second being a sort of punishment-and-reward system enforced by demiurgic entities.

[AnthroHeart]

Some karma you experience in the next life, but truthfully you don't even have to come back and can put your karma on hold.

[Minyatur]

Karma is your manifestation power.

[anagogy]

Karma is simply the see-saw act of momentum in consciousness (i.e. cause and effect). It is the natural tendency for consciousness/existence to seek balance. It is distortion seeking undistortion. From my perspective, it is neither punishment, nor reward.

Essentially, if experience resulted in an increase of distortion (with respect to awareness of unity) within your consciousness, then experience of a reciprocal or opposite nature would, by logical extension, unravel those accumulated distortions. It is the law of equivalent exchange. You see, unity is a bit like an enormous algebraic equation, and when you divide it by two (explore duality), whatever you do to one side has to be balanced on the other side of the equation. Experience is the dimension and domain of consciousness. If distortions or misalignment are wrought or forged via certain experiences in consciousness, then yet further still other experiences, of a reciprocal nature, will then realign that consciousness, or bring it back into balance with regard to intelligent infinity.

All distortions are on their way towards unraveling. Much like water seeking its level, all consciousness eventually returns to undistorted unity. It is like a melting ice cube in the ocean -- its time as a form is not eternal -- its going to melt back into the ocean at some point. Your return to the absolute is guaranteed and an inevitable outcome. Imbalance, by its very nature, naturally attracts or manifests those experiences from the cosmos that will balance it. Oftentimes people think that is "punishment" or "reward" based on the nature of those experiences. However, it is just consciousness naturally seeking its source or level.

What people interpret as their "spiritual lessons", and yet further romanticize as "their life purpose" is actually just the natural play out of this "karma". Those "spiritual lessons" are just those experiences that will undo a portion of the distorted perspective that a particular point of consciousness, at a particular threshold of illusion (like say, 3rd density for example) is currently entertaining as "their personal reality". It is as natural, and organic, of a process for that to occur as anything else in nature to do so.

So when you die, and cast off this mortal coil, the amount of this karma that you have "worked off" by properly absorbing the attracted catalyst/balancing experiences (which could be variably unpleasant or pleasant based on the nature of the particular distortions you are attempting to ameliorate) is then appraised and then future experiences, or "incarnations", are planned that will erase more of the accumulated distortions preventing your conscious identification with absolute and total infinite unity. If the catalyst was not properly absorbed, then another set of experiences, similar to the last life, will be manifested until the "lessons" are absorbed and that level of distortion is transcended. Welcome to the game of life.

[YinYang]

When Hindus and Buddhists use the word karma, the basic meaning of it is action, from the Sanskrit word kree - 'to do', and therefore there is some error in the common translation of karma as a law of 'cause and effect', or of cosmic retribution - "as a man sows, so also shall he reap" has a Western flavour, which is a little causal. The way the Buddha put it, was slightly different: "this arises, that becomes, because between this and that, there is a polar relationship". The full explanation of karma in Buddhist philosophy is called Pratītyasamutpāda, which means the inter-dependant origination of all the forms and phases of life, and there are 12 links in the chain of inter-dependant origination, constituting a circle, and the existence of the circle depends on the presence of every one of the links. From one point of view in Buddhism the chain of inter-dependant origination is looked upon as a chain, that's to say it's a form of bondage.

The constituents, as it were, of the vicious circle in which most people and beings are living, which they call Saṃsāra - the round of birth and death, the bhavacakra, the wheel of bhava, which is becoming, and so going round and round and round in the endless game of hide and seek, is from one point of view, bondage. Bondage to karma, and if you study the Bhagavad Gita, which is not a Buddhist book, but Hindu scripture, Krishna, the spokesman of the Gita, explains that the wise man is one who does what is called niṣkāmakarma, meaning passionless activity in the sense that he acts without seeking a result, without being motivated by the fruits of action, and therefore is not bound by his own action. You can be bound to Saṃsāra, the wheel of birth and death by iron chains or gold chains. In terms of popular Hinduism, if you do bad deeds in this life, you will get bad results next time. If you do good deeds in this life, you may be reborn as an angel or a monk in which you'll get a better chance of liberation, but still, so long as you're looking for results, be they good or evil, you are still bound.

Now the way in which one becomes free of karma, involves another Buddhist point of view, which is a different way of looking at the chain of inter-dependent origination. It's the way which the Japanese call Jijimuge, that is to say the mutual interpenetration of all things and events, so that you could say that actually in fact the at deepest level of reality, this entire cosmos is a completely harmonious and blissful manifestation of everything in a state of total enlightenment and mutual compassion, and therefore the task of the Buddhist or the Hindu discipline of meditation, the way of spiritual development, is to realise that, and therefore cease from the illusion that the universe is a fragmented process of conflict.

But first of all, karma is not to be understood in the Western sense of a law of cause and effect, or of a sort of retribution system, or a law. The word law is most unsuitable for concepts is Eastern Indian and Chinese philosophy. The word dharma, sometimes meaning the Buddhist doctrine or a certain way of life, never means law, although it's often translated that way. You don't get the idea of law until you move to a culture where order is based on the idea of obedience. In the West the origins of law spring from where? The laws of the Medes and Persians, the laws of Hammurabi, the laws of Moses, and later Roman law.

[Minyatur]

If you have a paradoxal understanding of yourself and your reality, then this will manifest into your reality. If you are in a state of disharmony with yourself (extends to others), then this will manifest in your reality.
You are one with your reality. It is never something separate from you, always in perfect unity with yourself.


Example:
A person thinks the universe is constantly picking on them but have been repeating for over the last 10 years that they are trash, unworthy of anything good, that they deserve hell and rejection from others.

What actually manifests here if your own belief that your reality is in disharmony with yourself and that you are in disharmony with yourself. In truth, it is so perfectly in harmony with yourself it answers perfectly the desired reality you entertain in your mind.
If you had a really great overview of the totality of yourself, you would see how every aspect of your reality derives from a path of thought that manifested every iota of light within your reality. You would see you are truly the Creator.

[AnthroHeart]

Karma is simply the see-saw act of momentum in consciousness (i.e. cause and effect). It is the natural tendency for consciousness/existence to seek balance. It is distortion seeking undistortion. From my perspective, it is neither punishment, nor reward.

Essentially, if experience resulted in an increase of distortion (with respect to awareness of unity) within your consciousness, then experience of a reciprocal or opposite nature would, by logical extension, unravel those accumulated distortions. It is the law of equivalent exchange. You see, unity is a bit like an enormous algebraic equation, and when you divide it by two (explore duality), whatever you do to one side has to be balanced on the other side of the equation. Experience is the dimension and domain of consciousness. If distortions or misalignment are wrought or forged via certain experiences in consciousness, then yet further still other experiences, of a reciprocal nature, will then realign that consciousness, or bring it back into balance with regard to intelligent infinity.

All distortions are on their way towards unraveling. Much like water seeking its level, all consciousness eventually returns to undistorted unity. It is like a melting ice cube in the ocean -- its time as a form is not eternal -- its going to melt back into the ocean at some point. Your return to the absolute is guaranteed and an inevitable outcome. Imbalance, by its very nature, naturally attracts or manifests those experiences from the cosmos that will balance it. Oftentimes people think that is "punishment" or "reward" based on the nature of those experiences. However, it is just consciousness naturally seeking its source or level.

What people interpret as their "spiritual lessons", and yet further romanticize as "their life purpose" is actually just the natural play out of this "karma". Those "spiritual lessons" are just those experiences that will undo a portion of the distorted perspective that a particular point of consciousness, at a particular threshold of illusion (like say, 3rd density for example) is currently entertaining as "their personal reality". It is as natural, and organic, of a process for that to occur as anything else in nature to do so.

So when you die, and cast off this mortal coil, the amount of this karma that you have "worked off" by properly absorbing the attracted catalyst/balancing experiences (which could be variably unpleasant or pleasant based on the nature of the particular distortions you are attempting to ameliorate) is then appraised and then future experiences, or "incarnations", are planned that will erase more of the accumulated distortions preventing your conscious identification with absolute and total infinite unity. If the catalyst was not properly absorbed, then another set of experiences, similar to the last life, will be manifested until the "lessons" are absorbed and that level of distortion is transcended. Welcome to the game of life.

So how do we live a life where we don't have to reincarnate here again?

[Aion]

There are a few traditional views of karma, which is more where the idea has come from. YinYang touched on most, I will just add my bits.

The first is an accumulation of deeds which is only relevant at the end of your life and is that measure which is factored in to the needs of your next experiences and is more related to wisdom than anything else. This is the classic traditional view in some Hinduism and Buddhism.

The second is what Buddhists call Karma Niyama which is what most people consider when they think of Karma and that is the action and response nature of events and choices. This idea reflects the concept of interplay with reality and that choices will have natural consequences. This is still different from the Western dualized view of good and evil which isn't really in the traditions. It has been conflated in the West with 'Sin' and this is not at all how I understand it is viewed traditionally.

However, being aware of this might aid to lift some of the weight of the New Age concepts of 'payment for your actions', which I think is silly, but if you really believe that reality might just shape the way you expect it to.

I might add that Dzogchen is the Tibetan Buddhist concept of the 'Great Perfection', that level of total harmony and unity.

[GentleWanderer]

______

[kycahi]

So how do we live a life where we don't have to reincarnate here again?

IMO when you can serve no further purpose to yourself, i.e. you made The Choice and you accumulated enough positive/negative credit in this and other space/time existences, then you will feel no further desire to do another 3D one.

Years ago I got hooked on the Harry Potter books and read them over and over (with breaks in between), until I just got that they have no additional surprise in the re-reading. I think choosing to go back for another 3D space/time life runs out of gas when it would not gain any additional value to you.

While we are in the middle of living one of these lives, we don't always know what's best in this regard and might grow despondent in the "misery." Meditation can help a whole lot to get you out of that state.

[Parsons]

I agree with like... 75% of what anagogy has to say about the matter... Perhaps more. At least I would like to put a finer point on a few things / word it in my own way:

I definitely can't stress enough that karma has nothing to do with punishment.

How it accrues - I see it as a sort of electrical charge that is built up as a result of a certain type of thought (anger, vengeance, hate, lack-of-forgiveness, negative judgement, etc). This can be caused by actions or words in a two-way interaction, and in some instances, someone hating someone with celebrity status (or social media, etc etc) in an almost completely one way interaction (they have never met the person physically or over some electronic medium). The catalyst involved isn't important; it's the fact that one or more parties blames the other party / does not accept / does not forgive for what they did or said. That is the key to the accrual of karma.

How it plays out (in this lifetime or the next) - Here is where I want to put a finer point on what anagogy said. The catalyst which is a "karmic" result is not always and certainly not by default the same action or even opposite action that causes the karma. For a super simplistic example, if you kill someone in one life, you won't necessarily experience being killed by that person in the next life. You also may not experience saving the person's life to try to resolve the accrued karma. In some cases, you really do experience something like that, and that's where I think the notion comes from that they are being 'punished' (ie, the victim kills the murderer from the previous life). But I think how it plays out is much more subtle / complicated and often piecemeal. In example, the karmic action of killing someone is the mountain of karma created that is slowly smoothed over stone by stone in several subsequent lifetimes (Ra said a bit more eloquently "acceptance smoothes part of the many distortions that the faculty you call judgment engenders", although they weren't explicitly referring to karma in the context of that quote [Ra 5.2]).

How it is resolved / neutralized - Of course, Ra explicitly told us that "forgiveness stops the wheel of karma". If you understand that forgiveness completely neutralizes the karmic 'electrical charge', you know how to neutralize karma and that you don't have to worry about it. To extend my previous example: the victim that was killed by the murderer in one life has the opportunity via catalyst to kill their murderer in the next life, chooses not to, and feels an inexplicable feeling of forgiveness / wellbeing towards the other person. That catalyst would never have been been necessary / occurred if both parties forgave themselves and each other of any perceived wrong-doing. Manually doing something or saying something to try to make up for the karma is totally unnecessary. The catalyst will automatically become available to try to reduce the karmic electrical charge to nothing.

Forgiving yourself and / or the other person is all you have to do to neutralize the karma on your side. However, keep in mind that you neutralizing the karma for the other party is impossible if they are in fact offended / hold a grudge. All you can do is consciously present catalyst to the other person in hopes of gaining their forgiveness if they hold a grudge against you OR if you hold a grudge against yourself. You can't force them to use the catalyst to forgive you; so why worry about it? You will work it out later in life, the next life, or some other level. If they don't forgive you, you can still meet them half-way and forgive yourself.

PS - I understand that past lives / future lives are simultaneous; I am only using those terms for the sake of convenient phrasing. I am not saying that forgiving yourself for a 'negative' action is carte blanche to f*** over other people. Knowing the resolution of karma doesn't necessarily make it easier to forgive yourself or the other person when in the heat of intense catalyst; but this statement also isn't an excuse.

[Mahakali]

I'm not a huge fan of forgiveness. The more I hate someone, the more I hurt them. Maybe that's somewhat negative. But as long as I can think and feel hatred, I attach them to my pain. And as long as I have my pain, I will think and feel hatred.

I think that, if I really, really want to, I could hurt them with just my mind. The amount of pain and anguish inside of me isn't something that most people following the negative path would understand or be able to notice at first glance. There's more than enough to share with people who want to be mean to me. They'll regret it, if I want them to.

That said, I'd probably rather move on... but it's hard... I really just want my mind, body, and soul to be fixed... attuned to the proper vibrations that could make me happier... but I'm not sure exactly how to go about it.

[Glow]

I'm not a huge fan of forgiveness. The more I hate someone, the more I hurt them. Maybe that's somewhat negative. But as long as I can think and feel hatred, I attach them to my pain. And as long as I have my pain, I will think and feel hatred.

I think that, if I really, really want to, I could hurt them with just my mind. The amount of pain and anguish inside of me isn't something that most people following the negative path would understand or be able to notice at first glance. There's more than enough to share with people who want to be mean to me. They'll regret it, if I want them to.

That said, I'd probably rather move on... but it's hard... I really just want my mind, body, and soul to be fixed... attuned to the proper vibrations that could make me happier... but I'm not sure exactly how to go about it.

I love your honesty. I'm sorry you carry all that with you. Maybe just start with one person to forgive?
Yourself, anyone really, forgiveness really benefits you more than them. Carrying all those wounds is a big job. Put one or two down you might find your mind/body/soul does feel better.

We are near polar opposites I forgive maybe to easily, I see the reason for people's carelessness/meanness even if they don't. It doesn't make it good behaviour but I cannot hold it against them because I understand to some degree everyone's struggle. On the plus side I don't have wounds to carry except from loss, on the down side if I'd made people be aware of their "meanness" or inconsiderate behaviour maybe I would have been a better mirror for them.

Either way thank you for sharing your perspective.

[Glow]

different karma

I was thinking this weekend any attachment is karma so even LOVE in some forms aimed at a specific being or beings could be considered karma.

I think actually why I keep coming back. I got to attached to one being (past life visions of repeated early loss/death) and need to release the attachment completely so I have no reason to return. They are just another facet of myself so really there is nothing to miss or come back for. Nothing lost.

[Aion]

I'm not a huge fan of forgiveness. The more I hate someone, the more I hurt them. Maybe that's somewhat negative. But as long as I can think and feel hatred, I attach them to my pain. And as long as I have my pain, I will think and feel hatred.

I think that, if I really, really want to, I could hurt them with just my mind. The amount of pain and anguish inside of me isn't something that most people following the negative path would understand or be able to notice at first glance. There's more than enough to share with people who want to be mean to me. They'll regret it, if I want them to.

That said, I'd probably rather move on... but it's hard... I really just want my mind, body, and soul to be fixed... attuned to the proper vibrations that could make me happier... but I'm not sure exactly how to go about it.

Blow that up to the biggest proportion you can, let your anger and pain manifest as whatever mental images, to whatever extreme. I can tell you I've wiped out all of existence a few times in my mind, I've also tortured endlessly. I've washed the planet in my pain many times.

Still don't feel any better about it. It still hurts just as much and no amount of vengeance will ease that which I cling to willingly.

[Minyatur]

I'm not a huge fan of forgiveness. The more I hate someone, the more I hurt them. Maybe that's somewhat negative. But as long as I can think and feel hatred, I attach them to my pain. And as long as I have my pain, I will think and feel hatred.

I think that, if I really, really want to, I could hurt them with just my mind. The amount of pain and anguish inside of me isn't something that most people following the negative path would understand or be able to notice at first glance. There's more than enough to share with people who want to be mean to me. They'll regret it, if I want them to.

That said, I'd probably rather move on... but it's hard... I really just want my mind, body, and soul to be fixed... attuned to the proper vibrations that could make me happier... but I'm not sure exactly how to go about it.

I think you gotta crystalize always making the choice of what's better and to move toward healing. It's hard, a lengthy process in which we test ourselves about what we truly want, because the Universe truly never is your enemy, it shapes your destiny based on your choices and desires. But there is light at the end of the road and at some point you gotta stop denying yourself the right to go toward the light. The light is freeing and it's there you'll find to truly be well.

If you take a look at my signature, it's not your duty to forgive but instead your fate and what you can always only gravitate toward. How you are currently is truly infinitely beautiful and infinitely worth seeking to understand, you were twisted by love and will heal through love.

Non-forgiveness is a weight that can't be forever entertained.

[Mahakali]

But what if I don't cling to unforgiveness in order to ease the pain, but rather, cling to the pain in order to increase the desire for evolution and create the potential for polarization? Black alchemy.

I'm in a weird space where pain no longer affects me, and pleasure does not exist. The way my mind's control structures work are probably very far away from the average individual.

I'm just not where I want to be right now, that's all. but maybe there aren't a whole lot of useful maps of the places I'm trying to go.

[Jade]

I think the problem is, Maha, that if you want information on black alchemy, you won't find much of it here. All you will find is the distorted perceptions of the white magician or the neutral. If you really desire to polarize along the left hand path, I am not judging you, I am just encouraging you to find sources that are more experienced with what you are desiring. I doubt there are a lot of useful maps, because from what I know of the left hand path, it is full of secrecy and misleadings. I guess the benefit to us here is that we at least are trying our best to be as honest and truthful as possible. But, before you can move forward, you have to decide which picnic you prefer.

If you decide you prefer our picnic, I'd recommend reaching out to Reaper as someone who has transitioned back and forth. If you are looking to transmute pain into more pain, I don't think there are many people here who currently have that same desire.

[Ashim]

That said, I'd probably rather move on... but it's hard... I really just want my mind, body, and soul to be fixed... attuned to the proper vibrations that could make me happier... but I'm not sure exactly how to go about it.

That's ok, you are, like me, just a few sandwiches short of a picnic.
Try being nice to others without expectation of gratitude. Go ahead and give something to someone in need without desire for compensation.
I'm sure it will do your soul good and that you will have a good time.
Give it a try, why not?

[Minyatur]

That's ok, you are, like me, just a few sandwiches short of a picnic.
Try being nice to others without expectation of gratitude. Go ahead and give something to someone in need without desire for compensation.
I'm sure it will do your soul good and that you will have a good time.
Give it a try, why not?

I do resonate with this. I'd add that personally I don't like much how grattitude makes me feel and seek no such thing directed toward myself. I much rather help someone from the shadows.

It is a step of healing though, the more balanced state would radiate it's beingness, although still not requiring grattitude back. Slowly, we all align with that, taking steps toward it and away from it in our dance of love.

[Mahakali]

I think the problem is, Maha, that if you want information on black alchemy, you won't find much of it here. All you will find is the distorted perceptions of the white magician or the neutral. If you really desire to polarize along the left hand path, I am not judging you, I am just encouraging you to find sources that are more experienced with what you are desiring. I doubt there are a lot of useful maps, because from what I know of the left hand path, it is full of secrecy and misleadings. I guess the benefit to us here is that we at least are trying our best to be as honest and truthful as possible. But, before you can move forward, you have to decide which picnic you prefer.

If you decide you prefer our picnic, I'd recommend reaching out to Reaper as someone who has transitioned back and forth. If you are looking to transmute pain into more pain, I don't think there are many people here who currently have that same desire.

Yes, and you bring up my whole point of seeking information from white light circles.

"Pain into pain" is not exactly the point, but.

90% of useful spiritual information can be found in positive sources. There are few useful maps of that other 10%, because, I think, once you get to that point, you're generating your own ideas and making your own music.

The kind of black alchemy I'm referring to is not what most black ma2gicians are into, and not exactly what Ra was referring to in that book, but.

wiches short of a picnic.
Try being nice to others without expectation of gratitude. Go ahead and give something to someone in need without desire for compensation.
I'm sure it will do your soul good and that you will have a good time.
Give it a try, why not?

I do, of course. If I have something and another person has nothing, I offer to help them. but I don't have to set out with the intention of helping others, it just happens, because I happen to enjoy making other people happy, sometimes.

I'm not a slave, period. I refuse. Anyone trying to make me one will be sorely disappointed.

I still like helping people, sure.

[Nicholas]

What is karma?

I think the principle came into effect around the same time as the veil did.

I'm not a huge fan of forgiveness.

Not many are, Mahakali, as it seems too abrasive to one's own pride. 

That said, I'd probably rather move on... but it's hard...

Just admit it, your a bonafide, if somewhat confused pozzie