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    Bring4th Bring4th Studies Strictly Law of One Material An analysis of the STS mindset and path

    Thread: An analysis of the STS mindset and path


    Ray711 (Offline)

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    #1
    06-21-2019, 04:39 PM
    This was touched upon in a separate thread, but I felt the topic was important enough to deserve its own thread, as it revolves heavily around key concepts of The Law of One, and indeed, of all Creation.

    Some of the ideas here presented are influenced by what Jordan Peterson labels "psychology of evil", his views on the subject, as well as some personal experiences and observations of mine.

    I would like to state that a trigger warning might be in order. The subject matter here covered will be dark in nature, and touch upon the possible mentality behind the perpetrators of crimes such as rape, mass shootings, and so on. If you have been the victim of any such crimes and have any unresolved trauma regarding the experience, this thread might be uncomfortable. However, here I am reminded of one statement by Jordan Peterson about PTSD being caused in great part by having confronted extreme "evil", without currently having a framework that helps explain the mentality behind such actions. If you've suffered through any such things and you decide to read on, perhaps some of the ideas here presented will help you in your healing.

    As students of The Law of One, all of us have read the Confederation's thoughts on the importance of having compassion and love even for the perpetrators of great evil, in part due to the notion that each and every single one of us has the same potential for evil: what has often been referred to as the shadow. It is my intent with this thread to share ideas and shed whatever light we can upon this subject in order to help us find further ways of feeling love and compassion for these individuals, our shadow, and thus, for our Infinite Creator.

    The framework that I'm going to work under is that we're all beings of love. Love is our essence and our north star. Love gives meaning to our lives, and we can't help but seek love. We incarnated to learn the lessons of love, as we know. And we incarnated in an illusion so thick that we would completely forget that love is our essence; an illusion where tragedy is an inseparable and unavoidable component, deliberately built-in and designed for the purpose of testing how far our belief and commitment to love can go, as Ra implied in their famous and inspiring poker analogy.

    So, what happens when tragedy strikes and an entity starts believing that love is unattainable, or that the illusion is actually love itself? To what lenghts can an entity be twisted when it internalizes such beliefs? One thing is for certain: If love from others is seen as futile, another option must be embraced. One would logically have to stop seeking love, and start seeking other things. In my estimation, there's a single thought that starts the whole train of action: "This thing that is being done to me is unacceptable". What is perceived as unacceptable must be controlled. Thus, the pathway of power, control, retribution and aggrandizement of the ego at the expense of other-selves, begins.  

    We've come to know this as the Service to Self path. Although described as completely valid a pathway of ascension ("The Law of One blinks neither at the light or the darkness"), it neither will get an entity all the way back to the Creator, nor will one find as much truth through that path. "The path of that which is not", we've read. It's a path so dependent on illusion, that it didn't exist at all when there was no veil.

    Ra referred to the STS kind of sexual arousal as "virtually unquenchable". I believe this applies to all forms of power-seeking for the STS entity, and no wonder: There is always someone more to surpass in the hierarchy; someone else to enslave; some new territory to have dominion over. The desire for power and control will never find true satisfaction (especially in an Infinite Creation!). Thus, although described still as a path of love (love exclusively of the self), STS neither begins in love nor it fulfills the immutable yearning of the soul for a more inclusive and expansive kind of love. It's a substitute. It begins being a substitute in 3rd density when the first steps towards negative polarization are taken, and it continues being so throughout the higher densities, until the impossibility of continuing through that path is realized in mid-6th density. Q'uo said, I believe (I may be paraphrasing) that there's a kind of sweet innocence to the STS entity that switches polarity at that point and starts discovering the pleasures of true connectedness, Oneness and unconditional love.

    All of this cements very solidly, in my opinion, the notion that there's something lacking for the soul about the STS path. The soul is being denied something; something that it still yearns for, even if subconsciously.

    Let's take the example of the rapist. It seems difficult to believe that any entity would prefer forcing themselves on someone and gaining whatever pleasure they might derive from dominating someone, over making love with a person who they genuinely love, and who loves them back. The rapist becomes so only after internalizing, first, the idea that they will not be loved, and second, that this state of affairs is unacceptable. The desire to rape is embraced, again, as a substitute, not as a true preference.

    There are the mass shooters. That they were isolated from their peers and suffered from painfully low self-esteem is well known. The Choice is presented to them. In their perception that they have been rejected*, and in their unwillingness to accept and find the love in the situation, thus refusing the STO path, they move towards the only thing that is acceptable to them: Power over others; as Ra said, "the putting to death being the ultimate power over others".

    *relevant: there are studies that say that rejection literally activates our pain circuitry.

    I think it's extremely important to point out the intense pain these people are under, and here I say again, that although STS is called the path of love of the self, it most certainly does not begin in love. I believe it was in the manifesto of one of the Columbine shooters where it was said how much they hated everybody, but with a caveat: they admitted to hating most of all those individuals who reminded them of their own selves. These people are not in love with themselves. Whatever clumsy attempts they may have made at finding love before, they ended with the belief that even if love does exist, they themselves are unlovable. Elliot Rodger is someone who repeatedly talked about wishing for nothing more than finding the love of a woman, in the videos that he made before his shootings. He would talk about looking back at his childhood, yearning for the simplicity, innocence and naivete of that period. After internalizing the notions that women had rejected him and that they were the enemy, he would talk at length from that hatred and resentment that kept festering and festering. He would speak words that would rob women of all humanity, hating men who had found love, too, because they were living symbols of the failure that he perceived himself to be. "I will be the alpha male", I believe were some of his words towards the end. Again, STS is shown as the alternative, the substitute; not the actual preference.

    A hatred for life itself seems very common under these situations. As Jordan Peterson points out, the fact that most of these people end up killing their own selves is meant in part as a statement. It's a desire to show to the world that life, existence itself, is worthless. What better way of driving that point home could there be than the taking of one's own life?

    Obviously, due to this, the mass shooters walk into the STS path only so far. We can only guess whether they enjoyed the feelings of power and domination that they were seeking in their crimes, and to what extent. For the STS entity that has a longer incarnation, the process continues. As they begin to experiment with the feelings of power and domination, the pain and feelings of self-worthlessness that drove them towards a substitute for love probably subside. I would imagine that they start feeling re-invigorated, their self-esteem being progressively restored, until a new realization becomes self-evident in their minds: power, control and domination is what life is about. The entity declares that that's what he or she will live for. Thus, a newfound love is discovered. The love of the illusory self.

    There's a popular belief that true STS entities operate only from positions of extremely high power and status. This is not so, as stated here by Q'uo:

    Quote:R: In looking at the nature of negative polarity and karma, there is the assumption that when one polarizes in the negative sense, for example, as a slave master, then the karma would draw to him the opposite experience of being the slave. When you are in the position of one who suffers and is on the receiving end, will you still polarize in a negative way?” Could you comment on this question?

    We are those of Q’uo, and are aware of your query, my brother. It is entirely possible and quite probable that an entity, as you say, on the receiving end of power; that is, being powerless, can polarize very greatly towards the negative.

    If you think about the nature of the negative polarity, the negative polarity has to do with seeing all others as objects to be used and to feeling of oneself that one is the king of creation. When such an entity, with this basic turn of mind, is in a position of powerlessness, he is free to spend the entire incarnation honing the edge of his rage. He can use every slight, every insult, in order to make himself more finely sharp as an axe-blade in his distain and distaste for all but himself.

    And talking of negative polarity metaphysically speaking, you are not looking so much at the outer estate as you are looking at the possibilities of employing the path-that-is-not. Employing the path-that-is-not means denying that you and the other are one. Whether a negatively polarized entity is on top or on the bottom in terms of the estate he enjoys in society, he is equally capable of honing the edge of his anger and his separation from all others.

    The topic of determinism, how much free will we really have, and whether some entities are more prone to others than walking the STS path is interesting. These are some relevant extracts:

    Quote:19.17. Questioner: Can you tell me what bias creates their momentum toward the chosen path of service to self?

    Ra: I am Ra. We can speak only in metaphor. Some love the light. Some love the darkness. It is a matter of the unique and infinitely various Creator choosing and playing among its experiences as a child upon a picnic. Some enjoy the picnic and find the sun beautiful, the food delicious, the games refreshing, and glow with the joy of creation. Some find the night delicious, their picnic being pain, difficulty, sufferings of others, and the examination of the perversities of nature. These enjoy a different picnic.

    All these experiences are available. It is free will of each entity which chooses the form of play, the form of pleasure.

    Q'uo, from the following session:

    https://llresearch.org/transcripts/issue...0_0513.pdf

    Quote:And so it created its children, children of love and free will, one unit of absolute love that can never change and will never be unique, and [an] absolutely equal portion of infinitely various free will. That is your nature. Your uniqueness lies not in that you are children of love, but in that no two unions of love and free will are the same.
    (...)
    that you bond your free will in a general way, either to learning and expressing love by loving all that there is, yourself, love itself and all children of love, or choosing to deny that any but you is unique, that you are the center of the universe, that you are to be loved.
    (...)
    This is seen by those who are neutral or working positively, as negative, because the negative entity will of course arrange, control and create its universe [in the way] which is most comfortable and advantageous to it. It does, however, have its own logic, and should never be treated with disrespect, but with the understanding that there are those whose uniqueness creates for them a free will which seems to be more paramount than the love that binds one to another. There is no less worship, there is no less sanctity in the negative than in the positive. It is simply a different distortion of the one love.

    What I get from this is that there's some inherent bias in each entity, but free will having the potential to overcome said bias (which is to say, itself??) and being capable of making The Choice one way or the other.

    Another point of interest is that STS depends upon the lie of fear. Fear is a lie in that there's no reason to be afraid of anything, from a higher perspective, given that we're eternal, immortal, and unconditionally loved. The first steps towards STS are usually walked because of one kind of fear or another (fear of being unlovable; fear that if life is not controlled, tragedy will surely strike; etc). We've all heard of how 4th and 5th density negative entities resort to instilling fear on 3rd density entities. Fear is how they get recruits for their empire.

    Another point is the seeming masculinity of the STS path, applied in its most extreme and dark form. This begs the question, what is the role of the female in the STS path? Why would a soul ever incarnate whether in higher negative densities or as an aspiring STS harvestable 3rd density entity, as a female? For this, these quotes seem relevant:

    Quote:one entity experiencing the pleasure of humiliation and slavery or bondage, the other experiencing the pleasure of mastery and control over another entity. In this way a sexual energy transfer of a negative polarity is experienced.

    Quote:The negative path posits slavery of the less powerful as a means of learning the desire to serve the self to the extent that the will is brought to bear. It is in this way that polarity is increased in the negative sense. Thus fourth-density entities are willing slaves of such a fifth-density entity, there being no doubt whatsoever of the relative power of each.

    Given that being a willing slave increases one's negative polarity, it would seem to me that STS females would reward and willingly submit only to the most powerful males they could gain access to, thus instilling into others the idea that they are only as worth as they are powerful and strong. I believe a perfect 3rd density example of this can be found on the women who would send the serial killer Ted Bundy love letters while he was in prison. No doubt these women also came from situations of tragedy and lack of self-worth. In this sense, I believe these women wouldn't so much seek direct power over others, but instead indirectly seek power through submission to an STS man.
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      • Seeking One, EvolvingPhoenix, Patrick, loostudent
    unity100 (Offline)

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    #2
    06-21-2019, 06:13 PM
    You seem to be conflating negative polarity with unstable behaviors.

    Shooters etc can be easily classified as mentally unstable individuals. The act they commit and the feelings which compel them to do it are negative, that is evident. However the very act of committing those actions signify that the entity is not a sufficiently stable entity in either path:

    If he was a sufficiently developed 3d positive entity, he wouldnt commit it because he wouldnt want to hurt others.

    If he was a sufficiently developed 3d negative entity, he wouldnt commit it because he wouldnt want to jeopardize himself.

    .....

    Additionally you are rationalizing negative polarity way too much:

    Ra tells that some entities just enjoy darkness and suffering. Preferably not of themselves, as evident from Ra's picnic example.

    So a percentage of entities are just inclined to exploit others. There arent particular convictions behind it.

    Such lapses into negative behavior or mindsets, caused by disillusionment with entire society, belief that love is not possible etc are exceptions for positively inclined entities. They are not reasons to polarize negatively in a sustainable manner:

    There are various examples in the material which tell that for entities positively inclined deep down below, it is very inefficient, difficult and long to walk the negative polarity path. Like in positive entities who could be misplaced in negative environments example.

    So similarly for 3d entities negative behavior models, polarization cannot be sustainable unless the deep, spiritual bias provides for it.

    Quote:Given that being a willing slave increases one's negative polarity

    Thats also inaccurate because it totally misses the grand factor of density difference: 4d entity does not get enslaved to another 4d entity. It gets 'enslaved' to a 5d negative entity, because that entity is more powerful. There is little 'willingly' in it. The only willing part in that equation would be because the negative 4d entity thinks that there is benefit to it in the relationship - not unlike the 3d negatively inclined entities trying to call negative 4d extraterrestrial contact, and then even engaging in a battle of wills as described in the material.

    Similarly for 3d entities that are inclined negatively the situation is the same - negative entity is obsessed and concerned about its self. Therefore incarnating into dangerous or uncomfortable circumstances is a no no. It must incarnate into circumstances which will be comfortable, and offer it possibilities for power.
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      • Merrick, Infinite, kristina
    Ray711 (Offline)

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    #3
    06-22-2019, 04:06 AM (This post was last modified: 06-22-2019, 04:08 AM by Ray711.)
    (06-21-2019, 06:13 PM)unity100 Wrote: However the very act of committing those actions signify that the entity is not a sufficiently stable entity in either path

    Yes. It was my attempt to describe what I believe were the initial steps towards the STS path. It's very possible that those people hadn't quite reached STS harvestability yet, but the soul stream is most definitely heading in that direction.

    The notion that a sufficiently developed individual in either polarity would not engage in unbalanced actions (taking one's life being rather unbalanced, no matter the polarity) is not exactly true. The harsh catalyst of 3rd density can drive anyone to do a lot of unbalanced things. In the unfortunate event of Don Elkins' suicide we have an example of someone who was most definitely of very high STO polarity who saw suicide as the only way out.

    Quote:So a percentage of entities are just inclined to exploit others. There arent particular convictions behind it.

    This is something I really can't get behind. It sounds very highly deterministic. If this were true, there would be no need whatsoever for the density of The Choice. All souls would just jump straight into the 4rd density of their inherently preferred polarity. The idea also seems to ignore the central notion that we are all one. Each of us is every emotion, every thought, every polarity; we are infinity itself. Each and every single soul, no exception, is potentially capable of choosing any polarity. There are biases, as it's been stated, but free will can overcome biases. If we're to love the people that choose the STS polarity, stating that they are simply of a different inherent nature doesn't help. It's an idea that creates distance and separation, because it carries with it the unavoidable notion that an STO entity could never search within themselves and find the very aspects that would have made them choose the STS path.

    I can't stress enough the importance of the fact that before the veil the STS path didn't exist. Entities didn't have the desire for power and domination when the knowledge of Oneness and ever-present unconditional love wasn't veiled.


    Quote:There are various examples in the material which tell that for entities positively inclined deep down below, it is very inefficient, difficult and long to walk the negative polarity path. Like in positive entities who could be misplaced in negative environments example.

    The example given in the material was referring very specifically to Carla, whose soul stream has a trajectory of literal millions of years of learning the STO lessons. If you put a soul like that in a position where they are forced to learn the advanced lessons of early 6th density STS, they most definitely are going to have extreme difficulties. But, under the effects of the veil, any soul can potentially choose STS out of their own free will, as evidenced by the two wanderers who polarized negatively on Venus.


    Quote:negative entity is obsessed and concerned about its self. Therefore incarnating into dangerous or uncomfortable circumstances is a no no. It must incarnate into circumstances which will be comfortable, and offer it possibilities for power.

    This is only sometimes true. To cite Q'uo again:


    Quote:It is entirely possible and quite probable that an entity, as you say, on the receiving end of power; that is, being powerless, can polarize very greatly towards the negative.

    If you think about the nature of the negative polarity, the negative polarity has to do with seeing all others as objects to be used and to feeling of oneself that one is the king of creation. When such an entity, with this basic turn of mind, is in a position of powerlessness, he is free to spend the entire incarnation honing the edge of his rage. He can use every slight, every insult, in order to make himself more finely sharp as an axe-blade in his distain and distaste for all but himself.

    And talking of negative polarity metaphysically speaking, you are not looking so much at the outer estate as you are looking at the possibilities of employing the path-that-is-not. Employing the path-that-is-not means denying that you and the other are one. Whether a negatively polarized entity is on top or on the bottom in terms of the estate he enjoys in society, he is equally capable of honing the edge of his anger and his separation from all others.
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      • Seeking One, Glow, EvolvingPhoenix
    unity100 (Offline)

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    #4
    06-22-2019, 11:46 AM
    (06-22-2019, 04:06 AM)Ray711 Wrote:
    (06-21-2019, 06:13 PM)unity100 Wrote: However the very act of committing those actions signify that the entity is not a sufficiently stable entity in either path

    Yes. It was my attempt to describe what I believe were the initial steps towards the STS path. It's very possible that those people hadn't quite reached STS harvestability yet, but the soul stream is most definitely heading in that direction.

    Such mental instability hampers harvestability. Going around randomly killing people as a crazy person is not negative behavior. Its mental instability. Such an entity would have trouble understanding its environment and manifesting its real motives in reaction to its environment.

    Couldnt pass the steps of light test...

    Start of negative path is always ever-simple - the entity just makes consistent, small, selfish choices.

    Quote:The notion that a sufficiently developed individual in either polarity would not engage in unbalanced actions (taking one's life being rather unbalanced, no matter the polarity) is not exactly true.

    That is fundamentally true, and a fundamental necessity. Its not only a necessity for randomly oriented 3d entities or 3d environment - an appropriate level of mental stability is fundamental for every single density.

    Killing people is not necessarily unbalanced act - if the entity is doing it with an objective, be it positive or negative, fully aware of the results of the action, that is not an unbalanced act.

    However a positive entity killing others randomly with no concern for those people, or a negative entity randomly killing people with no concern for what happens to self and with no benefit to self from those killings, would not be polarized acts.

    Quote:The harsh catalyst of 3rd density can drive anyone to do a lot of unbalanced things. In the unfortunate event of Don Elkins' suicide we have an example of someone who was most definitely of very high STO polarity who saw suicide as the only way out.

    Police report itself noted that Don was not control of his actions. Hence it cannot be considered a suicide in which Don killed himself, leave aside somebody else - but potentially a murder, in which his body faculties were manipulated to kill him.

    Even if we flat out ignore the complicated components of the event and say Don killed himself, then the end result would still be that Don did not harm anybody else. That is a proper choice for a sufficiently positively polarized entity.

    Quote:This is something I really can't get behind. It sounds very highly deterministic. If this were true, there would be no need whatsoever for the density of The Choice.

    As uncomfortable as it sounds, the choice which density of choice provides is allowing the negatively inclined entities to manifest their choices and path, by protecting them from the greater positive racial mind.

    Veil weakens the connection in between conscious and subconscious, which also weakens the connection in between the mind of the negative entity and the racial subconscious, which allows the entity to not get affected by the deep racial mind feeding back the effects of its negative actions on others.

    Before the veil and 3d density of choice, all societies were positive. After, negative societies became possible...

    Quote:The idea also seems to ignore the central notion that we are all one. Each of us is every emotion, every thought, every polarity; we are infinity itself. Each and every single soul, no exception, is potentially capable of choosing any polarity. There are biases, as it's been stated, but free will can overcome biases.

    "Free will can overcome biases" -> that sentence doesnt even make sense. How will choosing something that the entity is not spiritually inclined for, will overcome the bias...

    If one takes your sentence as 'through determination spiritual bias can be overridden', yes, its possible. But as the material explains, it causes a looong difficult road back home.

    Quote:If we're to love the people that choose the STS polarity, stating that they are simply of a different inherent nature doesn't help.

    It not only does help, but it also explains it actually - for:

    Quote:It's an idea that creates distance and separation

    ...that is exactly what will happen.

    The positive must live in positive environments and follow a positive path, and the negative must do the opposite on their part.

    You cannot unite these two polarities until mid 6d, where polarities just unite because the negative entities realize that negative polarity is not sustainable and is contradictory.

    Quote:because it carries with it the unavoidable notion that an STO entity could never search within themselves and find the very aspects that would have made them choose the STS path.

    They could search for them, and they would stay on their negative path and do their negative acts...

    ........

    To be honest, as far as i understand, you seem to be practically denying the nature of polarity and polarization of entities and arguing that through sheer power of 'choice', the negative entities can 'just' choose to search their souls, 'understand' what is making them negative, and choose differently.

    And in that, you seem to think that negative polarization mainly stems from entities just thinking they are unloved, they are alone and other depressive sentiments. And you seem to think that therefore, if those 'negative' entities 'search their souls' and understand that these sentiments make them act 'negative', and realize that these sentiments are unfounded, they will just decide to 'override' their 'negative bias' and follow a positive path.

    Thats not correct.

    Those sentiments are not negatively polarized sentiments. They are called 'negative' sentiments in modern English discourse. They dont have anything to do with negative polarization. Negative polarizing sentiments include:

    Feeling of superiority, greed, lies, manipulative tendencies, constant anger, hatred, elitism...

    Those are examples of negative polarized emotions and sentiments.

    Quote:
    Quote:There are various examples in the material which tell that for entities positively inclined deep down below, it is very inefficient, difficult and long to walk the negative polarity path. Like in positive entities who could be misplaced in negative environments example.

    The example given in the material was referring very specifically to Carla, whose soul stream has a trajectory of literal millions of years of learning the STO lessons. If you put a soul like that in a position where they are forced to learn the advanced lessons of early 6th density STS, they most definitely are going to have extreme difficulties. But, under the effects of the veil, any soul can potentially choose STS out of their own free will, as evidenced by the two wanderers who polarized negatively on Venus.

    You are making exception. It doesnt work like that.

    First, it was not told that Carla could be put in a negative 6d environment. It was told that she could be put in a negative time/space, wherever and whichever density that may be. It may have been 4d negative or 5d negative, we dont know.

    Second, this was not only explained for Carla, but as a general example for entities placed in environments not compatible with their spiritual biases. It was valid for everyone.

    Third, there are other examples of such situations, like the 5d wanderers which lost massive polarity due to their negative acts in Ra's 3d experience, and had to repeat 4d, and actually as a part of Ra's 4d experience to boot.

    Those entities had amassed negative polarity enough to be harvested from Ra's experience as negative. But apparently, the incompatibility with their spiritual bias was so great that they have chosen to go back and repeat 4d positive lessons.

    Beyond that, there are other quotes which talk about the inefficiency of walking a non-compatible spiritual path in the material.

    Quote:
    Quote:negative entity is obsessed and concerned about its self. Therefore incarnating into dangerous or uncomfortable circumstances is a no no. It must incarnate into circumstances which will be comfortable, and offer it possibilities for power.

    This is only sometimes true. To cite Q'uo again:

    Aside from the fact that Quo is yet young, and they would easily err in various delicate concepts:

    The negative entity would put itself into positions of difficulty only if it will provide it immediate benefits, or negative polarization which it could use to gain power.

    Like Genghis Khan's early life in which he was captured by his tribe's enemies and suffered, and then used these sentiments to take vengeance on that other tribe and subdue them, the negative entity always must find the circumstances for its benefit.

    Just like how Genghis did not choose a life in which he would suffer lifelong as a repressed slave, similarly negative entity must choose such difficult circumstances only if it provides immediate benefit and opportunity to them.

    Discussing this is a bit pointless since it is explicitly stated in the material that negative or non positive entities prefer comfortable circumstances.

    It must be noted that entities of certain positive polarization interpret things positively.

    Like how Carla used to interpret negative polarity as a polarity 'wanting to protect', or how Don thought they could 'do some service' to their negative 5d visitor which sought to kill them, until Ra bluntly told them there was nothing which could do to service that entity aside from choosing to die, Quo, like other positive entities interprets things positively.

    A similar approach seems to be in your perceptive:

    You seem to think that negative entities polarize negatively because of some 'mistaken perceptions' they have about being unloved or separate or other 'negative sentiments', and 'if they can discover' that these 'worries' are untrue, they could 'override' their negative spiritual bias through willpower.

    This is basically ignoring the existence of negative polarity. Its not acceptance at all.

    Its a positive polarized perspective, that lacks various understanding of the fundamentals of existence. Exactly like the negative entities which think that positive entities mistakenly choose to be positive only because they do not understand that they are making stupid choices.
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      • kristina
    Ray711 (Offline)

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    #5
    06-22-2019, 05:07 PM
    I don't think it helps to label such actions as mental instability, as if that by itself is sufficient an explanation. Some psychologists hold the idea that literally every action, thought and emotion has a very good reason for existing, and it covers one need or another in a person (whether that is the best way to go about covering such need is a different story). In the case of mass shooters, the objective is very clear. They want to restore the self-esteem that they lost, and they see killing as something that will balance things for them. They want to control a situation that they perceive as unacceptable (their perceived position of inferiority) by killing those they perceive as responsible. They want to send a statement of their hatred for every other human being, and for God/Creation/existence itself, even. Furthermore, the mentality of such people is such that they consider any damage done upon them as a crime of the highest order. Although of extremely low self-esteem, they paradoxically have an over-inflated ego. Minus the low self-esteem, all of this the mentality of someone who has already fully embraced STS, and these people are probably only a small handful of incarnations away from reaching harvestability. Like you said, their suicide needs to be balanced, but their soul trajectory is clear.

    As for the point of determinism, Ra themselves state right after the picnic analogy that free will does indeed choose polarity:

    Quote:19.17. Questioner: Can you tell me what bias creates their momentum toward the chosen path of service to self?

    Ra: I am Ra. We can speak only in metaphor. Some love the light. Some love the darkness. It is a matter of the unique and infinitely various Creator choosing and playing among its experiences as a child upon a picnic. Some enjoy the picnic and find the sun beautiful, the food delicious, the games refreshing, and glow with the joy of creation. Some find the night delicious, their picnic being pain, difficulty, sufferings of others, and the examination of the perversities of nature. These enjoy a different picnic.

    All these experiences are available. It is free will of each entity which chooses the form of play, the form of pleasure.

    They seem to be contradicting themselves in the same answer. However, given that 3d is called the density of The Choice, and that Q'uo very often speaks about one's will being what determines one's desire, mirroring Ra's words, I'm inclined to believe that polarity is far from being something of a deterministic nature. We can't force ourselves to like many things, indeed. Normally, individuals are born with a passion for certain activities, for example, and I doubt any exercising of one's will can change the object of that passion. But polarity is different. We all can enjoy the pleasures of love and the pleasures of power; selfishness and service; control and acceptance. This is so true, that it's the very reason why the majority of the population is stuck in the sinkhole of indifference. One time they think only of themselves, and the next they do a nice thing for someone. Many forms of STS are very, very tempting, even to the best of people. But, like Ra says, if one wishes to ascend, one polarity must be abandoned, and the other embraced. One has to stop feeding a very real side of the self, and move towards a chosen path.

    Quote:And in that, you seem to think that negative polarization mainly stems from entities just thinking they are unloved, they are alone and other depressive sentiments. And you seem to think that therefore, if those 'negative' entities 'search their souls' and understand that these sentiments make them act 'negative', and realize that these sentiments are unfounded, they will just decide to 'override' their 'negative bias' and follow a positive path.

    There are other factors at play, so I don't think it's as simple as that, but do I think that STS entities are distanced from and in repression of their emotions? Without a doubt. As Ra says, STS is the path of control and repression, beginning with the self. STS entities, by definition, are not prone to identifying and honoring their own emotions and feelings. They walk the path of that which is not, and this path by necessity involves by-passing and denying a very real part of themselves: the heart chakra. Having denied a part of themselves, they turn to another energy center, the yellow ray, and focus on it to the extreme in an attempt to make up for what was lost.

    Quote:Third, there are other examples of such situations, like the 5d wanderers which lost massive polarity due to their negative acts in Ra's 3d experience, and had to repeat 4d, and actually as a part of Ra's 4d experience to boot.

    I don't think we can really understand such situations completely without more information than what Ra gave us. I can only say that an STS entity that has exclusively walked that path, probably knows nothing about what the positive path feels like. Entities such as the wanderers of Venus, once negatively polarized and being on the other side of the veil, remember each and every incarnation of theirs. By comparing from their memory what it is like to be positive and negative, they may decide they prefer the positive, despite of being currently in the negative. Alternatively, they may realize that their soul stream contains more knowledge of STO than of STS, and as such, rather than an actual inherent preference, they may simply consider it more optimal to revert polarities, in the sense that it would take them less time to get back to the Creator.

    Quote:The negative entity would put itself into positions of difficulty only if it will provide it immediate benefits, or negative polarization which it could use to gain power.

    I don't think we can generalize. The amount of different experiences that a soul can have and the reasons for wanting to have them are literally infinite. Ra said that what you described tends to happen, but I see no reason to doubt Q'uo when they say that karma affects STS entities, and it's probably for good reason: if an entity experiences all sides of any given situation (being the slave owner and being the slave) and still chooses STS even when being the object of that which he inflicted upon others, then that shows true commitment to the path.

    Quote:You seem to think that negative entities polarize negatively because of some 'mistaken perceptions' they have about being unloved or separate or other 'negative sentiments', and 'if they can discover' that these 'worries' are untrue, they could 'override' their negative spiritual bias through willpower.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not so naive as to think I can walk into a viper's nest and change everything with my love alone. There are individuals so far down the STS path, having chosen that trajectory incarnation after incarnation, that it'd be extremely difficult to convince them of the ways of love, if not downright impossible. But what I feel you are dismissing is that we are indeed beings of love. All of us. Love is our essence. This is a key and central aspect of spirituality as a whole. The TLOO very clearly states that STS entities are by-passing and denying their heart chakra. Don't you consider it relevant that at 6th density they reactivate it and start enjoying the joy of oneness and companionship?
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      • EvolvingPhoenix, Glow
    Infinite Unity (Offline)

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    #6
    06-23-2019, 07:11 AM (This post was last modified: 06-23-2019, 07:37 AM by Infinite Unity.)
    The Love that you are citing in your posts, is not the same as the distortion of love. The momentary, or temporal love/bond/feelings that entities forge for each other. Is apart of, but is not the Logoic Love.

    Many of what people call dualism, captures a better image of the nature of Love. Love is a thought, actually the thought that holds or gives birth to all those intelligently possible/probable.

    The Creator eminates Love, however The Creator is still far from fully represented, even by the most powerful potentially imbued thought; Love.


    My advice is to examine the feelings/thoughts and biases you are having towards sts configured portions of The Creator/self. Come to understand or realize that your aboration towards them is equal to there configuration, and most probably is or will lead you to your primary block/distortion.

    Have you realized your true deep pain/freedom? You are the only thing that exists.
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      • flofrog
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    #7
    06-23-2019, 08:59 AM
    We cannot forget that there is, within a STS entity, blockages occurring in the first triad of the energy centers? Blockages that are kept in place to further support the STS configuration? There is a suppression taking place within those energy centers not from imbalance on the mental/emotional level but from a blockage within the heart energy center. The blockage is maintained and empowered by the diliberate thoughts of greed, power over others and total enslavement over others and not by mental disturbances. The STS is clear about his/her chosen path and the unstable shooter in which you speak of has a mental disturbances that are created by a mental disorder. I guess what I am saying is there is one entity that is self serving and there is another that is blantantly mentally ill. One is unaware and the other is very much aware of what it does or intends to do. The one that knows it is polarizing in the negative STS path. You cannot send a pychopath love and have him to accept it, he will probably play as if her accepts your love then eat you for supper. lol. The school shooter may be engulfed in some type of fear or paranoia regarding hir relationship to other selves.
    You speak about a "sexual arousal that is unquenchable" this is a blockage within the red ray and orange ray, then later turned onto society (the yellow ray). It may be argued or agreed that the entity that loves to rape loves to watch someone beg for their life and beg for them to stop hurting them. They do not stop hurting the other self because their is pleasure derived from the act of enslaving the other to his whims. I do not feel that these types of entites ever have a pyschotic break or a break in reality which causes some to do a strange random act like a school shooting. Most school shooters have never been in trouble before they decide to act in this fashion. However, quite the contrary to the STS, which he starts very young. Usually with a family member or a small family pet.

    Mid 6th density entities do not "reactivate" love. The STS in 6th density must learn the ways of unity, that all is one. This is not an easy for them to learn, it is most difficult. The STS entity has set it's foot upon the path of separation many times over in it's incarnational patterns.

      •
    Ray711 (Offline)

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    #8
    06-23-2019, 12:07 PM
    (06-23-2019, 07:11 AM)Infinite Unity Wrote: The momentary, or temporal love/bond/feelings that entities forge for each other. Is apart of, but is not the Logoic Love.

    Agreed. It's what we have here in 3d, though, and a lot of our lessons revolve around that. If you want to look at it from a biological or evolutionary standpoint, human beings need love in order to feel that they are a valued part of the group, due to how necessary such a thing was/is for our survival. Take that love away, and the result is a very wounded being who may lash out in the most extreme of ways... or the complete opposite; he might just become all that much more compassionate due to a greater understanding of what it is to suffer great pain. That is The Choice.

    Quote:My advice is to examine the feelings/thoughts and biases you are having towards sts configured portions of The Creator/self.

    I have done some of that work, and my conclusion is that they are a part of me. I recognize that I have the potential for both STS and STO. It's just that I choose the latter. It becomes muddied when we consider STS entities who go all the way towards that choice, because then they walk for a very long time a path that is unknown to us, but I know what it is to be tempted towards STS (I believe that we all do), and what the first steps of that path feel like.

    When considering this conversation I feel it's extremely important to relate the TLOO material to real life individuals and experiences. Considering solely the material by itself and for itself here can become nothing but a circular argument. To me, the concepts of STS and STO felt so powerful because I could relate their descriptions by Ra in enormous ways to what I was aware existed within my own self, and to the readings I had done trying to understand what "evil" was.

    (06-23-2019, 08:59 AM)kristina Wrote: There is a suppression taking place within those energy centers not from imbalance on the mental/emotional level but from a blockage within the heart energy center.

    Couldn't we say that a mental or emotional imbalance is itself a blockage in one or several energy centers?

    (06-23-2019, 08:59 AM)kristina Wrote: The blockage is maintained and empowered by the diliberate thoughts of greed, power over others and total enslavement over others and not by mental disturbances.

    I agree, but how does a soul begin such a path to begin with? I believe that such people would be virtually non-existent if society were harmonious, loving and completely respectful of each and every individual. We have an example of such society in the material: Venus. Only two individuals polarized STS in the entire history of that planet's 3rd density. And they came from elsewhere! This is extremely telling, and it supports the argument that STS is usually only seen as an option when there are feelings of disharmony, separation and alienation involved.

    However, I want to stress that such feelings and mental/emotional imbalances, in my opinion, are not an inherent part of STS. I consider them to be necessary during the process of walking the first steps towards STS, but only during those beginning phases. I'll quote myself, because this is central to my position:

    Quote:the mass shooters walk into the STS path only so far. We can only guess whether they enjoyed the feelings of power and domination that they were seeking in their crimes, and to what extent. For the STS entity that has a longer incarnation, the process continues. As they begin to experiment with the feelings of power and domination, the pain and feelings of self-worthlessness that drove them towards a substitute for love probably subside. I would imagine that they start feeling re-invigorated, their self-esteem being progressively restored, until a new realization becomes self-evident in their minds: power, control and domination is what life is about. The entity declares that that's what he or she will live for. Thus, a newfound love is discovered. The love of the illusory self.

    At this point, I believe that the STS entity is fully free of any feelings of depression, isolation, or any mental or emotional imbalances.

    Quote:You cannot send a pychopath love and have him to accept it, he will probably play as if her accepts your love then eat you for supper. lol.

    I agree. I believe that psychopaths are usually souls who already have a long record of incarnations striving towards STS, though, and that one or several past incarnations already suffered the mental/emotional unbalanced stage. If I may so, though, there are some studies suggesting that even psychopaths can feel empathy if they decide to put in the effort. Wink

    Quote:The STS in 6th density must learn the ways of unity, that all is one.

    True, that's the initial motivation for switching polarities, but as stated by Q'uo, these entities then take great pleasure in the kinship and companionship that they find with others.
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      • Patrick, EvolvingPhoenix
    unity100 (Offline)

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    #9
    06-24-2019, 12:00 PM
    (06-22-2019, 05:07 PM)Ray711 Wrote: Some psychologists

    That doesnt make a case. Psychology itself feels the need to prove why it should be considered a science today. That's because it lacks empiricality to great degree, and its analysis, explanations and methods do not have universality and cannot be demonstrated to reach the same conclusions or the same results in different times they are applied.

    Therefore...

    Quote:In the case of mass shooters, the objective is very clear. They want to restore the self-esteem that they lost


    ...it cant be certainly concluded that that's their objective. We dont have a proper conclusive analysis of a 'healthy' human, actually we dont even have a definition of it. Making such sweeping conclusions as to the psychology of those unstable people like mass shooters is way far out...

    Quote:As for the point of determinism, Ra themselves state right after the picnic analogy that free will does indeed choose polarity:

    Quote:19.17. Questioner: Can you tell me what bias creates their momentum toward the chosen path of service to self?

    Ra: I am Ra. We can speak only in metaphor. Some love the light. Some love the darkness. It is a matter of the unique and infinitely various Creator choosing and playing among its experiences as a child upon a picnic. Some enjoy the picnic and find the sun beautiful, the food delicious, the games refreshing, and glow with the joy of creation. Some find the night delicious, their picnic being pain, difficulty, sufferings of others, and the examination of the perversities of nature. These enjoy a different picnic.

    All these experiences are available. It is free will of each entity which chooses the form of play, the form of pleasure.

    And the entity chooses what its deep psyche, its spiritual biases compel it to.

    And even if it chooses differently, it will eventually converge its choices in the compatible direction.

    Can the entity choose a polarity that is incompatible with its deep spiritual bias and even complete entire octave like that?

    Unlikely.

    But that's what you are expecting. You think that the negatively biased entities can and should override their inner spiritual bias through free will.

    Quote:They seem to be contradicting themselves in the same answer. However, given that 3d is called the density of The Choice, and that Q'uo very often speaks about one's will being what determines one's desire, mirroring Ra's words, I'm inclined to believe that polarity is far from being something of a deterministic nature

    That's what you are interpreting to satisfy your approach.

    Free will manifests according to the inner spiritual bias of the entity. It is not something that just overrides it externally as if coming from outside, or above.

    Mind is a projection of the spirit, and body is a projection of the mind. The overall entity which manifests in that body, decides on which action to take through its mind complex, therefore manifests free will by choosing its actions.

    Yet that significator that acts is part of the greater entity, which manifests through the body complex, then through the mind complex, which comes from the spirit complex.

    You are suggesting that that entity could 'just' override its innate spiritual bias through the mind complex by making different choices.

    It will. Then in the long run it will twist its choices to according to its spiritual bias.



    Quote:STS entities are distanced from and in repression of their emotions? Without a doubt. As Ra says, STS is the path of control and repression, beginning with the self. STS entities, by definition, are not prone to identifying and honoring their own emotions and feelings. They walk the path of that which is not, and this path by necessity involves by-passing and denying a very real part of themselves: the heart chakra. Having denied a part of themselves, they turn to another energy center, the yellow ray, and focus on it to the extreme in an attempt to make up for what was lost.

    And they are perfectly happy with that, since its their choice and its their decision per their spiritual inclination...

    You wont be able to persuade them to the folly of that choice by advocacy.

    Quote:I don't think we can really understand such situations completely without more information than what Ra gave us.

    But you are making exacting conclusions on other matters which are even more complex, and on things which are even spiritual fundamentals. It sounds like you are just veering to obscurantism because the example above does not support your perspective.

    Quote:I can only say that an STS entity that has exclusively walked that path, probably knows nothing about what the positive path feels like.

    That's incorrect. Every entity is provided all kinds of experiences until a spiritual bias makes itself apparent, as Ra explains. No entity graduates 3d without knowing all the varieties of emotions of what you would consider positive or negative emotions.

    They do. And they make their choice.


    Quote:Don't get me wrong, I'm not so naive as to think I can walk into a viper's nest and change everything with my love alone. There are individuals so far down the STS path, having chosen that trajectory incarnation after incarnation, that it'd be extremely difficult to convince them of the ways of love, if not downright impossible. But what I feel you are dismissing is that we are indeed beings of love.

    'We' are everything. We are not beings of love as such narrowly defined. We are beings of hate as well as beings of love, we are beings of sorrow as well as beings of joy. We are everything.

    Trying to ignore and invalidate one part of the infinity wont produce results.

    Quote:The TLOO very clearly states that STS entities are by-passing and denying their heart chakra. Don't you consider it relevant that at 6th density they reactivate it and start enjoying the joy of oneness and companionship?

    Except the catch is they activate the heart chakra in mid 6d environment, an environment of unity. They dont activate it in the polarized manner of 4d positive. Or 3d positive, or even 3d unpolarized environment.

    At that point, the green ray as you define being a being of love is balanced with the blue ray sufficiently that it provides for the indigo which unifies all.
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      • flofrog
    Sacred Fool (Offline)

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    #10
    06-24-2019, 04:10 PM
    My, my, such a spirited discussion.

    In regards to the idea of analyzing STS operations & mindset, you may wish to not merely consider neophyte examples (compulsive rapists, murders, etc.), but also some masters.  In the latter cases, the rigid constructs of STO & STS may begin to melt.


    Excerpted from The Golden Letters by John Myrdhin Reynolds, Snow Lion Publications 1996. Wrote:According to the Nyingmapa tradition, Nubchen was born into the clan of Nub (gNubs) in the Drak Valley. At the young age of seven he became a master of the Tantras and received from Guru Padmasambhava the initiations for the sGrub-pa bka'-brgyad, the Sadhana Practices of the Eight Herukas. During the course of the initiation ceremony, when he tossed a flower into the Mandala of these Eight Herukas, it fell into the region of the Mandala associated with the residence of Yamantaka (gshin-rje gshed), the wrathful aspect of Manjushri, the Great Bodhisattva of Wisdom, who manifests dark indigo in color, having a horned buffalo head. After practicing the sadhana of Yamantaka for twenty-one days, he received a vision of the terrifying face of that meditation deity. Thus, Yamantaka became his yi-dam, or personal meditation deity that forms the basis of one's practice, and the glorious Bodhisattva Manjushri himself bestowed upon the boy a prodigious memory and a supreme intelligence. When he grew to adolescence, by means of his magical powers acquired through Yamantaka practice, he destroyed the compounds of thirty-seven warring hostile villages in Drak district and drove back their armed men with magically conjured fire. Indeed, through his meditation practice, he became the consummate master of the Fierce Mantras (drag-sngags), the black magic that destroys the enemies of the Dharma. In the cave of Drag-yang-dzang, his purpa, or three-bladed magic dagger, pierced the solid rock of the cliffside as if it were butter. It is said that Nubchen afterwards visited India, Nepal, and Gilgit, where he directly received teachings and secret instructions from Shrisimha, Vimalamitra, Shantigarbha, Dhanashila, Vasudhara of Nepal, and Chetsunke of Gilgit; and in Tibet he received esoteric teachings from Nyag Jnanakumara, Sogpo Palgyi Yeshe, and Zhang Gyalwe Yontan. Thus, all the lineages of transmission for Mahayoga, for Anuyoga, and for Dzogchen Semde converged in him.

    When in the ninth century, King Langdarma and his hostile ministers set about to suppress the Indian Buddhist teachings and to close the Buddhist monasteries such as Samye, he summoned the Tantric master Nubchen Sangye Yeshe and his disciples into his presence, although all of them were not Buddhist monks but rather Tantrikas (sngags-pa). The arrogant king challenged Nubchen, inquiring, "And what power do you have?"

    "Just observe the power I can manifest merely from the reciting of mantras!" Nubchen replied and raised his right hand in the threatening gesture of tarjini-mudra.

    Instantly, in the sky above the Tantric sorcerer, the king saw nine giant scorpions appear, each the size of a wild yak. The king was terrified at this vision. So he promptly promised not to harm the white-robbed Buddhist Tantrikas and to refrain from disrobing and exiling them as he had done with the maroon-robbed Buddhist monks. Then Nubchen pointed again into the sky with a threatening gesture, and lightning flashed from heaven, shattering into pieces a nearby boulder.

    Doubly terrified, the king vowed, "I will not in any way harm you or your white-robbed followers!" and he ordered that his prisoners be released. because of the mighty magical powers of this Tantrika Nubchen, the anti-Buddhist king could not destroy the esoteric teachings of the Mahayoga Tantras nor their white-robbed practitioners, the Ngakpas (sngags-pa, one who uses mantras). Subsequently, this Tantric Order of Nyingmapa Buddhists has flourished among the Tibetans until this day.
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      • flofrog
    flofrog (Offline)

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    #11
    06-25-2019, 01:28 AM (This post was last modified: 06-25-2019, 01:41 AM by flofrog.)
    Whoa, peregrine, aren’t you shaking this thread ... Wink

    Nisargadatta said
    Quote:
    “Whatever happens, happens to you by you, through you; you are the creator, enjoyer and destroyer of all you perceive.”

    I have a feeling he silently watched Nubchen Wink

      •
    Ray711 (Offline)

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    #12
    06-25-2019, 06:26 AM (This post was last modified: 06-25-2019, 06:27 AM by Ray711.)
    That was an interesting read, peregrine, thanks. Q'uo (and maybe Ra?) has often talked about the need to control others for their own good as another form of walking the first steps towards STS. The use of fear for supposed STO purposes is still STS, as evidenced by what happened to the wanderers of Venus, who thought that the disharmony they were bringing was what that society needed.

    (06-24-2019, 12:00 PM)unity100 Wrote: That doesnt make a case. Psychology itself feels the need to prove why it should be considered a science today.

    Oh, come on. We're in a place revolving around the study of a body of ideas communicated telepathically through a woman in trance by an extraterrestrial entity who is also from an alternate dimension... and we're gonna talk about the empirical value of the ideas discussed?  BigSmile

    Having studied psychology, I disagree with your statement on that science, but honestly, who or what field that idea that I mentioned came from was the least important part. I see that you're very quick to dismiss said idea (that every action, thought and feeling has a purpose in covering one need or another). Honestly, it feels that you have embraced a somewhat self-defeating attitude in regard to understanding the actions and motivations of these people. I don't claim that the ideas I present are the truth, but if I may make the following suggestion, the density that we are aspiring to is called the density of love and understanding. Simply labeling someone's apparently erratic actions or thought patterns as "mental instability" is not an attempt at understanding. In fact, I guarantee you that if you tell any of these people that they are simply "unstable", they will feel anything but loved.

    The idea of a bias is our main point of disagreement, so I will focus on that.

    I think we need to distinguish the incarnational bias and the soul bias.

    Every individuated soul is both equal to and unique in regard to all other souls. This bias can lean a soul more towards STS or towards STO (Q'uo said as much). On this point we agree. What we seem to disagree on is the degree of influence of this bias. My position is that, since we are all one and every thing, one soul can potentiate either the aspects of themselves that are STS or the STO aspects, and then complete the octave through any of the two paths. The soul bias, thus, leaning slightly towards one side or the other, but not being of a highly deterministic nature.

    Then there's the incarnational bias. This bias is intimately linked with the inertia caused by the previous experiences contained within the soul stream. The soul chooses the mental and emotional biases of the incarnation, which undoubtedly reflect the polarity that the overall soul stream has been leaning towards. This may make it look like some people are inherently prone towards one polarity or the other, but while that statement is by itself correct (only in regards to incarnated people), it says nothing about the souls themselves. Nonetheless, looking at what we can see here in 3d, it's very obvious that temptations towards both polarities are ever-present, no matter the individual's biases. Carla, Don and Jim themselves were constantly tempted by negative entities during their work with Ra, and while one can make the argument that they remained on the STO path, I would say that a temptation is no such thing if there is no possibility of being tempted.

    I want to go back to the picnic analogy, because I just thought that Ra's words are usually seen out of context:

    Quote:19.16 ▶ Questioner: Then, through free will, some time in the third-density experience, the path splits and an entity consciously— probably does not consciously choose. Does an entity consciously choose this path at the initial splitting point?

    Ra: I am Ra. We speak in generalities which is dangerous for always inaccurate. However, we realize you look for the overview; so we will eliminate anomalies and speak of majorities.

    The majority of third-density beings is far along the chosen path before realization of that path is conscious.

    19.17 ▶ Questioner: Can you tell me what bias creates their momentum toward the chosen path of service to self?

    Ra: I am Ra. We can speak only in metaphor. Some love the light. Some love the darkness. It is a matter of the unique and infinitely various Creator choosing and playing among its experiences as a child upon a picnic. Some enjoy the picnic and find the sun beautiful, the food delicious, the games refreshing, and glow with the joy of creation. Some find the night delicious, their picnic being pain, difficulty, sufferings of others, and the examination of the perversities of nature. These enjoy a different picnic.

    All these experiences are available. It is free will of each entity which chooses the form of play, the form of pleasure.

    19.18 ▶ Questioner: I assume that an entity on either path can decide to choose paths at any time and possibly retrace steps, the path-changing being more difficult the farther along is gone. Is this correct?

    Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The further an entity has, what you would call, polarized, the more easily this entity may change polarity, for the more power and awareness the entity will have.

    Those truly helpless are those who have not consciously chosen but who repeat patterns without knowledge of the repetition or the meaning of the pattern.

    The first bolded part is in support of the notion of a bias in the soul. When Ra makes their picnic analogy, they are speaking exclusively about this bias which leans the individual towards unconscious actions and thought patterns. No conscious choice has been made yet. And indeed, the rest of the bolded text is in direct support of the extreme importance of making choices consciously, rather than being unconsciously directed by one's biases.

    Quote:94.11 ▶ Questioner: I have drawn a small diagram in which I simply show an arrow which represents catalyst penetrating a line at right angles to the arrow, which is the veil, and then depositing in one of two repositories, one which I would call on the right-hand path, one on the left-hand path; and I have labeled these two repositories for the catalytic action as it’s filtered through the veil “the Experience.” Would this be a very rough analogy of the way the catalyst is filtered through the veil to become experience?

    Ra: I am Ra. Again, you are partially correct. The deeper biases of a mind/body/spirit complex pilot the catalyst around the many isles of positivity and negativity as expressed in the archipelago of the deeper mind. However, the analogy is incorrect in that it does not take into account the further polarization which most certainly is available to the conscious mind after it has perceived the partially polarized catalyst from the deeper mind.

    Again, the importance of the biases is affirmed, but followed by the reconfirmation that doing polarization work in a conscious fashion is the most important part. If the bias was the most important aspect, then there would be no need to make conscious decisions. Our biases alone would drive every soul towards the preferred polarity to a harvestable degree. No one would stay at the sinkhole of indifference. And yet, most do.

    Quote:That's incorrect. Every entity is provided all kinds of experiences until a spiritual bias makes itself apparent, as Ra explains. No entity graduates 3d without knowing all the varieties of emotions of what you would consider positive or negative emotions.

    They do. And they make their choice.

    This is an interesting point that you're making, but I'm not sure to what degree it is accurate. Placing entities under situations of great love and admiration from others is not a particularly efficient kind of catalyst. Pretty much everyone will choose love under such circumstances (as evidenced by the lack of a negative harvest on Venus), but that speaks very little about an entity's commitment to Love. The real test, and this is true for STS and STO alike, is what the entity will do once it's placed in situations of great lack of love.

    Quote:'We' are everything. We are not beings of love as such narrowly defined. We are beings of hate as well as beings of love, we are beings of sorrow as well as beings of joy. We are everything.

    Yes, that's a point I've made several times myself. But first and foremost, we are Love. The Creation's creative force was Love, because that's what the Creator chose as the foundation to all. All things that we experience are distortions of Love. We need love. It's the reason for our existence. The only way to draw entities towards the STS path was to fool them temporarily into believing that they are not already unconditionally loved, via the veil.

    Quote:105.17 ▶ Questioner: Now, as an example I would like to take the distortion of a disease or bodily malfunction prior to [the] veil and compare it to that after the veil. Let us assume that the conditions that Jim, for instance, experienced with respect to his kidney malfunction had been an experience that occurred prior to the veil. Would this experience have occurred prior to the veil? Would it have been different? And if so, how?

    Ra: I am Ra. The anger of separation is impossible without the veil. The lack of awareness of the body’s need for liquid is unlikely without the veil. The decision to contemplate perfection in discipline is quite improbable without the veil.

    In the poker analogy, Ra says this:

    Quote:In time/space and in the true-color green density, the hands of all are open to the eye. The thoughts, the feelings, the troubles, all these may be seen. There is no deception and no desire for deception.

    This is highly incompatible with your belief that some souls just have an inherent desire to control, to dominate, to deceive.
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      • EvolvingPhoenix
    kristina (Offline)

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    #13
    06-25-2019, 08:30 AM
    (06-25-2019, 06:26 AM)Ray711 Wrote: That was an interesting read, peregrine, thanks. Q'uo (and maybe Ra?) has often talked about the need to control others for their own good as another form of walking the first steps towards STS. The use of fear for supposed STO purposes is still STS, as evidenced by what happened to the wanderers of Venus, who thought that the disharmony they were bringing was what that society needed.


    (06-24-2019, 12:00 PM)unity100 Wrote: That doesnt make a case. Psychology itself feels the need to prove why it should be considered a science today.

    Oh, come on. We're in a place revolving around the study of a body of ideas communicated telepathically through a woman in trance by an extraterrestrial entity who is also from an alternate dimension... and we're gonna talk about the empirical value of the ideas discussed?  BigSmile

    Having studied psychology, I disagree with your statement on that science, but honestly, who or what field that idea that I mentioned came from was the least important part. I see that you're very quick to dismiss said idea (that every action, thought and feeling has a purpose in covering one need or another). Honestly, it feels that you have embraced a somewhat self-defeating attitude in regard to understanding the actions and motivations of these people. I don't claim that the ideas I present are the truth, but if I may make the following suggestion, the density that we are aspiring to is called the density of love and understanding. Simply labeling someone's apparently erratic actions or thought patterns as "mental instability" is not an attempt at understanding. In fact, I guarantee you that if you tell any of these people that they are simply "unstable", they will feel anything but loved.

    The idea of a bias is our main point of disagreement, so I will focus on that.

    I think we need to distinguish the incarnational bias and the soul bias.

    Every individuated soul is both equal to and unique in regard to all other souls. This bias can lean a soul more towards STS or towards STO (Q'uo said as much). On this point we agree. What we seem to disagree on is the degree of influence of this bias. My position is that, since we are all one and every thing, one soul can potentiate either the aspects of themselves that are STS or the STO aspects, and then complete the octave through any of the two paths. The soul bias, thus, leaning slightly towards one side or the other, but not being of a highly deterministic nature.

    Then there's the incarnational bias. This bias is intimately linked with the inertia caused by the previous experiences contained within the soul stream. The soul chooses the mental and emotional biases of the incarnation, which undoubtedly reflect the polarity that the overall soul stream has been leaning towards. This may make it look like some people are inherently prone towards one polarity or the other, but while that statement is by itself correct (only in regards to incarnated people), it says nothing about the souls themselves. Nonetheless, looking at what we can see here in 3d, it's very obvious that temptations towards both polarities are ever-present, no matter the individual's biases. Carla, Don and Jim themselves were constantly tempted by negative entities during their work with Ra, and while one can make the argument that they remained on the STO path, I would say that a temptation is no such thing if there is no possibility of being tempted.

    I want to go back to the picnic analogy, because I just thought that Ra's words are usually seen out of context:


    Quote:19.16 ▶ Questioner: Then, through free will, some time in the third-density experience, the path splits and an entity consciously— probably does not consciously choose. Does an entity consciously choose this path at the initial splitting point?

    Ra: I am Ra. We speak in generalities which is dangerous for always inaccurate. However, we realize you look for the overview; so we will eliminate anomalies and speak of majorities.

    The majority of third-density beings is far along the chosen path before realization of that path is conscious.

    19.17 ▶ Questioner: Can you tell me what bias creates their momentum toward the chosen path of service to self?

    Ra: I am Ra. We can speak only in metaphor. Some love the light. Some love the darkness. It is a matter of the unique and infinitely various Creator choosing and playing among its experiences as a child upon a picnic. Some enjoy the picnic and find the sun beautiful, the food delicious, the games refreshing, and glow with the joy of creation. Some find the night delicious, their picnic being pain, difficulty, sufferings of others, and the examination of the perversities of nature. These enjoy a different picnic.

    All these experiences are available. It is free will of each entity which chooses the form of play, the form of pleasure.

    19.18 ▶ Questioner: I assume that an entity on either path can decide to choose paths at any time and possibly retrace steps, the path-changing being more difficult the farther along is gone. Is this correct?

    Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The further an entity has, what you would call, polarized, the more easily this entity may change polarity, for the more power and awareness the entity will have.

    Those truly helpless are those who have not consciously chosen but who repeat patterns without knowledge of the repetition or the meaning of the pattern.

    The first bolded part is in support of the notion of a bias in the soul. When Ra makes their picnic analogy, they are speaking exclusively about this bias which leans the individual towards unconscious actions and thought patterns. No conscious choice has been made yet. And indeed, the rest of the bolded text is in direct support of the extreme importance of making choices consciously, rather than being unconsciously directed by one's biases.


    Quote:94.11 ▶ Questioner: I have drawn a small diagram in which I simply show an arrow which represents catalyst penetrating a line at right angles to the arrow, which is the veil, and then depositing in one of two repositories, one which I would call on the right-hand path, one on the left-hand path; and I have labeled these two repositories for the catalytic action as it’s filtered through the veil “the Experience.” Would this be a very rough analogy of the way the catalyst is filtered through the veil to become experience?

    Ra: I am Ra. Again, you are partially correct. The deeper biases of a mind/body/spirit complex pilot the catalyst around the many isles of positivity and negativity as expressed in the archipelago of the deeper mind. However, the analogy is incorrect in that it does not take into account the further polarization which most certainly is available to the conscious mind after it has perceived the partially polarized catalyst from the deeper mind.

    Again, the importance of the biases is affirmed, but followed by the reconfirmation that doing polarization work in a conscious fashion is the most important part. If the bias was the most important aspect, then there would be no need to make conscious decisions. Our biases alone would drive every soul towards the preferred polarity to a harvestable degree. No one would stay at the sinkhole of indifference. And yet, most do.


    Quote:That's incorrect. Every entity is provided all kinds of experiences until a spiritual bias makes itself apparent, as Ra explains. No entity graduates 3d without knowing all the varieties of emotions of what you would consider positive or negative emotions.

    They do. And they make their choice.

    This is an interesting point that you're making, but I'm not sure to what degree it is accurate. Placing entities under situations of great love and admiration from others is not a particularly efficient kind of catalyst. Pretty much everyone will choose love under such circumstances (as evidenced by the lack of a negative harvest on Venus), but that speaks very little about an entity's commitment to Love. The real test, and this is true for STS and STO alike, is what the entity will do once it's placed in situations of great lack of love.


    Quote:'We' are everything. We are not beings of love as such narrowly defined. We are beings of hate as well as beings of love, we are beings of sorrow as well as beings of joy. We are everything.

    Yes, that's a point I've made several times myself. But first and foremost, we are Love. The Creation's creative force was Love, because that's what the Creator chose as the foundation to all. All things that we experience are distortions of Love. We need love. It's the reason for our existence. The only way to draw entities towards the STS path was to fool them temporarily into believing that they are not already unconditionally loved, via the veil.


    Quote:105.17 ▶ Questioner: Now, as an example I would like to take the distortion of a disease or bodily malfunction prior to [the] veil and compare it to that after the veil. Let us assume that the conditions that Jim, for instance, experienced with respect to his kidney malfunction had been an experience that occurred prior to the veil. Would this experience have occurred prior to the veil? Would it have been different? And if so, how?

    Ra: I am Ra. The anger of separation is impossible without the veil. The lack of awareness of the body’s need for liquid is unlikely without the veil. The decision to contemplate perfection in discipline is quite improbable without the veil.

    In the poker analogy, Ra says this:


    Quote:In time/space and in the true-color green density, the hands of all are open to the eye. The thoughts, the feelings, the troubles, all these may be seen. There is no deception and no desire for deception.

    This is highly incompatible with your belief that some souls just have an inherent desire to control, to dominate, to deceive.

    Sometimes it's the way one delivers the truth makes the difference. If someone said, "oh you're a nut and you're crazy"...that will not be well received, however, if love guides the truth I don't see an entity could go wrong. There is mental instability and that person leaves this incarnation and goes through a healing process.

    Quote:Thus the shortened life span is due to the necessity for removing an entity from the intensity of experience which ensues when wisdom and love are, having been rejected, reflected back into the consciousness of the Creator without being accepted as part of the self, this then causing the entity to have the need for healing and for much evaluation of the incarnation.
    There are mental configurations that cause an entity to do things that if it were healthy otherwise, it would not do.

      •
    unity100 (Offline)

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    #14
    06-25-2019, 01:04 PM (This post was last modified: 06-26-2019, 04:19 PM by unity100.)
    (06-25-2019, 06:26 AM)Ray711 Wrote:
    (06-24-2019, 12:00 PM)unity100 Wrote: That doesnt make a case. Psychology itself feels the need to prove why it should be considered a science today.

    Oh, come on. We're in a place revolving around the study of a body of ideas communicated telepathically through a woman in trance by an extraterrestrial entity who is also from an alternate dimension... and we're gonna talk about the empirical value of the ideas discussed?  BigSmile

    Thats not the case - you are making a definite conclusion which even the science-to-be psychology avoids making today due to the lack of methodology or practical evidence. Then you are building all your assumptions on that.

    If you put the definite conclusion you used here in a psychology forum, they will challenge it there as well.

    Therefore it cannot be used to make the conclusions you are making.

    Your proposition may or may not be correct. At the current state it cannot be used for definite statements, less building entire larger arguments on top of it...

    Quote:Honestly, it feels that you have embraced a somewhat self-defeating attitude in regard to understanding the actions and motivations of these people. I don't claim that the ideas I present are the truth, but if I may make the following suggestion, the density that we are aspiring to is called the density of love and understanding. Simply labeling someone's apparently erratic actions or thought patterns as "mental instability" is not an attempt at understanding.

    We define mental instability broadly as behavior sets which do not allow an individual to reasonably function and survive within a social context. In the more extreme cases, we define them as behaviors which may harm the individual or make the individual dysfunctional even without any interaction with any other being. Like in self-harming behaviors.

    The behavior set of such shooters or similar people fit that mold exactly.

    Quote:In fact, I guarantee you that if you tell any of these people that they are simply "unstable", they will feel anything but loved.

    You cannot solve things by ignoring the nature of those things and approaching if they dont exist - neither will doing as such to make such people feel loved will change anything after they killed dozens of people.

    To make an analogy, it would be like a construction engineer saying 'Lets not say the bridge has fallen, because if we say so, it will be even more fallen' after a bridge that has been built has fallen due to whatsoever reason and is in tatters.

    The productive approach is to recognize the situation as it is, and then address it with whatever you need to address it.

    Quote:I think we need to distinguish the incarnational bias and the soul bias. Then there's the incarnational bias. This bias is intimately linked with the inertia caused by the previous experiences contained within the soul stream. The soul chooses the mental and emotional biases of the incarnation, which undoubtedly reflect the polarity that the overall soul stream has been leaning towards.

    I think you have created this term, incarnational bias...

    Anything that happens in an incarnation, if it is of any importance and value, reflects to the spirit as the spiritual bias as explained in the material. A grand majority of the events and preferences in incarnations are dropped and never remembered or carried to another incarnation. The spiritual bias is the true bias and indicator of the entity, and it stays.

    There isnt a place to keep a bias in between incarnations other than the spirit - body is left behind. Even the mind complex that is greatly tied to the situations during an incarnation (society, the vibrational state of the planet and the society, entity's own development) greatly changes and discards a majority of the biases it gained during incarnation, to enable it to have another incarnation in another environment.

    One could speak of residual mental bias or even body bias, but any of those who permanently pertain to the entity evaluate to biases of the spirit. Which, does not easily change, and is an indicator of the entity, manifesting through its mind and body during harvest. In case of mental or bodily biases which are carried from incarnation to incarnation, we cannot say that these would be universal concepts as to override spiritual bias of an entity in the long run. Since in the long run, they will have changed anyway.

    Quote:My position is that, since we are all one and every thing, one soul can potentiate either the aspects of themselves that are STS or the STO aspects, and then complete the octave through any of the two paths. The soul bias, thus, leaning slightly towards one side or the other, but not being of a highly deterministic nature.

    Yeah, and thats where i insist that you are incorrect, as we see from the numerous examples that are included in the material which tell us the role of spiritual bias and its effect on the length of the route of the entity back to the creator.

    Even more:

    https://www.lawofone.info/results.php?s=16#59

    Spiritual bias is the defining factor which separates wanderers from the 3d entities on a given planet. Mind changes, body changes. But the spiritual complex and its bias defines the entity.

    Quote:This may make it look like some people are inherently prone towards one polarity or the other, but while that statement is by itself correct (only in regards to incarnated people), it says nothing about the souls themselves.

    Soul is not a separate concept than the entity. That is so in christian religion. In spiritualism in general, and particularly in Ra material, spirit (soul) is what defines an entity when it gains consciousness towards the end of 2d experience.

    Quote:Carla, Don and Jim themselves were constantly tempted by negative entities during their work with Ra, and while one can make the argument that they remained on the STO path

    Due to their spiritual bias as explained by the wanderer quote above...

    Quote:I want to go back to the picnic analogy, because I just thought that Ra's words are usually seen out of context:

    Quote:19.16 ▶ Questioner: Then, through free will, some time in the third-density experience, the path splits and an entity consciously— probably does not consciously choose. Does an entity consciously choose this path at the initial splitting point?

    Ra: I am Ra. We speak in generalities which is dangerous for always inaccurate. However, we realize you look for the overview; so we will eliminate anomalies and speak of majorities.

    The majority of third-density beings is far along the chosen path before realization of that path is conscious.

    19.17 ▶ Questioner: Can you tell me what bias creates their momentum toward the chosen path of service to self?

    Ra: I am Ra. We can speak only in metaphor. Some love the light. Some love the darkness. It is a matter of the unique and infinitely various Creator choosing and playing among its experiences as a child upon a picnic. Some enjoy the picnic and find the sun beautiful, the food delicious, the games refreshing, and glow with the joy of creation. Some find the night delicious, their picnic being pain, difficulty, sufferings of others, and the examination of the perversities of nature. These enjoy a different picnic.

    All these experiences are available. It is free will of each entity which chooses the form of play, the form of pleasure.

    19.18 ▶ Questioner: I assume that an entity on either path can decide to choose paths at any time and possibly retrace steps, the path-changing being more difficult the farther along is gone. Is this correct?

    Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The further an entity has, what you would call, polarized, the more easily this entity may change polarity, for the more power and awareness the entity will have.

    Those truly helpless are those who have not consciously chosen but who repeat patterns without knowledge of the repetition or the meaning of the pattern.

    The first bolded part is in support of the notion of a bias in the soul. When Ra makes their picnic analogy, they are speaking exclusively about this bias which leans the individual towards unconscious actions and thought patterns. No conscious choice has been made yet. And indeed, the rest of the bolded text is in direct support of the extreme importance of making choices consciously, rather than being unconsciously directed by one's biases.

    As you will remember from the harvest requirements of 3d, the choice does not need to be conscious. This is one factor which prevents the broad interpretation which you are trying to apply to the picnic example, and...

    Quote:....Some enjoy the picnic and find the sun beautiful, the food delicious, the games refreshing, and glow with the joy of creation. Some find the night delicious, their picnic being pain, difficulty, sufferings of others, and the examination of the perversities of nature. These enjoy a different picnic.....

    ...what you are proposing is that the positive entities can 'just' stop enjoying the positive aspects of creation, and negative entities can just stop enjoying the negative aspects of the creation.

    Ie - entities can 'just' act against their very inner, fundamental spiritual biases.

    They can.

    It just does not end up being effective and is abandoned in the long run.

    Otherwise there would be no problems for positive entities tricked and placed in negative time/space. They could 'just' override their inner spiritual bias of positivity through choices and easily continue their journey back to the creator. But it does not happen that way - Instead the positively biased entity which is placed in a negative environment finds its journey back to the creator longer and more difficult due to having to follow the negative path

    https://www.lawofone.info/results.php?s=69#11

    Quote:69.11 ▶ Questioner: Can you tell me of the situation that the Wanderer finds itself in and why the path back cannot be the simple moving back into the same value of positive time/space?

    Ra: I am Ra. The path back revolves, firstly, about the higher self’s reluctance to enter negative space/time. This may be a significant part of the length of that path. Secondly, when a positively oriented entity incarnates in a thoroughly negative environment it must needs learn/teach the lessons of the love of self thus becoming one with its other-selves.

    When this has been accomplished the entity may then choose to release the potential difference and change polarities.

    However, the process of learning the accumulated lessons of love of self may be quite lengthy. Also the entity, in learning these lessons, may lose much positive orientation during the process and the choice of reversing polarities may be delayed until the mid-sixth density. All of this is, in your way of measurement, time-consuming although the end result is well.

    https://www.lawofone.info/results.php?s=69#15

    Quote:69.15 ▶ Questioner: It would seem to me that this would be an extremely difficult situation for the positively polarized entity and the learning process would be extremely traumatic. Is this correct?

    Ra: I am Ra. Let us say that the positively polarized individual makes a poor student of the love of self and thus spends much more time, if you will, than those native to that pattern of vibrations.

    The same applies to negative entities. A negative leaning entity would similarly find the route difficult and long.

    ............

    Is it technically possible?

    Yes, as we can see from the example of the tricked wanderer...

    Could many entities do the same and collectively force positive path on themselves despite their negative spiritual bias?

    Yes.

    But there comes the kicker:

    Even if the newly polarizing 3d entity consciously forces a path different than its spiritual bias on itself and polarizes to the other direction, this will just cause other entities in different locations (or times) to polarize to the different direction to keep the balance of polarities in a given octave

    That is because the ratios are always the same, and polarity weights are maintained:

    https://www.lawofone.info/results.php?s=7#15

    Quote:7.15 ▶ Questioner: What is the density of the Orion group?

    Ra: I am Ra. Like the Confederation, the densities of the mass consciousnesses which comprise that group are varied. There are a very few third density, a larger number of fourth density, a similarly large number of fifth density, and very few sixth-density entities comprising this organization. Their numbers are perhaps one-tenth ours at any point in the space/time continuum as the problem of spiritual entropy causes them to experience constant disintegration of their social memory complexes. Their power is the same as ours. The Law of One blinks neither at the light or the darkness, but is available for service to others and service to self. However, service to others results in service to self, thus preserving and further harmonizing the distortions of those entities seeking intelligent infinity through these disciplines.

    So, your proposition of negatively polarized entities 'just' overriding their inner spiritual bias with positive will just cause other entities doing the opposite to keep the balance of polarities in the creation.

    So even if it was reasonable and it was done, it would just end up where it started...

    Quote:Yes, that's a point I've made several times myself. But first and foremost, we are Love. The Creation's creative force was Love, because that's what the Creator chose as the foundation to all. All things that we experience are distortions of Love. We need love. It's the reason for our existence. The only way to draw entities towards the STS path was to fool them temporarily into believing that they are not already unconditionally loved, via the veil.

    That love you speak of is different from the green ray energy you confuse it with. That was noted in the material as a problem of English language. There isnt a separate word for it in English.

    'Joy' could be more appropriate for that universal attribute which you are identifying the creator with. The love of green energy you talk about is 1/8th subset of it.

    Quote:In the poker analogy, Ra says this:

    Quote:In time/space and in the true-color green density, the hands of all are open to the eye. The thoughts, the feelings, the troubles, all these may be seen. There is no deception and no desire for deception.

    This is highly incompatible with your belief that some souls just have an inherent desire to control, to dominate, to deceive.

    You are confusing the concepts: controlling and dominating do not necessarily require deceit:

    Negative entities do not feel the need to deceive when they contact any negatively polarized 3d entity, if you remember.

    Therefore you cannot interpret the above quote as 'there is no negativity in 4d' as you just did.

    ........

    I leave you with the equation that renders your proposition unworkable:

    https://www.lawofone.info/results.php?s=7#15

    Even if it was rational (it isnt) for entities to override their spiritual bias and they did it, creation would override biases of other entities in the same planet or somewhere else in the creation to balance the scale.
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      • flofrog, kristina, EvolvingPhoenix
    kristina (Offline)

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    #15
    06-25-2019, 04:35 PM
    The terms “psychotic” and “psychopath” are used a lot in popular culture, sometimes interchangeably. But they refer to two different mental health problems, both of them serious.
    If someone is psychotic (or has what doctors call psychosis), their mind is losing its grip on reality. A psychopath is someone who isn’t able to feel for others and may act in reckless and antisocial ways.
    Psychosis is often a symptom of another condition, while psychopathy is a personality trait. Less than 1% of people are believed to be psychopaths. Most are men, but it can happen in women, too.
    What is psychosis?
    It’s when something affects how your brain understands the world around you. It’s sometimes called a psychotic episode.
    Psychosis can make it hard to think or speak in a way that makes sense to others. It can make you see, hear, or feel things that aren’t there (a hallucination).
    It may involve delusions, meaning you believe something that’s not true even when the facts all point the other way. For example, you might be convinced that someone is trying to hurt you or that someone else is controlling your thoughts.
    If you’re having a psychotic episode, you might be depressed or anxious or have trouble sleeping. It also can make you feel frightened, withdraw from others, or stop taking care of yourself.
    About 3 people in 100 will have some sort of psychotic episode during their lifetime. These can be frightening and confusing, but getting medical help quickly when it happens can help prevent further problems.
    What causes psychosis?
    The best-known causes of psychosis are mental illnesses like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, but several other things can bring on a psychotic episode or make you more likely to have one:
    Illnesses that attack your brain and nerves, such as Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, or epilepsy
    Traumatic events like a violent attack
    Some drugs like LSD, or amphetamines
    Going a long time without sleep
    What is psychopathy?
    People who are psychopaths don’t live by social rules or expectations. For example, they might:
    Lie often
    Have an inflated view of themselves
    Not be able to control their impulses
    Not feel guilt or regret for actions that hurt others
    Try to manipulate other people
    Psychopaths often come across as charming and engaging at first, but they may become demanding or physically aggressive. Some have early behavioral problems or commit violent crimes.
    Just for anyone wondering the difference between someone who is clinically insane (before treatment) and someone with a personality "disorder".....I give some idea of the differences.

      •
    Sacred Fool (Offline)

    becoming transparent to eternity
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    #16
    06-25-2019, 10:33 PM (This post was last modified: 06-25-2019, 11:09 PM by Sacred Fool.)
       
      
    Thus far in this discussion the following idea has not yet been voiced, so I offer it now for your toothsome consideration.  Suppose a late 5D+ or early 6D+ entity compared the trajectory of the pos. & neg. paths and decided that a 6D- entity arrives at the same place with a far more developed facility for wisdom.  (This would be due to its having had compensated for diminished love by over developing wisdom in order to learn to accept progressively higher grades of light.).  Then suppose that this entity decides to wander off and participate in 4D- & 5D- zones so as to deepen its own facility for wisdom.  Then suppose that it takes incarnation here on this planet, having done all that, and hopes to process and balance all that out.  What do you suppose that could look like?

    If the concept interests you, you might look at how the Q'uo replied when the question was put to them several years ago.

    https://llresearch.org/transcripts/issue..._0414.aspx


    In sum:

    First, when asked to say a word to those whose energy profiles are strong in the upper and lower energy centers, yet weak at the heart:

    Quote:We would suggest that such entities experiencing this pattern of energy expenditure may profitably consider that they may well have chosen to incarnate in third density upon the Earth at this time in order to effect a more harmonious and full balancing of the energies which you may call love, light, power and peace. We offer these words to indicate the dimensions of love and wisdom, or the lessons of fourth density and fifth density, that are studied in sixth density in order to unify and solidify the point of awareness that contains all of the consciousness that is granted to all aspects of the creative principle.

    Those who have experienced a far more comprehensive course of study in wisdom than in compassion move into third density not only to be of service to the planet and to its people but also to tackle a kind of strenuous metaphysical boot camp, if you will, in which your preincarnative desire is that you shall effect, within the athanor of incarnation, a more equitable and just integration of the energies of love and the energies of light or wisdom.


    The underlined portion becomes more relevant further down.

    and,

    Quote:We would say to those whose profile matches this distortion that it is time to become willing to be grounded in humility.


    Then, about opening the heart:

    Quote:In orienting you and those like you to the actual situation, we would ask each to move back in perspective until there is a broadness that takes in all of the third-density pattern. A pattern involves a choice of how to be and how to serve. In third density, the path to graduation involves a simple choice followed by a series of congruent choices which progressively tune the spirit under such discipline to the point where that spirit is able to surrender to love.

    The difficulty is in releasing all of the intelligence and knowledge that is so proudly carried and so skillfully used in the outer manifestations of life on planet Earth.

    In order to dig down into the treasure of self, you must break the container that holds all of that pride or arrogance of accomplishment. When you have released this structure, you will find that you are as vulnerable as a tiny kitten, such as the one that is snuggled up against this instrument’s ankle at this moment. Only when you have become as a tiny child, free of the burden of your wisdom, can you at last break the bunker of self-consciousness.


    Regarding technique:

    Quote:The response to one who has at last been able to lay aside pride, break the pottery of intellect, and offer the naked soul, as it is, to the one Creator in all humility, is embrace, inclusion, comfort and support. Indeed, these are the responses of your guidance system and those spiritual forces which surround you regardless of your circumstances.

    However, to one who has indeed cast aside arrogance, the voice of spirit becomes quite audible and there is a liveness of interchange that is not possible while the egoic structure of the personality shell retains its knowledge of its self-sufficiency.


    We speak as if there is a “we” and a “they,” a “you” and an “I.” And this is not precisely correct. For there is an ever-flowing movement of energy along lines of force which are created by your thoughts and feelings rather than there being a dynamic of two.


    You are experiencing ways of structuring the self so that it may be known to the self. We do not wish to take away every structure of your thoughts in an instant. Rather, we would that you would conceive of this journey as a dance. It is a dance in which your movements express a gradual increase in your ability to be naked and without personality.

    In the privacy and the intimacy of your silent meditation, allow all to fall away as it will and sit with that which is left until it, too, falls away. And then sit with that which is left until it, too, falls away. Repeat this process until when you sit, you simply sit.



    Finally:

    Quote:J: I find in myself a strong affinity for higher-density planes of both polarities and information about them. This and other things have led me to believe that I have wandered through higher-density planes, both positive and negative, and then chosen to hop back into the maelstrom of third density. Could you please verify this and discuss the phenomenon of individuals exploring both polarities into higher densities? Could this be merely a grand way of deferring true polarization?

    We are those known to you as the principle of Q’uo, and are aware of your query, my brother. We tread close to the limits of free will as we respond to this question. In our opinion—and we offer it for what it is worth—the pattern which you describe is that of a sixth-density wanderer whose fifth-density experiences were felt by the sixth-density entity to have too marked an effect upon the basic ground of being which is represented by the pallid word “love” and by the activity of the student of fourth density in realizing fully …
    (Side one of tape ends.)

    (Carla channeling)

    … the depths of that ground of being. The Thought that created all that there is was not a thought of wisdom. It was pure, unconditional, love. Consciousness is a Thought which creates and destroys the universe. That consciousness is a consciousness of love.

    It is difficult to bring into focus within third density the function of wisdom. Perhaps the most skillful thing we could offer at this juncture is that which has been noted by all, we feel sure, and that is the difference between the thinking of the intellect and the thinking of the heart. Each entity knows people who seem to think with their hearts. Whether their intellects are great or modest, the solutions to the catalyst within their lives seem to involve the creative aspects of love.

    Practices which aid an entity in becoming more aware of his own heart are those practices which are very momentary. It is difficult to discipline the self to use the present moment. But it is in the present moment that you may practice opening the heart....


    So, there never was a confirmation of J's intimations of 4D- & 5D- experiences, just of being significantly bent towards wisdom, as compared to love.  I wish to believe, however, that whatever the course of study over that time period, by putting self in this distorted position where it now needs to balance self by more deeply embracing love than it may have otherwise needed to do, that it is more on track (maybe a long track) to unify that point of experience mentioned above in the first quote from this session by more passionately and more wholly surrendering to love and thereby offering the naked soul to the Creator.  By experiencing life in some way similar to those Bonpo dudes in my previous post on this thread--and then integrating the acceptance self in that context--one surely experiences phenomena with more dimensionality.  That is, one experiences that "ever-flowing movement of energy along lines of force which are created by your thoughts and feelings rather than there being a dynamic of two" in a fuller and perhaps more finely articulated manner because one has become more intimate with those possibilities of experience.
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      • flofrog, kristina, loostudent, EvolvingPhoenix
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    #17
    06-26-2019, 01:51 AM
     
    I don't know that this will make sense to anyone else in the context of this thread, but here is another example of using STS power and balancing the consequences.  My point is that STS energies, utilized by a somewhat high level practitioner, can be a useful means of exploring and broadening consciousness. 

    One may note that in this case and the others cited, the overarching purpose was STO and the main purpose was not self indulgence.  The nature of the specific experience, however, seems to me to be something contrasting with STO.  But in a world such as this where the bad often slaughters the good, is this such an untoward thing?  Those who would purely say, "yes," to that--and happen to reside in volatile areas--often perish along the way.  Others are left responding with defensive means and having to sort out their mixed loyalties.

    Simhamukha according to the Sakyapa Tradition Wrote:But the revelation of the root mantra for Simhamukha is especially associated with the name of Bari Lotawa who came from the region of Dringtsam and it is said he was born in the same year as Milarepa (1040). Traveling to Nepal and India, he studied Sanskrit, translating many texts including a collection of sadhanas and a collection of magical rituals. While in Nepal, he debated with a Hindu teacher named Bhavyaraja, and when he defeated the later, the sorcerer launched a magical attack against the translator. In terror, he fled to Bodh Gaya in India, where his own spiritual master Vajrasanapa advised him to propitiate the Dakinis with puja offerings and pray for their help. In a dream, Simhamukha appeared to him and instructed him to go to a large rock to the east of Bodh Gaya and dig below the rock where he would find a hidden casket. He followed her instructions precisely and discovered the casket as described. Inside, written in blood on human skin, was the fierce mantra of fourteen letters that averts all magical attacks (sngags drag zlog yi-ge bcu-bzhi-pa). That night he performed an averting rite (zlog-pa byas-pa) and employing the mantra, he succeeded in hurling all the negative energy assaulting him back at its source in Nepal. The rebound was so strong that it killed the sorcerer. For the next year, Bari did penance and purification practices at the stupa in Bodh Gaya in order to cleanse the sin of his act.

       
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      • flofrog, kristina
    flofrog (Offline)

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    #18
    06-26-2019, 03:14 AM (This post was last modified: 06-26-2019, 03:48 AM by flofrog.)
    (06-25-2019, 10:33 PM)peregrine Wrote:    
    That is, one experiences that "ever-flowing movement of energy along lines of force which are created by your thoughts and feelings rather than there being a dynamic of two" in a fuller and perhaps more finely articulated manner because one has become more intimate with those possibilities of experience.

    Small question, peregrine. Wink

    Would the above realties to this NIsargadatta quote ( sorry I am studying some of his right now)

    Quote:“Wisdom tells me I am nothing. Love tells me I am everything. And between the two my life flows.”
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      • kristina
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    #19
    06-26-2019, 01:15 PM
    (06-26-2019, 03:14 AM)flofrog Wrote:
    (06-25-2019, 10:33 PM)peregrine Wrote:    
    That is, one experiences that "ever-flowing movement of energy along lines of force which are created by your thoughts and feelings rather than there being a dynamic of two" in a fuller and perhaps more finely articulated manner because one has become more intimate with those possibilities of experience.

    Small question, peregrine.  Wink

    Would the above realties to this NIsargadatta quote  ( sorry I am studying some of his right now)



    Quote:“Wisdom tells me I am nothing. Love tells me I am everything. And between the two my life flows.”  


    I suppose one could attempt to reconcile these two different perspectives. 

    If one views Wisdom as the plenum and Love as manifest action/creation, then one could experience this microcosmically as a single point of consciousness which holds potential as Wisdom while proceeding in time and having existence in space as Love, the details unfolding as your "life."

    Others might say, though, that the plenum is also Love, not Wisdom.  Wisdom merely provides dimensionality and is not an actual thing of itself.  Rather, it explicates Love.

    Otherwise I would note that one view emphasizes a Love/Wisdom dichotomy while the other is what I might think of as a 6D perspective which moves past that into an wholly self-referential perspective ("self" being as much of the All as can be held).
     
     
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      • flofrog, Relax
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    #20
    06-26-2019, 04:14 PM
    From what Ra seems to say, over and over, love is the essence of everything so perhaps in viewing the process we could say Love, although pure in its essence and impossible to fragment and change, for the unique purpose of evolving is at some levels, like fifth density tempered by wisdom ?

    I just thought Nisargadatta might have shown the process of evolution not the end mystery.

    To get back to the thread, and apologies, for anyone who reads the above posts it is clearly evident it is not simple to change course when you followed, even slightly, a bias originally towards STS.
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      • Patrick
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    #21
    06-26-2019, 06:39 PM
    I've spent some time reading many entries in TLOO containing the words "bias" or biases". The conclusion I have arrived to is that biases are developed incarnation after incarnation and transferred to the spirit. These biases then affect in great ways future incarnations, determining what interests a person will have, for example, or what kind of genetics are chosen for said incarnation. There are several quotes to support this conclusion. This is the most relevant one for our purposes:

    Quote:97.16 Questioner: I was wondering why the dark entity was on the right side of the card as far as the male figure, which is the Significator, is concerned, and the light white entity is on the left. (...)

    Ra: (...) The nature of polarity is interesting in that those experiences offered to the Significator as positive frequently become recorded as productive of biases which may be seen to be negative, whereas the fruit of those experiences apparently negative is frequently found to be helpful in the development of the service-to-others bias. As this is perhaps the guiding characteristic of that which the mind processes and records, these symbols of polarity have thusly been placed.

    Biases are "produced". STO is a "bias" that is "developed".

    This one also shows that polarization is a matter of building up bias:

    Quote:61.7 ▶ Questioner: Second question: could you give an example of how feelings affect portions of the body and the sensations of the body?

    Ra: I am Ra. It is nearly impossible to speak generally of these mechanisms, for each entity of proper seniority has its own programming. Of the less aware entities we may say that the connection will often seem random as the higher self continues producing catalyst until a bias occurs.

    The reason why Ra says, in their picnic analogy, that some 3d entities are biased either towards STS or STO is because even a newly arrived 3d entity has had, potentially, millions and millions of years worth of biases being accumulated over the 2d experience. We know from pets that each cat, for example, has its own personality. That personality is in part the result of many incarnations building up bias after bias.

    You mentioned the biases of wanderers, unity100. It's the exact same situation. Wanderers have millions of years of experience in higher densities. They have developed an enormous bias towards their chosen polarity throughout such vast experience. When a wanderer comes here and recoils in pain at the disharmony on Earth, it's not because of an eternal and unchangeable aspect of that soul, but because the wanderer remembers at the subconscious level what it is like to live in societies of complete harmony, cooperation and compassion. This is why wanderers are so useful in increasing the vibrations of Earth. Like you said, the mind and the body are brand new. But subconsciously (through spirit), the entity remembers; it remembers not so much an inherent part of its soul, but rather, the biases that it has built over the entirety of its soul stream.

    unity100, at some portions of your post you seem to agree with this general idea. But then you say that the bias of the spirit can't ever realy be changed. So, I'm confused as to what your interpretation is, exactly.

    I'm trying to understand this statement of yours:

    Quote:Spiritual bias is the defining factor which separates wanderers from the 3d entities on a given planet. Mind changes, body changes. But the spiritual complex and its bias defines the entity.

    You seem to be saying that all souls that are inherently similar start the octave together in the same planet. Did I get that right? If so, that is an interpretation that I don't think is supported in the material at all.

    Going back to Carla, like I said before, the reason why it would have been so painful for her to be displaced into negative time/space is for the same reason I said above: Her soul stream has literal millions of years of building STO biases. Your quote from Ra:

    Quote:Let us say that the positively polarized individual makes a poor student of the love of self and thus spends much more time, if you will, than those native to that pattern of vibrations.

    The bolded is key. Emphasis is not put on something of an inherent nature. Carla was already STO polarized. If she had chosen STS in her first 3d experiences and had slowly and progressively built STS biases into her soul stream, then she would not have had any more trouble completing the octave in STS than the average STS entity. The displacement situation is completely extraordinary in nature, and it's not a solid ground upon which to base an argument. The entity at no point in time chooses STS; it's straight up displaced through the means of deception.

    I can't stress enough that 3d is the density of The Choice. There is no choice to make if souls are already preprogrammed to go one way or the other.

    Quote:...what you are proposing is that the positive entities can 'just' stop enjoying the positive aspects of creation, and negative entities can just stop enjoying the negative aspects of the creation.

    There's more nuance than that. We're talking about 3d entities that have never been harvested. Their biases are still not too strong. Furthermore, if you have a bad habit that, although enjoyable, is harmful to yourself or to others, you can resort to your free will and make the strong commitment of leaving such a habit behind. Your brain has been wired to associate pleasure to such an activity and to seek it, but if you make this commitment and go through with it, those connections will become weaker and weaker. You may look at other more healthy activities, and if you find something that you like in them, your brain will rewire itself around these activities. I consider the analogy quite apt, as STS is a path that brings great pain in 3d, as evidenced here:

    Quote:94.12 ▶ Questioner: It seems to me that the Experience of the Mind would act in such a way as to change the nature of the veil so that catalyst would be filtered so as to be more acceptable in the bias that is increasingly chosen by the entity. For instance, if the entity had chosen the right-hand path the Experience of the Mind would change the permeability of the veil to accept more and more positive catalyst, and also the other would be true for accepting more negative if the left-hand path were the one that was repeatedly chosen. Is this correct?

    Ra: I am Ra. This is not only correct but there is a further ramification. As the entity increases in experience it shall, more and more, choose positive interpretations of catalyst if it is upon the service-to-others path and negative interpretations of catalyst if its experience has been along the service-to-self path.

    Another quote on the importance of free will:

    Quote:99.10 ▶ (...) In many second-density creatures seem to have some sort of imprinting that creates a lifetime mating relationship and I was wondering if this was designed by the Logos for that particular mechanism and if it was also carried into third density?

    Ra: I am Ra. There are some of your second-density fauna which have instinctually imprinted monogamous mating processes. The third-density physical vehicle which is the basic incarnational tool of manifestation upon your planet arose from entities thusly imprinted, all the aforesaid being designed by the Logos.

    The free will of third-density entities is far stronger than the rather mild carryover from second-density DNA encoding and it is not part of the conscious nature of many of your mind/body/spirit complexes to be monogamous due to the exercise of free will. However, as has been noted there are many signposts in the deep mind indicating to the alert adept the more efficient use of catalyst. As we have said, the Logos of your peoples has a bias towards kindness.

    Moving on to other points...

    Quote:Their numbers are perhaps one-tenth ours at any point in the space/time continuum

    Quote:So, your proposition of negatively polarized entities 'just' overriding their inner spiritual bias with positive will just cause other entities doing the opposite to keep the balance of polarities in the creation.

    While a possibility, your interpretation of that quote carries big assumptions that are not reflected in the material in any way.

    Quote:We define mental instability broadly as behavior sets which do not allow an individual to reasonably function and survive within a social context. In the more extreme cases, we define them as behaviors which may harm the individual or make the individual dysfunctional even without any interaction with any other being. Like in self-harming behaviors.

    Definitions like this were once used to justify homosexuality being labeled as a mental disorder (and more recently, transexuality). I would advice against using it too eagerly to explain behavior that is only incomprehensible from the outside.

    (I'll try to reply to the other replies in the thread tomorrow, as it's gotten rather late for me)
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      • Patrick
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    #22
    06-26-2019, 07:52 PM
     
    I'm not quite sure what or why R & U are arguing about bias.  I just want to interject that, for a returning wanderer, there is a concern for balancing, accepting and eliminating bias.  This is work--which a 6D entity may offer to the Creator--which is potentially accelerated by wandering in 3D.

    Drawing from the same Q'uo session above:

    Quote:J: Now that the era of service-to-self activity on this planet is coming to an end, are there scholars in the inner planes who are tallying up the lessons learned? What do we do better understand now about the lure and the explication of violence and selfishness? From observing such difficult passage of a planet to fourth density, how can we better understand the properties of the service-to-self vortex as it reflects to us a distorted image of unending love?

    We are those of Q’uo and are aware of your query, my brother. We thank you for the subtlety and the beauty of this question and, indeed, for the great thought that you have put into all the questions for the session.

    We truly have no words to offer but only the humility of silence to those who would seek to know the one infinite Creator. When such hopes and desires are expressed, it is time to move to the bare beginnings and to take up with joy a condition of infanthood, and then to surround that beloved, precious, infant spirit self with the greatest of faith that you as an entity may find within your self.

    For it is faith alone that cleanses the intellect, that simplifies the abstruse, that brings the flight of fancy back to the most simple and profound truth of the one Creator.

    Who is counting the beans, my brother? You are. This instrument is. Each entity does it for the self. And as the self acknowledges, accepts and admires with great affection the self, the Creator harvests all of that complexity and strains it into self-awareness that is without bias*.

    That which you seek, my brother, is closer than your breathing. Remove the stumbling block of self, with a small “s” and, as you are able to peel away layers of maya, consciousness shall emerge and you shall become transparent to eternity.


    *In the transcribed text, this word is printed as "vice," but this is a misprint, as is quite clear from the recording.  The word Carla actually spoke was "bias."


      

       
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      • kristina, Aaron, flofrog, Patrick
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    #23
    06-26-2019, 08:05 PM
    I think there is a strong attempt at intellectualizing The Law of One and you cannot get to there from here so to speak.
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      • flofrog
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    #24
    06-27-2019, 12:37 AM (This post was last modified: 06-27-2019, 12:46 AM by AnthroHeart.)
    I'm working on being able to smell anthros in their dimension, I guess without their knowing.
    Is that an invasion of privacy and STS?

    I don't think it would affect my desire, because it's like the most important thing to me.
    It makes me feel like I am one of them.

    But it might very well be STS.

    What if you knew someone could psychically smell you? Would that be an invasion of your privacy?

    What if they smelled cancer or something else in you?

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    flofrog (Offline)

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    #25
    06-27-2019, 01:15 AM
    Gem, why not ask permission. As I think this is important to you. Nothing puts us at rest as respecting space of others.. Wink
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      • AnthroHeart, Patrick, kristina
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    #26
    06-27-2019, 01:59 AM (This post was last modified: 06-27-2019, 02:00 AM by AnthroHeart.)
    (06-27-2019, 01:15 AM)flofrog Wrote: Gem,  why not ask permission. As I think this is important to you.  Nothing puts us at rest as respecting space of others..  Wink

    I've never gotten shut down by them. It's like they don't really care either way.
    But I will start asking energetically since I can't ask them directly.
    Maybe if I detect something in them, I can give them a mental nudge to check it out.
    It takes 10,000 hours of work to become an expert in something.
    I am hoping to help people with this, and was worried I was becoming STS because of developing abilty to smell others.
    I know along the way I will have temptations to abuse my power. I really hope I don't struggle with it.
    But they say find your passion, and this is it.
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      • flofrog
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    #27
    06-27-2019, 09:11 AM (This post was last modified: 06-27-2019, 09:16 AM by Ray711.)
    (06-26-2019, 07:52 PM)peregrine Wrote: I'm not quite sure what or why R & U are arguing about bias.  I just want to interject that, for a returning wanderer, there is a concern for balancing, accepting and eliminating bias.  This is work--which a 6D entity may offer to the Creator--which is potentially accelerated by wandering in 3D.

    I find this to be true in regards to taming wisdom by embracing love more fully, as 3d revolves around the lessons of love. But I'm not sure it applies to other kinds of balancing. Finding complete and absolute balance in every area seems like high density work that is beyond what we can aspire to, here in 3d. You said accepting the bias, which I agree with, but the "eliminating" bit sounds like the kind of "overcoming the ego" that Ra warned against (18.5):

    https://www.lawofone.info/results.php?s=18#5

    Quote:And as the self acknowledges, accepts and admires with great affection the self, the Creator harvests all of that complexity and strains it into self-awareness that is without bias*.

    Isn't that referring to the Creator Him/Her/Itself being the one without bias?

    (06-25-2019, 04:35 PM)kristina Wrote: What is psychosis?
    It’s when something affects how your brain understands the world around you. It’s sometimes called a psychotic episode.
    Psychosis can make it hard to think or speak in a way that makes sense to others. It can make you see, hear, or feel things that aren’t there (a hallucination).
    It may involve delusions, meaning you believe something that’s not true even when the facts all point the other way. For example, you might be convinced that someone is trying to hurt you or that someone else is controlling your thoughts.

    Can't speak about delusions, but the hallucinations themselves are believed by some people to be an indication of having penetrated a part of the veil. They might be thought forms from the astral realm, or the embodiment of the influence of both positive and negative higher density beings. I can't remember who it was who posted it, but once I stumbled upon a website posted here at bring4th, based on the works of Swedenborg, and written by someone who, himself, had observed the hallucination phenomenom from a metaphysical standpoint. They arrived to the conclusion that there were negative and positive hallucinations. The interesting thing is that these were described in very similar terms to what we ourselves understand as STS and STO entities. The positive hallucinations would even go as far as saying that the negative hallucinations existed in order to bring into consciousness the weaknesses of the individual. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Smile

    Regarding the hypothetical scenario that you suggested, peregrine, that's an interesting proposition. I don't have many thoughts on the subject, only that STO is labeled itself as a distortion, despite of containing "more truth" than STS, so I think there's weight to what you are saying. Ra certainly seems very knowledgeable on the nature of STS entities. Whether that is because of the two wanderers who polarized negatively on Venus, because 6th density dwellers are outside of the time of 4th and 5th density entities, or because of entirely different reasons, we can only guess.

    Thank you for providing that Q'uo session, by the way. That was a very interesting read.

    (06-26-2019, 01:51 AM)peregrine Wrote: My point is that STS energies, utilized by a somewhat high level practitioner, can be a useful means of exploring and broadening consciousness.

    Q'uo talks about this from the standpoint that STO entities can't have grit, determination and strength in their choice unless they learn to embrace and love their shadow, or their STS side, because it's that what provides said attributes, they say.

    (06-26-2019, 01:51 AM)peregrine Wrote: But in a world such as this where the bad often slaughters the good, is this such an untoward thing?  Those who would purely say, "yes," to that--and happen to reside in volatile areas--often perish along the way.  Others are left responding with defensive means and having to sort out their mixed loyalties.

    I see your point, but I'm personally wary of believing that all individuals, even those of a high degree of purity, are just victims of their circumstances, because that's precisely what the Orion group hopes would start us onto the STS path. It makes me wonder... Okay, so we know that maintaining the illusion of the veil is paramount in 3d. What if some souls, regardless of polarity, purposefully program a death that seems meaningless and random, precisely for the purpose of maintaining reasonable doubt that life at its core is chaotic, random and unpredictable? Recently I heard about the news of a monk being devoured by a tiger in a jungle while he was meditating. This triggered in me fear because it appealed to the rational mind, who only sees the chaos, the randomness and the unpredictability of life. But what if this death, like potentially many others, was actually programmed precisely for the purpose of keeping up appearances in the illusion?

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    unity100 (Offline)

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    #28
    06-27-2019, 10:14 AM
    (06-26-2019, 06:39 PM)Ray711 Wrote: I've spent some time reading many entries in TLOO containing the words "bias" or biases". The conclusion I have arrived to is that biases are developed incarnation after incarnation and transferred to the spirit. These biases then affect in great ways future incarnations, determining what interests a person will have, for example, or what kind of genetics are chosen for said incarnation. There are several quotes to support this conclusion. This is the most relevant one for our purposes:

    Biases are "produced". STO is a "bias" that is "developed".

    That's the problem there - you treat the bias as an artificial construct which is 'just' manufactured and appended to the entity.

    You fail to see that the entire point of the physical illusion is to create the conditions to allow that particular spark of creator - which is the spirit - to be able to create and manifest itself as it is - which it does through the bias it develops.

    It is not an artificial or additional thing - it is the indicator of that spirit. You cannot just 'manufacture' a different bias and append it to that spirit.

    If you do, that facet of the creator represented by that spirit will not manifest itself in that particular spirit which now has an imposed bias...

    It will just manifest itself through another spirit.

    Hence the reason for the light not blinking to either side and the polarities always balancing themselves out...

    Quote:unity100, at some portions of your post you seem to agree with this general idea. But then you say that the bias of the spirit can't ever realy be changed. So, I'm confused as to what your interpretation is, exactly.

    There is nothing to get confused about. The simple principle i am describing can be read from the above block. It simply says: You cannot just manufacture/force biases. Its not artificial.

    Quote:You seem to be saying that all souls that are inherently similar start the octave together in the same planet. Did I get that right? If so, that is an interpretation that I don't think is supported in the material at all.

    I didnt say that but it is actually pretty correct - material tells that not only logoi which are closer to each other tend to create similar experiential creations, but also the octaves act similarly - those who come out through a logos, go back to infinity in the backward order they came to this existence. However thats a different topic.

    Quote:Another quote on the importance of free will:

    You still miss what free will really means: It is this octave's veiling mechanic that allows entities to be able to choose negative paths. As opposed to everyone having had to choose positive path before the veil.

    The free will is there to enable the exact opposite of the thing which you argue that everyone should do.

    .........

    I believe we discussed this enough. There is no point to repeating arguments.

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    #29
    06-27-2019, 10:43 AM
    (06-27-2019, 09:11 AM)Ray711 Wrote:
    (06-26-2019, 07:52 PM)peregrine Wrote: I'm not quite sure what or why R & U are arguing about bias.  I just want to interject that, for a returning wanderer, there is a concern for balancing, accepting and eliminating bias.  This is work--which a 6D entity may offer to the Creator--which is potentially accelerated by wandering in 3D.

    I find this to be true in regards to taming wisdom by embracing love more fully, as 3d revolves around the lessons of love. But I'm not sure it applies to other kinds of balancing. Finding complete and absolute balance in every area seems like high density work that is beyond what we can aspire to, here in 3d. You said accepting the bias, which I agree with, but the "eliminating" bit sounds like the kind of "overcoming the ego" that Ra warned against (18.5):

    https://www.lawofone.info/results.php?s=18#5





    Quote:And as the self acknowledges, accepts and admires with great affection the self, the Creator harvests all of that complexity and strains it into self-awareness that is without bias*.

    Isn't that referring to the Creator Him/Her/Itself being the one without bias?


    Quote:18.5 ▶ Questioner: Thank you. I have a question here from Jim that I will read verbatim: “Much of the mystic tradition of seeking on Earth holds that belief that the individual self must be erased or obliterated and the material world ignored for an entity to reach ‘nirvana,’ as it’s called, or enlightenment. What is the proper role of the individual self and its worldly activities in aiding an entity to grow more into the Law of One?”

    Ra: I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.

    The orientation develops due to analysis of desire. These desires become more and more distorted towards conscious application of love/light as the entity furnishes itself with distilled experience. We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires, except to suggest the imagination rather than the carrying out in the physical plane, as you call it, of those desires not consonant with the Law of One; this preserving the primal distortion of free will.

    The reason it is unwise to overcome is that overcoming is an unbalanced action creating difficulties in balancing in the time/space continuum. Overcoming thus creates the further environment for holding onto that which apparently has been overcome.

    All things are acceptable in the proper time for each entity, and in experiencing, in understanding, in accepting, in then sharing with other-selves, the appropriate description shall be moving away from distortions of one kind to distortions of another which may be more consonant with the Law of One.

    It is, shall we say, a shortcut to simply ignore or overcome any desire. It must instead be understood and accepted. This takes patience and experience which can be analyzed with care, with compassion for self and for other-self.

    One can read 18.5 to emphasize the not-overcoming message; alternatively, one can read the emboldened portion above to clinch the argument that it is self as Creator which distills from one's experience love and light (which one might suppose are ultimately unbiased).  Yes, this is probably not going to bear fruit 100% in any given 3D lifetime, rather, it's a progressive process of becoming more naked to eternity.  Or not, I suppose.

    I realize that you were really looking at the linear progression up through the densities and how the STS option might work into that, and that I'm tossing in a more complex idea regarding the relationship between the 3D learning classroom and 6D balancing of consciousness leading to timelessness.  I hope you don't mind my thickening the plot.  I just find this element of more compelling interest.

      
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      • flofrog, kristina
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    #30
    06-27-2019, 10:56 AM
    (06-27-2019, 09:11 AM)Ray711 Wrote: I see your point, but I'm personally wary of believing that all individuals, even those of a high degree of purity, are just victims of their circumstances, because that's precisely what the Orion group hopes would start us onto the STS path. It makes me wonder... Okay, so we know that maintaining the illusion of the veil is paramount in 3d. What if some souls, regardless of polarity, purposefully program a death that seems meaningless and random, precisely for the purpose of maintaining reasonable doubt that life at its core is chaotic, random and unpredictable? Recently I heard about the news of a monk being devoured by a tiger in a jungle while he was meditating. This triggered in me fear because it appealed to the rational mind, who only sees the chaos, the randomness and the unpredictability of life. But what if this death, like potentially many others, was actually programmed precisely for the purpose of keeping up appearances in the illusion?

    Beginning 900 or so years ago, tens of thousands of Buddhist monks were systematically slaughtered across what was then Northern India by various Muslim conquistadores.  If one monk succumbing affects you this way, imagine what shock people must have felt when it happened on a scale that large.  One could say that it makes for some pretty good catalyst, eh?  It provides a vast opportunity for balancing emotion and, as you point out, reviewing one's relationship with the Grand Illusion, as well as with self as mainly a constructed, composite thing.

      
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      • kristina
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