Harvest: Do The Math

[SomaticDreams]

...I have a slightly unique view on 3D/4D bodies in that I feel the difference between 3D and 4D is not so much a physical existence or incarnation, but instead the way in which we perceive and integrate into the world. This is why they are uniquely incompatible; you cannot be ignorant when you know better. In this way, the yellow ray is that of confusion and duality (ignorance) while the green ray is that of love and understanding (knowing better). The 3D body must 'die' once we ascend to 4D, but does that mean that the 1D and 2D bodies also die? What if our bodies are left for a short time (a la Jesus) and then transformed when we re-enter them as 4D entities to start our work on the new 4D planet? I have a whole thread on it somewhere, but the main point for me is that the death of the 3D body doesn't necessarily mean the death of our bodies, but instead the death of our minds as we know them. The confusion will leave, and frankly, we have no idea what that will feel like

I am an avid listener to the channelings of the entity known as "Bashar", and this is very similar in the way he presents the harvest. Spiritual growth is not how the world appears to be, but how you react to it, and how you transform it into a positive, enlightening experience. I agree wholeheartedly with this, as this is how I see progress in my life. There are many tests that appear, to test my patience, my love, my forgivingness, my joy etc. It gives me more reason to keep practicing meditation and reading- the food for my soul is infinitely abound in 3D. Thank you for sharing kindly. Your words resonated with me very strongly.

[3DMonkey]

I have a slightly unique view on 3D/4D bodies in that I feel the difference between 3D and 4D is not so much a physical existence or incarnation, but instead the way in which we perceive and integrate into the world. This is why they are uniquely incompatible; you cannot be ignorant when you know better. In this way, the yellow ray is that of confusion and duality (ignorance) while the green ray is that of love and understanding (knowing better). The 3D body must 'die' once we ascend to 4D, but does that mean that the 1D and 2D bodies also die? What if our bodies are left for a short time (a la Jesus) and then transformed when we re-enter them as 4D entities to start our work on the new 4D planet? I have a whole thread on it somewhere, but the main point for me is that the death of the 3D body doesn't necessarily mean the death of our bodies, but instead the death of our minds as we know them. The confusion will leave, and frankly, we have no idea what that will feel like

It is an interesting thought. The act of channeling is really a metaphor for the whole process. The more purified the channel is, combined with genuine seeking, the less distorted the information. I would imagine the effectiveness of intuition is very much linked to desire and will. Seek and you will find, right? So if we're not honest and open to being critical, where does that lead you? You will only find what you're looking for. When we seek with an open heart and a discerning mind, our intuition will most certainly lead us where we need to go.

Ra's explanation 67.28 "Teaching is done via the intuition. With the proper seeking or mind configuration, the power of will uses the spirit as a shuttle to contact the appropriate archetypical aspect necessary for the teach/learning. In the same way each of the other informers of intuition are contacted. They are hierarchical and proceed from the entity’s own subconscious mind to group or planetary mind, to guides, to Higher Self, to archetypical mind, to cosmic mind or intelligent infinity. Each is contacted by the spirit serving as shuttle according to the harmonized electromagnetic configuration of the seeker’s mind and the information sought."

40.3 Questioner: Thank you. I was also wondering if the first-density corresponded somehow to the color red, the second to the color orange, the third to the color yellow and so on through the densities corresponding to the colors in perhaps a way so that the basic vibration which forms the photon that forms the core of all atomic particles would have a relationship to the color in the density and that that vibration would step up for second, third, and fourth-density corresponding to the increase in the vibration of the colors. Is any of this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is more correct than you have stated. Firstly, you are correct in positing a quantum, if you will, as the nature of each density and further correct in assuming that these quanta may be seen to be of vibratory natures corresponding to color as you grasp this word. However, it is also true, as you have suspected but not asked, that each density is of the metaphysical characteristic complex of its ray. Thus in first-density the red ray is the foundation for all that is to come. In second density the orange ray is that of movement and growth of the individual, this ray striving towards the yellow ray of self-conscious manifestations of a social nature as well as individual; third-density being the equivalent, and so forth, each density being primarily its ray plus the attractions of the following ray pulling it forward in evolution and to some extent coloring or shading the chief color of that density.

39.10 .....This is the first true spiritual ray in that all transfers are of an integrated mind/body/spirit nature. The blue ray seats the learnings/teachings of the spirit in each density within the mind/body complex animating the whole, communicating to others this entirety of being-ness.....

[hogey11]

Ah monkey... you and your puzzles

i'm not gonna lie, i've been way too unplugged to figure it out, but i'll heartily agree as you and I usually do

[3DMonkey]

I thought they were good points to make that would support your "I feel the difference between 3D and 4D is not so much a physical existence or incarnation, but instead the way in which we perceive and integrate into the world."

[Raman]

You are being way too deterministic. Both are correct.

By that, I mean that your idea of harvest embodying a single moment in space is true. There will be a watershed moment where there will be a great release and those ready will ascend. I think you are bang on in that way.

However, you are completely glossing over many things that are explicitly stated by Ra. First, that there are such things as transitional bodies and also a transitional time of 100-700 years while the yellow sphere/ray fades into potentiation. Transitional bodies are clearly stated as 3d entities that will be able to withstand the new 4D vibrations post-harvest. We also know that once the green sphere reaches full activation, the earth will enter a transitional period in which the yellow sphere and ray will fade out over 100-700 years. For myself, this is the window for acceptance of the 4D earth on a globally unified level. When everyone is finally on the same 'team' (ie: there is only ONE choice - STO), the yellow sphere is gone and the Green has full reign. Q'uo and Ra both states 4D worlds as being ones of unity rather than duality, so post-harvest I think we can expect different communities to spring up. There will be unity centers like the ones described earlier in Spain, where all are taken care of and all are in service to others. I would also imagine those who cannot accept this way of life (pure 3Ds) to start their own small communities as well. If you think this would lead to chaos and war, remember that we're now talking of a 4D world. Any needs of the pure 3D entities would be met happily by the transitional/4D beings as an opportunity to serve. In this way, I would expect the pure 3Ds to live a very confused life post-harvest, but I think the question is more do we wait for them to all die out, or do we wait for them to accept and ascend?

Second, there is the whole population numbers issue. Ra was clear that at the time of Carla's channeling, Earth's graduation to a 4D positive planet was still in the balance. The amount of harvestables was extremely low, but Ra was very clear to say that anything could happen as harvest approaches. 'One fine, strong moment' could happen and turn the tides at any moment. Back in 1980, the world's population was around 3.5 Billion people. Here's the thing about population growth: it's not linear. In the last 30 years, we have doubled the entire population one time over; this is unprecedented growth. The interesting thing is that both Ra and Q'uo admit that the influx of high-seniority entities and powerful wanderers was going to intensify as we approached the harvest date. So, lets look at this from above: we have Ra and Q'uo saying that the most positive souls in our planets history will be the ones to be born as we approach harvest, as this is a major milestone/event in each soul's evolution and being present is important for us. Additionally, they also say that the influx of help from wanderers from higher densities would only get more numerous as well, as each provides a huge amount of energy to add to the pull towards 4D positive. Now take into consideration that we've borne 3.5 Billion people in the last 30 years, right after Ra tells us these things. There is a reason the revolutions that are starting around the world are being led by the youth. They are the great souls who have come for harvest, and they will remake this world once they are given the power to, imo...

Finally, the need for population control is ridiculous and one of the darkest things you could ever put your support into. Population control is nothing more than genocide. The world's population as it is is no longer the problem they were claiming a few years back. Due to the rising industries found in China, India, and Brazil (as well as other 3rd world countries), women are being given the option to work and start a career rather than purely being baby-ovens for their whole lives. This is happening enough around the world that the future population levels actually seem pretty modest moving forward. The idea that we need to get rid of a bunch of people to make more room is a pure STS notion coming straight from the illuminati and those who run the world. By saying this, you are basically saying that the coal industry, oil rigs, and lithium mines are more important than people's lives. IMO, that is wrong.

I have a slightly unique view on 3D/4D bodies in that I feel the difference between 3D and 4D is not so much a physical existence or incarnation, but instead the way in which we perceive and integrate into the world. This is why they are uniquely incompatible; you cannot be ignorant when you know better. In this way, the yellow ray is that of confusion and duality (ignorance) while the green ray is that of love and understanding (knowing better). The 3D body must 'die' once we ascend to 4D, but does that mean that the 1D and 2D bodies also die? What if our bodies are left for a short time (a la Jesus) and then transformed when we re-enter them as 4D entities to start our work on the new 4D planet? I have a whole thread on it somewhere, but the main point for me is that the death of the 3D body doesn't necessarily mean the death of our bodies, but instead the death of our minds as we know them. The confusion will leave, and frankly, we have no idea what that will feel like

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Population control? I am just saying Ra stated when Harvest occurs 3d density bodies AND thoughts AND feelings AND artifacts will cease to exist:

63.32 Questioner: When the third-density goes out of activation and into potentiation that will leave us with a planet that is first, second, and fourth-density. At that time there will be no activated third-density vibrations on this planet. Am I correct in assuming that all third-density vibrations on this planet now are those vibrations that compose the bodily complexes of entities such as we are; that that is the sum total of third-density vibrations on this planet at this time?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full query of this working. This instrument has energy left due to transfer but there is discomfort. We do not wish to deplete this instrument. May we say that this instrument seems in better configuration despite attack than previous workings.

To answer your query, this is incorrect only in that in addition to the mind/body/spirit complexes of third-density there are the artifacts, thought-forms, and feelings which these co-Creators have produced. This is third-density.

May we answer any brief queries as we leave this instrument?

If this is 'population control' to you, so be it.

Second, another 6th density group created pyramids, cities, and (to me) the mayan calendar which is about consciousness. And we are just realizing this close to harvest time...(---minus the 'Gregorian factor' per Ra in 'approximately' 2011).

Doom/gloom, yes, not good. However, Mars or Maldek scenario totally possible if something 'different' does not happen. --Talk about doom/gloom....

By the way, do you people realize that eventually you will die? (in the 3d sense?)...

Third, 'doom and gloom' scenarios are indeed possible and they are indeed a stop to evolution. (destruction of the planet). But since 'harvest' is here (in whatever form) soon, 4d earth is possible.

Seems that cycles in 3d are 25,000 years each and a definitive final one after 3 times, because it is a 'safety valve' most of the time, due to the propensities of 3d evolution for destruction if things go awry, etc.

Would I like if at harvest time multicolored candy falls from the sky and we hug each other and start a new world, and sing kumbaya and all computers run gnu/linux? Well yeah...

I think we are too attached to 3d....

[AnthroHeart]

Would I like if at harvest time multicolored candy falls from the sky and we hug each other and start a new world, and sing kumbaya and all computers run gnu/linux? Well yeah...

I think we are too attached to 3d....

Or how about no computers or technology. I could go for that if we could create anything we needed.

[hogey11]

Population control? I am just saying Ra stated when Harvest occurs 3d density bodies AND thoughts AND feelings AND artifacts will cease to exist:

63.32 Questioner: When the third-density goes out of activation and into potentiation that will leave us with a planet that is first, second, and fourth-density. At that time there will be no activated third-density vibrations on this planet. Am I correct in assuming that all third-density vibrations on this planet now are those vibrations that compose the bodily complexes of entities such as we are; that that is the sum total of third-density vibrations on this planet at this time?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full query of this working. This instrument has energy left due to transfer but there is discomfort. We do not wish to deplete this instrument. May we say that this instrument seems in better configuration despite attack than previous workings.

To answer your query, this is incorrect only in that in addition to the mind/body/spirit complexes of third-density there are the artifacts, thought-forms, and feelings which these co-Creators have produced. This is third-density.

May we answer any brief queries as we leave this instrument?

If this is 'population control' to you, so be it.

Second, another 6th density group created pyramids, cities, and (to me) the mayan calendar which is about consciousness. And we are just realizing this close to harvest time...(---minus the 'Gregorian factor' per Ra in 'approximately' 2011).

Doom/gloom, yes, not good. However, Mars or Maldek scenario totally possible if something 'different' does not happen. --Talk about doom/gloom....

By the way, do you people realize that eventually you will die? (in the 3d sense?)...

Third, 'doom and gloom' scenarios are indeed possible and they are indeed a stop to evolution. (destruction of the planet). But since 'harvest' is here (in whatever form) soon, 4d earth is possible.

Seems that cycles in 3d are 25,000 years each and a definitive final one after 3 times, because it is a 'safety valve' most of the time, due to the propensities of 3d evolution for destruction if things go awry, etc.

Would I like if at harvest time multicolored candy falls from the sky and we hug each other and start a new world, and sing kumbaya and all computers run gnu/linux? Well yeah...

I think we are too attached to 3d....

I don't think population control is in the cards at all, nor should it be. As I mentioned, RA mentions nothing of the "death" of the red and orange ray bodies during harvest. They do not necessarily follow the same path as the yellow ray body, as only it is entering potentiation once the green ray establishes itself. RA also states that the 2D body can survive for a short time without a higher density influence, meaning, the 1D/2D body does indeed embody our physical vessel primarily. Our 3D self lies primarily between our ears; the way we perceive the world and apply our own logic to things.

In our shift to 4D, we have happen to us what Ra speaks of in the passage you quoted. 3D and 4D are uniquely incompatible as they embody different ends of a spectrum (3D being the density of confusion and 4D being the density of understanding). Therefore, when we come into 4D, all things 3D will fade away because we will know better. Let me relate this in real-world circumstance: In 4D, our 3D selves will die. By this I mean our insecurities about our looks, our careers, our vices will all go away. The stress that comes with every decision from professional to moral would be squelched as the need to be guarded and measured leaves the earth. Similarly, the constructs and thought-forms would cease to exist. This doesn't mean things will disappear but instead represents a spiritual-technological shift where the world we have built ourselves will no longer hold value to our new reality. Energy companies will be shut down as free energy systems take over. Our roads & highways will just be scars on the landscape as we think ourselves elsewhere instead. From medical facilities to tanning salons, all of the things that we invest into so heavily right now will become useless in our new 4D reality, and in this way, all things 3d will die. (IMO, of course)

I would imagine 3D people who are not willing to make the choice to ascend will instead live out their lives trying to live in the past. Maybe they will shun the new 4D communities, or maybe they will live amongst them and be begrudgingly taken care of by the 4D folks until they die. Before you go off about dying, I want to be clear that yes - I know and accept that I will die one day. I have many times before, and will again many times in the future. That's not the point. As Ra says, the harvest is a 'coming of age' type event in our soul's evolution. IMO, we cannot reject the possibility that something amazing may happen at this time. For me, what would be more amazing than rebuilding the world into Utopia? I almost think it would require the passion from where we've come from (and still are coming from) in order to make it work.



I understand your cynicism as well. Things are definitely up in the air, but there are things to remember as well. Maldek pretty much has no chance of happening according to what Q'uo has been saying for the last few years. We have protection from the majority of those scenarios taking place. At this point, we are all systems go for a 4D positive ascension process. This is something to be excited about!


One other thing I haven't been able to shake from my mind is that we have no idea what 4D birth entails either. We know it only happens once every 90,000 years or so and that we come into being at an advanced stage compared to the 3D incarnation; I think I remember Ra saying more like a teenager instead of an infant. I'll have to track it down, but if Ra did indeed say that, doesn't that make sense even if we were to go to 4D with our current bodies? Learning to wield our 4D bodies and integrate into the 4D world could probably be better characterized as a teenager learning what to do with puberty than an infant learning how to survive. I mean, we made our way through 3D and made a choice, right? I don't think we enter 4D completely useless like we do in 3D.... (this comes from experience as of late )


Maybe I am too rooted into 3D, but believe me, I am ready for 4D in whichever form it comes. I am just not convinced we're gonna see a hard reset of the world. I see the positive side of our world rising up and swallowing the other, and the resulting unity being all that is left. We have this potential; believe it or not.

[Raman]

No, it was not cynism. Sarcasm, maybe. But I meant what I said, that I would rather prefer a peaceful transition. For that to occur, I think the planetary conditions need much more harmony than the current situation.
And as discussed before, this is a great harvest, not a harvest at the end of 25000 years or so. This is interesting, because it implies 4d activation (either if fast /slow cannot be with 6 billion people on board , other wise where is the harvest?). So we will encounter a very DIFFERENT situation. And it seems the gateway to intelligent infinity opens and I do not think it opens for 100-700 years continuously...

Moreover, 4d activation means there is memory (no veil) therefore there will be something like 'disclosure' without inflicting free will. Disclosure must be most probably be with other 4d civilizations since in 4d entities are much 'left alone' from 5d. 6d, art least large portions of its duration. However, since there is memory, 4d is aware of the existence of those, of course.

1D cannot be destroyed unless something like destruction of a planet occurs, since vibrational properties are that of 'rock', 'mineral', basic and permanent of any other densities. 2D species are destroyed on a daily basis, here on Earth. But then, can a tiger killing/eating a child or a sheep be compatible with 4D? Yes 2D is indeed compatible with 4D...but what type of 2D? Current 2D? Maybe. Maybe not. Also, 3D is compatible with 4D when 4D entities learn to 'shield/hide' etc, from 3D.

Then you have the situation of a mixed final harvest (note final) with the pressure towards orange ray due to governments, religions, and most important link between money which creates an elite and allows for Orion influence to take hold, to the point that it is dangerous to the survival of a plane, since if people protest, they are easily subjugated, manipulated, brought to fear and to basic survival needs. Plus incarnations of entities and groups that are rather violent, etc. (Maldek, Mars..probably many others).

Events in Spain (May 15 'indignados' movement) as I mentioned before, leaves possibility of hope and I agree with you there is indeed potential, since we can survive outside the 'matrix' now served.

So this situation could take many possibilities, but i think there is a time line or more correctly a cycle that happens no matter what. And ultimately is the Galactic Logos plan what will be in effect. Not even the sub-Logos (the Sun) has ultimate decision...even the archetypes for 3d are becoming somewhat obsolete so close to final harvest and 4d.

But what you are proposing I think are conditions that could possibly apply or be possible on, for example, Venus 3d conditions at the time.

Being in fear about this is however, a mistaken way of looking at this since the evolution of any entity will continue regardless. It seems, that the disclosure could happen to dual activated entities only ( or harvestables 3d)..based on what i'm thinking at this time.

[hogey11]

Our thoughts are more in alignment then it first looks, but I have a few ideas on some of the issues you raise.

And it seems the gateway to intelligent infinity opens and I do not think it opens for 100-700 years continuously...

I think the 100-700 years refers to the amount of time 3D will be able to survive in it's 'outdated' form. More specifically, I think it has to do with lifespans of pure 3D individuals. I think any child who is going to be brought through ascension will probably have not many problems adjusting; that's what kids do best. So lets make an age cutoff of about 15 years old. That leaves about 80% of your age remaining. Ra tells us that our 'natural' lifespans here on earth is about 900 years. Through our distortions and technologies, we've worn that number down to 75-80. Could the 100-700 years reflect our original lifespans - meaning all those who can remember the "old world" will be given their full lifespans back (due to 4D society/sphere) and the variable aspect is how long it will take them to decide to ascend. You'd imagine that after 200 years of living in a 4D society where everything is relatively perfect, one would have to be pretty stubborn to continue to mistrust it and refuse it continuously...

Also, 3D is compatible with 4D when 4D entities learn to 'shield/hide' etc, from 3D.

This is true in that 4D entities can indeed hide from 3D entities, but they are not compatible in any way. 4D can exist for short times within 3D vibrations, but as you say, only by disciplining themselves and shielding against the lower vibrations. It's much simpler than that; 3D is the density of confusion and choice and 4D is the density of love and understanding. With love, there is no choice. This is 4D. A 4D entity cannot exist on a 3D vibration because a 4D entity does not choose; they love. It is simple as that. If you really think about it, it makes sense; if your first response to everything is love, you stop making any choices. It is 5D that teaches us those lessons, as we learn to dole out love in more constructive ways.

Then you have the situation of a mixed final harvest (note final) with the pressure towards orange ray due to governments, religions, and most important link between money which creates an elite and allows for Orion influence to take hold, to the point that it is dangerous to the survival of a plane, since if people protest, they are easily subjugated, manipulated, brought to fear and to basic survival needs. Plus incarnations of entities and groups that are rather violent, etc. (Maldek, Mars..probably many others).

This is where I think these things all hold catalytic value for the earth itself. We are going through these times of extreme juxtaposition in order to acquire the passion to allow harvest to happen. We need to see that the current way of life is unsustainable due to the STS influences that have been cast on the planet; by understanding this, we can move past it.

Ultimately, this comes down to "Is the world a good or bad place?" I think it's tricky. I have come to realize lately that sometimes our own 3D perceptions have it twisted. We see the world as this corrupt, insane place, and for many of us that is a true depiction. However, on a much larger scale, this is not true at all, especially in developing nations. I feel that much of the world, especially those without time to get on internet forums and write/respond to posts for parts of our days (), probably live a much more LOO STO type of life than we ever even realize. Think about it: a bulk of the things in the first world are designed to unplug us from the world and make it our slave. We use more power, more gas, we have more toys, more entertainment, less time, etc. We push ourselves to make the most of our 'precious' lives, as if the only thing holding us back from experiential nirvana is time and money. An example of my point right now would be Greece, a country facing severe austerity measures and is nearly/almost bankrupt as a country. They have articles out saying that it is family and community that is holding the country together right now. In other words, people coming together. This is what people do when they are in crisis, and to your credit, that is what the world is seeing right now. However, we need to see it as experiential catalyst rather than a sad story, which is tough because we all want others to do well.


At the end of the day, I am right with you on the disclosure part. I believe the Confederation will have a large part in harvest, and I would be surprised if there was not some sort of preparations following a disclosure agreement/moment. I think this is the real elephant in the room, imo....

[3DMonkey]

, I am right with you on the disclosure part. I believe the Confederation will have a large part in harvest, and I would be surprised if there was not some sort of preparations following a disclosure agreement/moment.

what are you thinking? I would like to hear your thoughts on the role this might play.

I, for one, would like to put all the ideas about disclosure into a balloon and fire a shotgun at it. Maybe you could broaden my perspective

[hogey11]

We may note at this point while you ponder the possibility/probability vortices that although you have many, many items which cause distress and thus offer seeking and service opportunities, there is always one container in that store of peace, love, light, and joy. This vortex may be very small, but to turn one’s back upon it is to forget the infinite possibilities of the present moment. Could your planet polarize towards harmony in one fine, strong, moment of inspiration? Yes, my friends. It is not probable; but it is ever possible.

I think the Confederation is going to help us take a shot at that "one fine, strong, moment of inspiration". I think their role is explained by Ra as such in question 51 when asked of those who watch over harvest:

The second class of those who ward this process [harvest] are those of the Confederation who have the honor/duty of standing in the small places at the edge of the steps of light/love so that those entities being harvested will not, no matter how confused or unable to make contact with their Higher Self, stumble and fall away for any reason other than the strength of the light. These Confederation entities catch those who stumble and set them aright so that they may continue into the light.

I interpret this as a support role through the harvest scenario being played out. If our world is ready to ascend but it's people are never given a chance to truly strive for such due to the daily rigors of life then it probably will not happen. Disclosure will dismantle all the things that are hurting our chances to ascend right now. It will clear the field of obstacles and allow us to make a definitive choice suitable for the occasion of harvest. In short, I believe they will come to make it fair again; give us one last good kick at the can before the final buzzer.

[zenmaster]

Disclosure will dismantle all the things that are hurting our chances to ascend right now.

How's that?

[3DMonkey]

Hogey11, are you thinking that disclosure would be a shocker? Sort of a last extreme catalyst for final Earth 3Ders of this forced harvest phase?

I'm sure it would knock our socks off. I'm not so sure it's first on the list to be a final shocker.

I'm not so much into "harvest" and "polarization" at this particular moment. I'm not so sure why Ra gave us this information other than to act as catalyst in and of itself as information goes. I'm not so sure I should be considering it literally any more than I should take jesus floating away on a cloud.

As a race, I do believe we would progress if we disclosed all known technologies and also released any law for personal rights to intellectual 'properties.' The conundrum is that the way our mind currently works requires our race to have a cooperative agreement on the way our mind works before we can get anything accomplished together. Our Mind continues to create these scenarios whereby we look forward with hope of an outside force, and I will conclude this post doing the same: it would be a blessing to our race to recieve a new way for our Mind to exist be. God, I hope it changes completely some day.

[hogey11]

I agree that it would not be the final shocker, but rather, I think it will be the first shock instead.

I see disclosure as putting an end to the biggest obstacles between us and ascension. What I mean by that is that I see disclosure as something that will bring light to the greatest points of pressure on our planet - politics and religion.

There are multiple layers here. First, I think there will be first contact and a 'honeymoon period' where we are left to process this new reality. After that, we will have a proliferation of technology on the planet that will erase any possible negative intentions in anyone's minds. They will change the world for the betterment of every person, and we will recognize that through even our most primal instincts. Once they have gained our trust, they will help us implement the underpinnings for the new 4D society through new governments and legal understandings.

With religion, the reality of the Confederation would pretty much destroy all religions, or rather, fuse them into a single religion. Once we see ourselves as part of a galactic community, these lines in the sand will be soundly wiped out. From what I understand, they have much corrections to make to history as well, as many and most religions are connected to them in some way.

It is at this point that we will be able to truly start to put ourselves towards harvest and our ascension. I believe the Confederation is out there ready to jump in and help us towards our goal in the final minutes. Like Ra said in the earlier quote, all will be given a true chance to ascend. I don't see how that can be true if people are still working 80 hrs a week trying to cover their mortgages.... This is a shallow dive into my ideas on this subject. I almost see it like the Confederation has let us break rules and do as we please for all the time before this; they haven't stopped The Powers That Be from controlling a large portion of the earth through all sorts of shady means. However, who's to say they don't take their own benefit in the 11th hour on our behalf? I guess to put it bluntly: What if they come to explain the harvest to us like we're 4 year olds? Just lay it out as clear as they can, so that all who want and wished to live a STO life can finally wake up and participate... one last gambit

[zenmaster]

Counterpoint: I see 'disclosure' as a drastic last resort, a sign that things have gone horribly wrong with what we've bothered to do with what we've been graciously been given. The whole idea with development here is to 'break free' from the collective mind (i.e. yellow-ray) by establishing or substantiating our own 'way'. Once one takes the trouble to do that for themselves, if they feel they it is worthwhile pursuit, they automatically have contact with 'ET's - naturally.

So I'm not sure why this demand to circumvent the process, to skip class and be handed something on a plate without having done prior work? What happened to the self-respect and dignity of working out one's own 'salvation'?

[3DMonkey]

I agree that it would not be the final shocker, but rather, I think it will be the first shock instead.

I see disclosure as putting an end to the biggest obstacles between us and ascension. What I mean by that is that I see disclosure as something that will bring light to the greatest points of pressure on our planet - politics and religion.

There are multiple layers here. First, I think there will be first contact and a 'honeymoon period' where we are left to process this new reality. After that, we will have a proliferation of technology on the planet that will erase any possible negative intentions in anyone's minds. They will change the world for the betterment of every person, and we will recognize that through even our most primal instincts. Once they have gained our trust, they will help us implement the underpinnings for the new 4D society through new governments and legal understandings.

With religion, the reality of the Confederation would pretty much destroy all religions, or rather, fuse them into a single religion. Once we see ourselves as part of a galactic community, these lines in the sand will be soundly wiped out. From what I understand, they have much corrections to make to history as well, as many and most religions are connected to them in some way.

It is at this point that we will be able to truly start to put ourselves towards harvest and our ascension. I believe the Confederation is out there ready to jump in and help us towards our goal in the final minutes. Like Ra said in the earlier quote, all will be given a true chance to ascend. I don't see how that can be true if people are still working 80 hrs a week trying to cover their mortgages.... This is a shallow dive into my ideas on this subject. I almost see it like the Confederation has let us break rules and do as we please for all the time before this; they haven't stopped The Powers That Be from controlling a large portion of the earth through all sorts of shady means. However, who's to say they don't take their own benefit in the 11th hour on our behalf? I guess to put it bluntly: What if they come to explain the harvest to us like we're 4 year olds? Just lay it out as clear as they can, so that all who want and wished to live a STO life can finally wake up and participate... one last gambit

I've highlighted the points in your ideas that are pieces that, in my mind, mesh together into a whole that does not support an idea that an outside influence of ETs would hold any more sway than what we have here already.

Individual's trust, religion, connections to the main idea, shady factions. These are all inherently relevant to the human being.

But, I'll walk out there with you for a moment. If a change/shift/harvest into a new way for Mind to Be occurs, then I think you should adjust some of your thinking as well. Meaning, if we no longer exist within the 3D constructs of the archetypes, then things like trust and religion won't exist or need to exist. How, I do not know, but I'm venturing out of my belief zone right now. In this way, ET disclosure becomes an ET helping hand for the beginning phase of, say, "Fourth Density".

In other words, I think it is important, if we are moving onwards and upwards, that we do so without redesigning what we have here already. This has been done time and time again with the same results. If we don't experience a completely new set of archetypes, and I mean literally not figuratively, then ET helping hands would be better applied from the shadows, i.e. technological advancements to protect our atmosphere and stuff.

The truth is, we are all 4 year olds. We each hold our own capacity to understand spirit. We reach out into the darkness, pop open some illumination light bulbs, store them in our subconscious bag. Each time we do this, our conscious grows a bit more in its capabilities to walk around in the darkness that is the perpetual birthplace of anything spiritual. This can't be fast forwarded FOR someone else. ETs can not show up and learn/teach for us. We are such that, right now, all we can do is be attentive students to our Self's life.

---

I believe the Confederation is out there ready to jump in and help us towards our goal in the final minutes. Like Ra said in the earlier quote, all will be given a true chance to ascend. I don't see how that can be true if people are still working 80 hrs a week trying to cover their mortgages.... This is a shallow dive into my ideas on this subject.

If i may be so bold, I think this may be what is pulling on you. Please, dive deeply in this area and explain your views on this subject. This area of expertise may be of great benefit for us. Explain the dynamics of our social environment's effects on ascension to a new density.

[hogey11]

I see all of your points, but they fly in the face of the reality of a new 4D world post-harvest. You understand me perfectly in those places where you step out of your beliefs in that you embody exactly the type of person I speak about when I say that people are going to need help to get ready.

First, I want to respond to what zenmaster countered with. I totally see where you are coming from, but I feel that it's ignorant of the fact that harvest is nearly upon us. If we were continuing through to more of the same 3D duality, I could see how it would signify more of a breakdown than a breakthrough. However, the game is going to change and therefore so does the lens we view our results through. I see disclosure as a starting point to harvest because it signifies one of the first great leaps towards 4D in which we can live within a galactic community rather than in the microcosm of just our own little world. We need to meet those who are "out there" before we can say this is true. With all that being said, I absolutely think that the Confederation would be more than proud if it were the case that we found our own natural 'way' to ascend, but to demand it of us is another thing entirely. Remember, 3D is duality and confusion, which means both sides exist for the same purpose: to push the other. It would make sense that the wishes of the STS-inclined on this planet would be respected to a certain degree, but just like patience that wears thin, there is also a time to put things proper. I believe we approach that time and that the Confederation is here to make sure things go proper.

In other words, I think it is important, if we are moving onwards and upwards, that we do so without redesigning what we have here already. This has been done time and time again with the same results. If we don't experience a completely new set of archetypes, and I mean literally not figuratively, then ET helping hands would be better applied from the shadows, i.e. technological advancements to protect our atmosphere and stuff.

I think this is the path that has been attempted time and time again as you say. It is this cycle that will break, as there is no more tries to play with. It will be time to 'put up or shut up', and at that point, the real 'adults' will finally step in. They have tried before to plant ideas and technology in our paths so that we may use them for good, but I think we can all agree that this has not happened on a large scale. The majority have been suppressed instead. This is okay, because we are resilient creatures; we still find love in the strangest places. The fact is that the 'natural' route cannot and will not happen if the current rules exist as they do. We need a game-changing moment like disclosure to give us that chance to truly shuffle the deck and fix our mistakes once and for all.

The truth is, we are all 4 year olds. We each hold our own capacity to understand spirit. We reach out into the darkness, pop open some illumination light bulbs, store them in our subconscious bag. Each time we do this, our conscious grows a bit more in its capabilities to walk around in the darkness that is the perpetual birthplace of anything spiritual. This can't be fast forwarded FOR someone else. ETs can not show up and learn/teach for us. We are such that, right now, all we can do is be attentive students to our Self's life.

This is where I think there is a subtlety involved. They are not here to force us to ascend; rather, they are giving us the chance to. By this, I mean breaking down the greatest walls that drive not only our ideologies but also the wars and conflicts on earth. I mentioned religion. I first want to stress that I do not mean that by "tearing down" these things, they will cease to exist and be destroyed. I mean that they will stop functioning like they do and will change into something else; something anchored in less duality and more understanding. The point of breaking down religion would not be anything other than unity - to end the wars and conflicts that surround extreme fundamentalist religious ideas. The thing with the Confederation is that they are actually truly attributed to nearly all religions anyways. In this way, they can unite the world's religions as many messages from a single mouth and we can move forward in respect of one another. Nobody needs to be right or wrong; everyone was right at the end of the day. I see churches and religious groups post-disclosure doing a lot of the organisational work for delineating the needed information about harvest and ascension; I do not see them razed to the ground in flames.

The other major development would be both politics and government. Politics would not be the same after disclosure, as UFO conspiracies are about the most popular idea in that realm there is. If that were true, what else would people put out of the realm of possibilities? JFK? 9/11? Suddenly nothing is unquestionable, and people really start poking and searching for the truth. There is a certain channel that claims that a member of the Confederation was inside the last debt ceiling meeting helping establish the basis of a new global financial system. I realize I may be extremely naive to believe it all, but something about it resonates with me. The high-level STS entities have been reaching HARD in the last few years as they too approach harvest. Due to the extreme % of STS action/thought they require, the over-reach on both corporate greed and government control has gotten suffocating; this is no coincidence imo. I feel we are the precipice of starting something BIG with the world. We've worn it down into nearly nothing, and all there is to do now is build it back up!

I think the aliens main message to prepare us for ascension will simply be to stop and listen to ourselves; to fix the problems in our lives that we keep putting off due to the stress of wants and needs. Slow down with your life, and learn to listen to your soul. Respond to it, so that you may enter the harvest with the best chance possible. I feel it will be a "listen up!" type of moment for us; the big review before a major exam...

[Raman]

I will reiterate that I do not believe so called disclosure will happen to 3d entities. Then, some here think disclosure would happen if there is nuclear dangers or danger of planetary destruction. Then, there are different types of 'disclosure'. One was done by Ra and others in the past with poor results (except the famous Orion successful influence, leading to a global (currently) money dictatorship severely impeding upwards development of entities.

Then there are 4d entities/civilizations/planets and then next octave entities that directly act upon this last cycle harvest. Also there are 5d entities that are mainly non-physical in their influence as well as 6d.

Obviously we will need to define what disclosure is. The 'revelation' that there are other planetary life forms. We can include as advanced teachings that these forms are from other densities and even octaves (very few would be from 3d since cycles are very short and technology 'primitive' by higher density standards.

No only that. 3d most probably is confined to a planet. This will be especially true of non-opposable thumbs creatures.

More, there is no memory for 3d. Disclosure at this stage so close to harvest (final) where there is little time left for 3 density work most probably interfere with free will(except negatives that do the opposite --believe free will is chaos and need to stop that...of course to their benefit and comfortability). And notice that even positive higher densites would manifest as 'superior' by 3d standards, producing a net negative effect.

4d is not an issue for disclosure ---it is already there: there is memory. There is no veil. It is disclosed automatically because of this.

I think dual activated would be the ones to be 'shown the ropes' of beginning of 4d when activated.

Then, consider time-space. Where was Maldek's time-scape when the planet was destroyed. Seems, it was in a very bad shape as well since the souls were trapped in a knot of fear. And consider as well, 4d time-space. It is already here. There are 4d spirits waiting to be incarnated soon, since they can exist in this 4d time-space. Was that the function of the group that brought the martians here? Spirits at that 3d level need their own 3d time-space that has to be in/around/on the planet to be incarnated. Then, they also brought martian 3d time-space here so they could incarnate.

The 3d time-space of earth cannot be here 'parking' the 3d souls waiting or soon to be waiting to be incarnated in another planet. It seems there are co-existing temporarily (3d-4d). So the actions of these higher densities/octave entities would have to deal with time-space as well.


Another thing is planetary destruction by 3d entities. There are several issues here.
I do not think the Galactic Logos will go along with this since free will is favored in this galaxy and this is a positive planet (believe it or not). Although the harvest is MIXED.

Then there is the issue of thousands upon thousands of nuclear weapons and also many nuclear plants. Ra said that 3d entities, artifacts, thoughts, feelings will cease to exist when earth gos 4d activated. Nuclear stuff are indeed artifacts (things, including built/constructed things).

I think what we will witness is something much higher than 'magical'. Much more powerful. But no necessarily having to do with 'disclosure' for non-harvestables 3d's. The basic thing is that 3d needs to be gone in order for 4d to start. Its foundations destroyed so something new can be built. And this has to do in my opinion with the fact that it is a mixed final harvest (the cycle has to complete no matter what) and it is disharmonious.

[hogey11]

... i'll edit this later, lost my thoughts

[zenmaster]

I see all of your points, but they fly in the face of the reality of a new 4D world post-harvest. You understand me perfectly in those places where you step out of your beliefs in that you embody exactly the type of person I speak about when I say that people are going to need help to get ready.

First, I want to respond to what zenmaster countered with. I totally see where you are coming from, but I feel that it's ignorant of the fact that harvest is nearly upon us. If we were continuing through to more of the same 3D duality, I could see how it would signify more of a breakdown than a breakthrough. However, the game is going to change and therefore so does the lens we view our results through. I see disclosure as a starting point to harvest because it signifies one of the first great leaps towards 4D in which we can live within a galactic community rather than in the microcosm of just our own little world.

I'm not sure who is being 'ignorant.' You do realize that no one is given something 'extra to work with' by positive ET contact, unless one is prepared for it. Since most are not prepared, then the universe naturally must allow the opposition equal access. That is the ultimate disaster.

Here's a practical scenario in our current social dynamic: let's say some (inevitable) unsustainable habit led to desperate outreach for help. Well, both sides would come forth, both offering a 'solution'. What exactly is it again that would have society choose what is in its best interest? If it's the same consciousness that created the situation in the first place, then how again is there going to be a helpful 'disclosure'? The actual situation may just be a little broader than anticipated, and 'ignorance' sort of redefined. One just doesn't automatically inherit a positive place in galactic community - it's necessarily a choice, obviously.

[unity100]

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=3113

[Raman]

I still find puzzling why most of the people see slowly dying, suffering, (which for many 2d/3d current conditions are) as positive and phenomena that allows for quick evolution as negative. Not to say that there are cycles that need completion.

Pair this with the quantum jump that divide the vibratory states between densities as radically different from each other except 2d-3d vibratory levels.

[Oceania]

could we organize somekind of mutiny if we find out that there is no sense to the ALL? i know this density is not of understanding but if so, why does Ra even try to explain to us crap? why can't we be the idiots that we are instead of having to blindly believe in something that doesn't make sense to us.

and will disclosure allow us to have an easier life to ascend? people have opposing opinions. some might say it's a cop out or too easy then, even though on other planets it WAS easy. i think it would be unfair to have it be so hard here.

[hogey11]

You do realize that no one is given something 'extra to work with' by positive ET contact, unless one is prepared for it. Since most are not prepared, then the universe naturally must allow the opposition equal access.

What makes you say that?

I don't mean to come across as indignant, but who are you to gauge the collective will of the planet? In my own experience, I have seen a massive rise in collective consciousness over the last 6 months alone, let alone any larger period of time.

I think the heart of the issue here lies in whether the harvest/ascension process is something that we are left to deal with on our own (like the duality of 3D) or if the dynamic changes and we start to see acts of intervention for our benefit (disclosure). I feel the following question makes it clear that this process is not left 100% to our whims, but that the TRUE intention of the souls on earth would have an equal chance of becoming reality.

51.1 Questioner: As we begin Book Three of The Law of One there are a couple of questions of fairly non-transient importance that I have and one that I consider to be of a transient nature that I feel obligated to ask.

The first is clearing up the final point about harvest. I was wondering if there is a supervision over the harvest and if so, why this supervision is necessary and how it works since an entity’s harvestability is determined by the violet ray? Is it necessary for entities to supervise the harvest, or is it automatic?
Ra: I am Ra. In time of harvest there are always harvesters. The fruit is formed as it will be, but there is some supervision necessary to ensure that this bounty is placed as it should be without the bruise or the blemish.

There are those of three levels watching over harvest.

The first level is planetary and that which may be called angelic. This type of guardian includes the mind/body/spirit complex totality or Higher Self of an entity and those inner plane entities which have been attracted to this entity through its inner seeking.

The second class of those who ward this process are those of the Confederation who have the honor/duty of standing in the small places at the edge of the steps of light/love so that those entities being harvested will not, no matter how confused or unable to make contact with their Higher Self, stumble and fall away for any reason other than the strength of the light. These Confederation entities catch those who stumble and set them aright so that they may continue into the light.

The third group watching over this process is that group you call the Guardians. This group is from the octave above our own and serves in this manner as light bringers. These Guardians provide the precise emissions of light/love in exquisitely fastidious disseminations of discrimination so that the precise light/love vibration of each entity may be ascertained.

Thus the harvest is automatic in that those harvested will respond according to that which is unchangeable during harvest. That is the violet ray emanation. However, these helpers are around to ensure a proper harvesting so that each entity may have the fullest opportunity to express its violet ray selfhood.

According to supposed Confederation channels, there is a hard window where they will come no matter what the consequences. We have until this time to try to do it ourselves, for it will create the maximum amount of growth and catalyst if we do it ourselves. If we fail, which some of us think is a possibility (Q'uo says it's not), then we will probably respond with aggression and blow ourselves up. I believe this window exists and the Confederation will come to liberate the true ideals held by those on earth. They will help us transition away from a world that exists for business, corporate, and special interests alone. Instead, they will help usher in the 4D society that we have been denied up to this point, exactly for the reason you have brought up; we have been forced to accept duality, but the harvest will change this. The STS side has taken a few liberties over the years with technology deals and outside manipulation, why can't the STO side bend a few rules as well and come to institute a maximal harvest? I see a disclosed harvest that is supervised by our Confederate brothers and sisters to be a much more promising prospect than us stumbling through it ourselves... and I just want to be clear that I don't believe that disclosure will actually increase the harvest. I think there will be people who accept disclosure and I think there will be people who just cannot. I feel disclosure will help people reach their full potential rather than recruit more souls. I think people's hearts cry out for a 4D society, but that is not our reality in this space/time. Disclosure will end the "quiet horror" that Ra said makes the world look so negative. Disclosure will bring joy to all the people who don't want to keep running on their hamster wheel, and it is these people who will rise up. Those who want to be distrustful and angry that their social position no longer matters can deal with it on another 3D planet... it's totally up to them

[3DMonkey]

could we organize somekind of mutiny if we find out that there is no sense to the ALL? i know this density is not of understanding but if so, why does Ra even try to explain to us crap? why can't we be the idiots that we are instead of having to blindly believe in something that doesn't make sense to us.

and will disclosure allow us to have an easier life to ascend? people have opposing opinions. some might say it's a cop out or too easy then, even though on other planets it WAS easy. i think it would be unfair to have it be so hard here.

Ra only wanted to express the LOO, which basically is teaching us how to express our being-ness. All that other crap was just answers to somebody's questions. Time and time again, they said it was 'crap' in other words.

---

Individuals like hogey11 and myself just like to spend time contemplating the complexities of how things might come about.


@Hogey11, I would like to explore What the Confederation and the Council of Saturn are. What they represent, and what their actual existence truly is.

[Raman]

Those who want to be distrustful and angry that their social position no longer matters can deal with it on another 3D planet... it's totally up to them

Hopefully within a solar system that does not allow opposable thumbs!

[hogey11]

Thus the harvest is automatic in that those harvested will respond according to that which is unchangeable during harvest. That is the violet ray emanation. However, these helpers are around to ensure a proper harvesting so that each entity may have the fullest opportunity to express its violet ray selfhood.

I feel this here is the tricky part of the whole thing. The word "automatic" elicits a certain response from us, as if it would be passive-automatic. I don't think we can jump to that conclusion. Anything that is automatic still requires instruction. Automatics cars still need to be driven, automatic coffee machines still need to be fed money and selections, etc. The more pressing issue then is the violet ray selfhood and whether or not it is being able to properly express itself on earth. This is where I feel disclosure could make a difference. Remove the blockages created by duality and let people make their choice freely without being under duress. Isn't that the point of the greater levels of catalyst leading up to harvest? To give people all the experiences they needed to make harvest? We know the amount of wanderers and graduated souls (from Earth and Maldek) has only risen since Ra spoke to us and their violet ray selfhoods would most likely be very high. The world has also doubled in population in that time. When given the chance, I believe the world will explode with compassion; there just doesn't yet exist the power to summon it yet. Disclosure would get the foot in the door, imo.

[3DMonkey]

Thus the harvest is automatic in that those harvested will respond according to that which is unchangeable during harvest. That is the violet ray emanation. However, these helpers are around to ensure a proper harvesting so that each entity may have the fullest opportunity to express its violet ray selfhood.

I feel this here is the tricky part of the whole thing. The word "automatic" elicits a certain response from us, as if it would be passive-automatic. I don't think we can jump to that conclusion. Anything that is automatic still requires instruction. Automatics cars still need to be driven, automatic coffee machines still need to be fed money and selections, etc. The more pressing issue then is the violet ray selfhood and whether or not it is being able to properly express itself on earth. This is where I feel disclosure could make a difference. Remove the blockages created by duality and let people make their choice freely without being under duress. Isn't that the point of the greater levels of catalyst leading up to harvest? To give people all the experiences they needed to make harvest? We know the amount of wanderers and graduated souls (from Earth and Maldek) has only risen since Ra spoke to us and their violet ray selfhoods would most likely be very high. The world has also doubled in population in that time. When given the chance, I believe the world will explode with compassion; there just doesn't yet exist the power to summon it yet. Disclosure would get the foot in the door, imo.

I feel like I can't place this within the same idea that fourth density is a mind set. Since my brain isn't combining the two like yours is, I think your mind is trying to work out sociological issues (something I have had the impression that you are good at).

[zenmaster]

You do realize that no one is given something 'extra to work with' by positive ET contact, unless one is prepared for it. Since most are not prepared, then the universe naturally must allow the opposition equal access.

What makes you say that?

Well, due to the general lack of polarization and ability to move from the yellow-ray mass mind to a position of choice? Keep in mind the 'protection' or any 'advice' we would receive is a function of our 3D collective bias and free-will considered, perceived needs. There is still 'armegeddon' for minds going on. The negatives are welcome in a mixed harvest. If the stakes are raised to 'disclosure', then both sides may now manifest - and what horrible tragedy would be required and would result from such a gross escalation of contact method?

---

Thus the harvest is automatic in that those harvested will respond according to that which is unchangeable during harvest. That is the violet ray emanation. However, these helpers are around to ensure a proper harvesting so that each entity may have the fullest opportunity to express its violet ray selfhood.

I feel this here is the tricky part of the whole thing. The word "automatic" elicits a certain response from us, as if it would be passive-automatic.

Not really. It means it's a fool-proof system whereby intelligent energy between individual and environment is attracted, on to the other, by mutual rapprochement, same as what has 3D native entities incarnating at a particular place and time as suitable to their awareness and developmental bias.

[3DMonkey]

Maybe when everyone receives their copy of The Source Field Investigations we can proceed as if Disclosure did happen and walk into the next density with ease