so Jesus killed someone, right?

[Plenum]

I have heard many accounts of the 'true story of Jesus'. I even remember the one that Billy Meier told when he 'time-travelled' back with Asket and met Jesus lol.

there are also accounts to paint Jesus as just a 'man', in the very aptly named book - Jesus the Man, by Barbara Thiering.

- -

one of the most controversial accounts is the one given by Ra. The Gospels say that Jesus cursed a tree and withered it, but in this passage here, Ra claims that Jesus actually killed someone in anger:

17.19 Questioner: How did Jesus learn this during his incarnation?

Ra: I am Ra. This entity learned the ability by a natural kind of remembering at a very young age. Unfortunately, this entity first discovered his ability to penetrate intelligent infinity by becoming the distortion you call “angry” at a playmate. This entity was touched by the entity known as Jesus and was fatally wounded.

now, this was really an 'accident', a spilling over of the emotions as a young child. Surely you can't give a kid karma for something like this?

Ra says otherwise:

18.8 Questioner: Then an entity four years old would be totally responsible for any actions that were against or inharmonious with the Law of One. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

and eventually an atonement was reached:

17.20 The entity was absolved karmically of the destruction of an other-self when it was in the last portion of lifetime and spoke upon what you would call a cross saying, “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.” In forgiveness lies the stoppage of the wheel of action, or what you call karma.

- -

so there we have it.

the story that you choose to believe about Jesus comes down to a matter of Faith. Although we trust Ra and the words that he transmits, there is no 'ultimate proof', especially when it comes to long distant historical claims.

there are many things in the Law of One that can be verified through practice (the balancing exercises, working with the archetypes, unlocking the energy centres). Other things 'cannot'.

the full story that Ra gives in Session 17 of the life of Jesus is the one that I am currently 'believing in'.

thanks

[Oceania]

he forgave others for the same crime he committed. ignorantly killing someone.

[zodekai]

It is a metaphor. Like a great amount of the rest of the Ra material.

[Steppingfeet]

The story of Jesus killing a childhood playmate actually emerged looong before the 1980's.

Check out The Infancy Gospel of Thomas dated within the second and third centuries.

The Great Childhood Deeds of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ

1 1 When the boy Jesus was five years old, he was playing at the ford of a rushing stream. And he gathered the disturbed water into pools and made them pure and excellent, commanding them by the character of his word alone and not by means of a deed.
Animation of the Sparrows

2 Then, taking soft clay from the mud, he formed twelve sparrows. It was the Sabbath when he did these things, and many children were with him.

3 And a certain Jew, seeing the boy Jesus with the other children doing these things, went to his father Joseph and falsely accused the boy Jesus, saying that, on the Sabbath he made clay, which is not lawful, and fashioned twelve sparrows.

4 And Joseph came and rebuked him, saying, “Why are you doing these things on the Sabbath?” But Jesus, clapping his hands, commanded the birds with a shout in front of everyone and said, “Go, take flight, and remember me, living ones.” And the sparrows, taking flight, went away squawking.

5 When the Pharisee saw this he was amazed and reported it to all his friends.

2 1 And the son of Annas the scribe had come with Joseph. And taking a willow twig, he destroyed the pools and drained out the water which Jesus had gathered together. And he dried up their gatherings.

2 And Jesus, seeing what had happened, said to him, “Your fruit (shall be) without root and your shoot shall be dried up like a branch scorched by a strong wind.”

3 And instantly that child withered.

3 1 While he was going from there with his father Joseph, a child running tore into his shoulder. And Jesus said to him, “You shall no longer go our way.” And instantly he died. At once the people, seeing that he was dead, cried out and said, “Where was this boy born that his word becomes a deed?”

2 When they saw what had happened the parents of the dead boy blamed his father Joseph, saying, “Because you have this boy you cannot live with us in this village. If you wish to be here, teach him to bless and not to curse.”

[Bring4th_Austin]

It is a metaphor. Like a great amount of the rest of the Ra material.

What method do you personally use discern what is a metaphor and what isn't a metaphor within the Ra material?

[3DMonkey]

If Jesus were in a gang, his nickname would be Killa'

[Oceania]

lol you tell him that joke when he comes the second time

[Ruth]

lol you tell him that joke when he comes the second time

In my view of the world where all is now, 3DMonkey just told Jesus that joke!

One of the ways in which I thought differently from my Christian upbringing is that I actually beieved it when I was taught that Jesus was a man, a HUMAN, man. That he took on all the traits of being a human. The only difference is that he didn't have the veil. So for me, to believe that Jesus killed someone is not far fetched at all. I can also imagine him taking a wife at some point. Not at all out of line, in fact to my mind, it makes his example all the more vaild.

[Oceania]

apparently his affair with Mary was erased from records, but the dead sea scrolls had some stuff about it.

[Diana]

2 And Jesus, seeing what had happened, said to him, “Your fruit (shall be) without root and your shoot shall be dried up like a branch scorched by a strong wind.”

3 And instantly that child withered.

3 1 While he was going from there with his father Joseph, a child running tore into his shoulder. And Jesus said to him, “You shall no longer go our way.” And instantly he died. At once the people, seeing that he was dead, cried out and said, “Where was this boy born that his word becomes a deed?”

I can't help but to ask, if Jesus was a man who actually existed, and if these stories are historically accurate, what sort of person would Jesus have been? When I was a child I wouldn't have hurt anyone, even to say something mean. We also instinctively know our powers.

I can see the efficacy of Ra talking about how to get off the wheel of karma using Jesus as an example. As I have no emotional attachment to Jesus at all, I don't care whether it's a metaphor or a true story. The substance of the story is the way to get off the wheel of karma.

In discernment, one might first try and clear one's self of need. When we need, we color everything with it. So if one doesn't need the story to be true or false, one might get to the part about how to end karma--something of real use. Whether the story is true or false doesn't seem useful.

Humans tend to "look up to" other individuals (and of course we have taken this to a ridiculous degree by adulating movie stars and celebrities of all kinds). I think this is a great distortion. For one thing, it creates a brick wall, as though that great person is on one side and the average person on the other. Religion or new age philosophy would say differently, and talk about how we can do what he (Jesus) could do, but by setting him apart it effectively does the opposite. So-called living masters set up the same dynamic, saying "been there done that," and I will show you how.

Discernment? Just ask yourself the questions. Your answer is as good as any other out there. I am quite sure that Ra would say the same.

[Bring4th_Austin]

2 And Jesus, seeing what had happened, said to him, “Your fruit (shall be) without root and your shoot shall be dried up like a branch scorched by a strong wind.”

3 And instantly that child withered.

3 1 While he was going from there with his father Joseph, a child running tore into his shoulder. And Jesus said to him, “You shall no longer go our way.” And instantly he died. At once the people, seeing that he was dead, cried out and said, “Where was this boy born that his word becomes a deed?”

Is this from the supposed lost text of the Bible that describes the incident? I had always read the Ra passage to mean that Jesus physically assaulted a playmate out of frustration and accidentally killed him somehow (like a freak accident), but recently took note to Ra's words that Jesus "first discovered his ability to penetrate intelligent infinity" through this incident...then I wondered if it were something more like what is described here. Thanks for sharing this.

I can't help but to ask, if Jesus was a man who actually existed, and if these stories are historically accurate, what sort of person would Jesus have been? When I was a child I wouldn't have hurt anyone, even to say something mean. We also instinctively know our powers.

Would a Wanderer with a natural affinity to contact intelligent infinity and have his "word become deed" understand this power at a young age? Do you suppose that, if this account is factual, Jesus instinctually knew that his emotion and focused intention might harm the other child? I would doubt this. I also remember throwing violent tantrums as a child as a result of frustration, becoming violent and bitter, despite the fact that I was normally a very docile, calm, quiet, and gentle kid. All energy centers are awaiting to be activated in entities new to incarnation...no one is automatically balanced, and some may have some issues activating in balance despite their preincarnational disposition.

I can see the efficacy of Ra talking about how to get off the wheel of karma using Jesus as an example. As I have no emotional attachment to Jesus at all, I don't care whether it's a metaphor or a true story. The substance of the story is the way to get off the wheel of karma.

I don't have any attachment to the idea of Jesus being real either, and the fact that Carla has such a strong belief in the matter makes me question the legitimacy of any Christian or Jesus related talk within the Ra material and any other channeling she does. I was mainly asking zodekai out of curiosity. I've got no problem with arbitrarily picking and choosing what one may consider a metaphor, but it does "muddy up" discussion a bit in certain situations.

[Diana]

Is this from the supposed lost text of the Bible that describes the incident? I had always read the Ra passage to mean that Jesus physically assaulted a playmate out of frustration and accidentally killed him somehow (like a freak accident), but recently took note to Ra's words that Jesus "first discovered his ability to penetrate intelligent infinity" through this incident...then I wondered if it were something more like what is described here. Thanks for sharing this.

Bring4th_GLB posted the above quote, a few posts back.

Would a Wanderer with a natural affinity to contact intelligent infinity and have his "word become deed" understand this power at a young age? Do you suppose that, if this account is factual, Jesus instinctually knew that his emotion and focused intention might harm the other child? I would doubt this. I also remember throwing violent tantrums as a child as a result of frustration, becoming violent and bitter, despite the fact that I was normally a very docile, calm, quiet, and gentle kid.

I don't personally find it a likely scenario that an advanced being, even as a child, would just haphazardly come across powers, and not have any sense of them. Even when throwing a tantrum, did you stop loving your parents? I can't buy the idea that children with powers would innocently kill. No offense to Ra, or anybody else.

I don't have any attachment to the idea of Jesus being real either, and the fact that Carla has such a strong belief in the matter makes me question the legitimacy of any Christian or Jesus related talk within the Ra material and any other channeling she does. I was mainly asking zodekai out of curiosity. I've got no problem with arbitrarily picking and choosing what one may consider a metaphor, but it does "muddy up" discussion a bit in certain situations.

I didn't mean you or anybody in particular. I was rambling on out loud about what is in my head in general. Sorry for muddying things up.

[Bring4th_Austin]

Bring4th_GLB posted the above quote, a few posts back.

I missed that! Thanks Gary.

Would a Wanderer with a natural affinity to contact intelligent infinity and have his "word become deed" understand this power at a young age? Do you suppose that, if this account is factual, Jesus instinctually knew that his emotion and focused intention might harm the other child? I would doubt this. I also remember throwing violent tantrums as a child as a result of frustration, becoming violent and bitter, despite the fact that I was normally a very docile, calm, quiet, and gentle kid.

I don't personally find it a likely scenario that an advanced being, even as a child, would just haphazardly come across powers, and not have any sense of them. Even when throwing a tantrum, did you stop loving your parents? I can't buy the idea that children with powers would innocently kill. No offense to Ra, or anybody else.

It's not so easy to dissect emotions as a child. I can definitely say that I described feelings towards others as hate as a child.

I also find the Jesus story from Ra a bit suspicious, yet this story from the intro to Book 1 is slightly related, if you're inclined to believe what Carla and Don have written:

One example which shows the close connection between UFOs and mental
metal-bending happened to us in July of 1977, after our book, Secrets of the
UFO, was published. We had been interviewed on a local program and a
woman in a nearby town had heard the broadcast and was very interested in
what we had to say since her son, a normal fourteen-year-old boy, had had a
UFO encounter. He had been awakened by a whistling sound, went to the
door, and saw a light so bright that it temporarily blinded him. Again, as is
often the case, it was the same night that people nearby also saw lights in
the sky. The woman wrote us a letter, and Don immediately called and
asked her permission to speak to her son. After questioning the young man
to Don’s satisfaction, Don asked him to take a piece of silverware and tell it
to bend without touching it in any firm or forceful way. The fourteen-yearold
picked up a fork, did as Don suggested, and the fork immediately bent
nearly double.
The boy was so startled that he would not come back to the phone...

[Oceania]

i believe in Jesus. i've always had an attachment to Jesus. not in a big way i've just always felt he was a real person and i've always loved the stories. but it doesn't color one way or another what i learn from those stories. factual or not, what Ra said about the incident makes sense whether it's metaphor or not. we can always use things to help us uniquely. but there's nothing wrong with need, or needing it to be true. and i think if you believe it is, it is.

[Ankh]

I believed that Jesus definitely has been real, but that he was just a normal guy who perhaps could do some stuff, but not all that magic that it says he did in the Bible. But when Ra mentioned that the dude was a 4D Wanderer who just remembered a lot of stuff, that suddenly made a lot of sense to me. (I don't know about you, but I see so much humor in that statement of mine. What people say and what Bible says, which is a very accepted book to believe in our society, I do not believe in that. But I do believe in what an alleged alien contact channeled in 80's said. My brain has ceased resisting this, but can't stop laughing!) Well, anyway, there was some Q'uo session I read once, and I can't find it ever since, where they said something about that it's ok to have some kind of Creator-self image. Whether it is Jesus, or Buddha, or in my case - Ra. It's what that Creator-self image creates inside of you that counts, not whatever or whomever you believe in. So if you believe in unicorns and fairytales - hey, awesome! It adds to the positive thought-forms on our planet and raises this planet's vibration. That's why we came here, among other things.

[Shemaya]

I love Jesus, but since starting on this spiritual quest my ideas about him have been completely turned upside down. The Ra story doesn't feel like the Jesus I think of....but that's Ok because maybe Ra is speaking of a different Jesus. And maybe it was a metaphor or a detuned session or I just don't want to believe this particular story.

Much of what we have been taught about Jesus isn't true...stories/myths that give us a perspective that Sts folks have used against us to manipulate and control.

[Oceania]

i believe in Unicorns and Fairies and all that stuff! and also Jesus and Buddha and Krishna. i think Krishna was Jesus.

[godwide_void]

I think Krishna who was Jesus who may have also been Buddha and possibly a unicorn fairy who became Charlie Sheen are all the same being wearing different masks.

[Ankh]

I love Jesus, but since starting on this spiritual quest my ideas about him have been completely turned upside down. The Ra story doesn't feel like the Jesus I think of....but that's Ok because maybe Ra is speaking of a different Jesus. And maybe it was a metaphor or a detuned session or I just don't want to believe this particular story.

Much of what we have been taught about Jesus isn't true...stories/myths that give us a perspective that Sts folks have used against us to manipulate and control.

Sweety, if the Ra story about Jesus doesn't resonate with you, than don't believe in that!! It is your own image that is important! It is that image that creates the thought-forms, and you become a co-Creator of positive vibrations on this planet. What is true or not, we will see that, when passing into the larger life, but it doesn't matter *now*. That's my advice anyway. To toss the Ra story about Jesus away, and get back to that "home" image of Jesus that you've had in your heart/mind.

[Oceania]

i think Charlie Sheen is the second coming.

noone has to believe the channelings, if you don't believe in Ra's Jesus that's all fine and dandy.

[zodekai]

It is a metaphor. Like a great amount of the rest of the Ra material.

What method do you personally use discern what is a metaphor and what isn't a metaphor within the Ra material?

I do not use "personal" methods.


2 1 And the son of Annas the scribe had come with Joseph. And taking a willow twig, he destroyed the pools and drained out the water which Jesus had gathered together. And he dried up their gatherings.

Questioner: Why is the spiraling light focused by something as open and simple as four wooden rods joined at an apex angle?

Ra: I am Ra. If you pictured light in the metaphysical sense, as water, and the pyramid shape as a funnel, this concept might become self-evident.



There are lots of ways to "drain waters" while killing a playmate.



and one may draw it 4th as you can see.