"good works for the wrong reasons"
10-08-2015, 10:02 AM,
#31
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 09:10 AM)Shemaya Wrote:  In the quote, Ra says, "There is no polarity."  I think that is because our true nature and identity is radiant, a star.

Also, our perspective is in linear time.  We think of STS beings as they are in time and illusion and distortion. They are disconnected from Unity in time / illusion only.  The option to disregard the Green Ray is just illusion because all of us as souls, in the fullness of time, are radiant stars.

We are on an evolutionary path in time, however time is illusory.  

I posted somewhere earlier that STS entities are very loving beings who were willing to sacrifice their connection and true nature to be our catalysts.  They help us on our evolutionary path by providing catalyst for our expansion of consciousness within Creation

So that is my basis for calling it false, because they are disconnected from truth, from their true nature.  And in truth, there is no polarity.

In creation however, there is an organic polarity of positive/ negative, yin/ yang, male/ female, night/ day etc. that has nothing to do with STS/ STO. It is confusing because we make mental associations ie. Dark is evil .  However, creation is like our canvas, what we make, it is not us.  "The Body is a creature of the Mind"

Therefore yin is evil, people of color are evil/ to be feared, nighttime is evil and scary.  We have gotten very confused!

OK, but that didn't really answer my question.  In an infinity where you are EVERYTHING, how can anything be false?  Wouldn't a claim of falsehood mean denial of a part of yourself?

I mean, Ra also said very concretely "there is no right or wrong."  That must also mean there is no falseness, since 'false' and 'wrong' are functional synonyms.  STS is no more (or less) disconnected from truth than anyone else living in the lower densities.  They have one version of the truth, just as everyone else does, and no one can really claim any high ground.  We're all living in and embracing distortions, because we haven't learned how to dispel them yet.  

I just can't reconcile Ra's words with your idea that "In unity, we identify with what is true and completely let go of what is false."  In light of Ra's statements, it seems that the concepts of right/true and wrong/false are themselves distortions.  Plus, we're in an infinite omniverse all happening at once, which means there's a LOT of room for things to be true, even seemingly contradictory things.

And I'm not sure why you keep talking about "evil" when I've been explicitly saying all along that there shouldn't be moral judgement attached to either polarity. I agree completely that "evil" doesn't have anything to do with this.  That's not even really part of the discussion, just the nature of Unity itself.

None of what you said really goes against the basic idea that the polarities blend in Unity to create a greater whole.  It doesn't explain what Ra meant when he said the "polarities must needs take in each other" upon reaching 7D, if not what would seem the plain meaning of the words.  The polarities take in each other.  They merge.  What other meaning can you assign to that?

The higher densities are radiant, but it's a radiant love of ALL.  Everything in Creation. Light Picnics AND Dark Picnics.  Even the picnics that might seem false to you or me.  That's part of the challenge of achieving it.  The Creator Loves EVERYTHING in the infinite omniverse equally, all of which is happening simultaneously, and that's what the sub-creations have to learn as well if they are to re-achieve Unity with the Creator.
 

Time will tell.  It always does.
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10-08-2015, 10:33 AM,
#32
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 10:02 AM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote:  
(10-08-2015, 09:10 AM)Shemaya Wrote:  In the quote, Ra says, "There is no polarity."  I think that is because our true nature and identity is radiant, a star.

Also, our perspective is in linear time.  We think of STS beings as they are in time and illusion and distortion. They are disconnected from Unity in time / illusion only.  The option to disregard the Green Ray is just illusion because all of us as souls, in the fullness of time, are radiant stars.

We are on an evolutionary path in time, however time is illusory.  

I posted somewhere earlier that STS entities are very loving beings who were willing to sacrifice their connection and true nature to be our catalysts.  They help us on our evolutionary path by providing catalyst for our expansion of consciousness within Creation

So that is my basis for calling it false, because they are disconnected from truth, from their true nature.  And in truth, there is no polarity.

In creation however, there is an organic polarity of positive/ negative, yin/ yang, male/ female, night/ day etc. that has nothing to do with STS/ STO. It is confusing because we make mental associations ie. Dark is evil .  However, creation is like our canvas, what we make, it is not us.  "The Body is a creature of the Mind"

Therefore yin is evil, people of color are evil/ to be feared, nighttime is evil and scary.  We have gotten very confused!

OK, but that didn't really answer my question.  In an infinity where you are EVERYTHING, how can anything be false?  Wouldn't a claim of falsehood mean denial of a part of yourself?



The higher densities are radiant, but it's a radiant love of ALL.  Everything in Creation. Light Picnics AND Dark Picnics.  Even the picnics that might seem false to you or me.  That's part of the challenge of achieving it.  The Creator Loves EVERYTHING in the infinite omniverse equally, all of which is happening simultaneously, and that's what the sub-creations have to learn as well if they are to re-achieve Unity with the Creator.
 

Well I think it depends on what you identify with, the personality living in time or the Radiant being in all densities.

What is my/our true identity?

The STS path is the path of that which is not, it's negative. It's a path that rejects Unity, basically rejecting the Creator because the Creator is love and unity.

The Creator's love for Everything is not rainbows, unicorns and gumdrops.  The Creator's love is every emotion.   The Creator's love for the Dark Picnics is Divine Wrath, Righteous Anger and embodied Kali.   And at this point (in time) of the split between positive and negative paths, the Creator rejects the false, rejects the negative, and passionately brings forth a new Earth that fully contains green Ray energy.

If we validate the STS way as true and not the illusion that it is, we give it power to stay here.  But I think it's time for it to go from this earth.
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10-08-2015, 10:43 AM,
#33
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
STS is nowhere near being false. The duality of polarity exists from self existing among other-selves which in turn makes both polarities valid paths and true in themselves.

If you want to talk about being cut off from our true nature, then what is false is many-ness. We never were many, we always were One exploring the delusion of being many. In this sense, both paths are equally false in themselves as they both explore the illusion of not being alone in an endless void with self being the only thing there is.

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10-08-2015, 10:49 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-08-2015, 10:55 AM by Elros.)
#34
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
I believe there are many on this forum who wouldn't care if this planet harvested into 4D positive as STS entities do need a planet for themselves.

Might not look like it from earth but those who are actually having control are those of the STO path, they practically never let STS entities get planets of their own. They're trying their utmost to extinguish these desires which are no consonant with their own so that this Creation remain how they want it to be for themselves. 

STO entities only serve themselves, not the All unlike the higher orders which we can witness.

...

Perhaps there will be a day when this galaxy will be mostly STS and the STO ones will be the one to struggle to find their own place within this Creation. If it comes to that I hope it will be understood that this was what was done to the other polarity.

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10-08-2015, 10:58 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-08-2015, 11:00 AM by Shemaya.)
#35
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 10:43 AM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:  STS is nowhere near being false. The duality of polarity exists from self existing among other-selves which in turn makes both polarities valid paths and true in themselves.

Maybe, if you want to say it's a valid path ok, but still it is based on a foundation of untruth, so that is why I call it false.

Quote:If you want to talk about being cut off from our true nature, then what is false is many-ness. We never were many, we always were One exploring the delusion of being many. In this sense, both paths are equally false in themselves as they both explore the illusion of not being alone in an endless void with self being the only thing there is.

 I see your point.  But if you define many-ness as aspects of the One, or sparks of the One then we are all the One.
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10-08-2015, 11:06 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-08-2015, 11:10 AM by Elros.)
#36
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 10:58 AM)Shemaya Wrote:  
(10-08-2015, 10:43 AM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:  STS is nowhere near being false. The duality of polarity exists from self existing among other-selves which in turn makes both polarities valid paths and true in themselves.

Maybe, if you want to say it's a valid path ok, but still it is based on a foundation of untruth, so that is why I call it false.

Sure but so is the STO path, feeling love within one's heart doesn't make everything about it true. STO/STS are both equally the exploration of self desires, what is polarized are those desires.

Both paths at one point need to be transcended and left behind to rejoin with our true nature which encompasses both of them. One can avoid learning STS lessons across all densities but in 6D it will miss portions of the truth that it will need to discover.

(10-08-2015, 10:58 AM)Shemaya Wrote:  
(10-08-2015, 10:43 AM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:  If you want to talk about being cut off from our true nature, then what is false is many-ness. We never were many, we always were One exploring the delusion of being many. In this sense, both paths are equally false in themselves as they both explore the illusion of not being alone in an endless void with self being the only thing there is.

 I see your point.  But if you define many-ness as aspects of the One, or sparks of the One then we are all the One.

Sure, we are individualized portions of the One. But any action can only be from the One to the One as it is all there is. I don't see much difference in one hurting itself and one hurting another self.

Other-selves are projections/extensions of your self, they are of your own making. To them you are the same.

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10-08-2015, 11:14 AM,
#37
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
Here is a great quote regarding the Moon archetype that relates to what I am saying:

Quote:Quote:Ra: I am Ra. The power of which you speak is a spiritual power. The powers of the mind, as such, do not encompass such works as these. You may, with some fruitfulness, consider the possibilities of moonlight. You are aware that we have described the Matrix of the Spirit as a night. The moonlight, then, offers either a true picture seen in shadow or chimera and falsity. The power of falsity is deep as is the power to discern truth from shadow. The shadow of hidden things is an infinite depth in which is stored the power of the One Infinite Creator.


The adept, then, is working with the power of hidden things illuminated by that which can be false or true. To embrace falsity, to know it, to seek it, and to use it gives a power that is most great. This is the nature of the power of your visitor and may shed some light upon the power of one who seeks in order to serve others as well, for the missteps in the night are oh! so easy.
Ra  described the negative greeter as embracing falsity.  The embracing of falsity " gives it a power that is most great."
Thanks to Jade for finding the quote Smile
So that sums up what I am sharing with you guys.  " The power of falsity is deep as is the power to discern truth from shadow."  The moon archetype conceptualizes this and encourages us to use the power of discernment, embracing the truth.  
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10-08-2015, 11:20 AM,
#38
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 11:14 AM)Shemaya Wrote:  Here is a great quote regarding the Moon archetype that relates to what I am saying:


Quote:Quote:Ra: I am Ra. The power of which you speak is a spiritual power. The powers of the mind, as such, do not encompass such works as these. You may, with some fruitfulness, consider the possibilities of moonlight. You are aware that we have described the Matrix of the Spirit as a night. The moonlight, then, offers either a true picture seen in shadow or chimera and falsity. The power of falsity is deep as is the power to discern truth from shadow. The shadow of hidden things is an infinite depth in which is stored the power of the One Infinite Creator.


The adept, then, is working with the power of hidden things illuminated by that which can be false or true. To embrace falsity, to know it, to seek it, and to use it gives a power that is most great. This is the nature of the power of your visitor and may shed some light upon the power of one who seeks in order to serve others as well, for the missteps in the night are oh! so easy.
Ra  described the negative greeter as embracing falsity.  The embracing of falsity " gives it a power that is most great."
Thanks to Jade for finding the quote Smile
So that sums up what I am sharing with you guys.  " The power of falsity is deep as is the power to discern truth from shadow."  The moon archetype conceptualizes this and encourages us to use the power of discernment, embracing the truth.  

I don't think Ra is a great source of information about the STS polarity, I wouldn't be asking some who evolved solely in STS densities either to give me a great explanation and deep understanding of the STO polarity.

He's seen it from afar while never experiencing it directly, rejected it since probably the very beginning of his path, possibly never understood those in it as to why as his own other-selves, they would be as they are.. etc

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10-08-2015, 11:23 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-08-2015, 11:24 AM by APeacefulWarrior.)
#39
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 10:33 AM)Shemaya Wrote:  Well I think it depends on what you identify with, the personality living in time or the Radiant being in all densities.

What is my/our true identity?

The STS path is the path of that which is not, it's negative. It's a path that rejects Unity, basically rejecting the Creator because the Creator is love and unity.

The Creator's love for Everything is not rainbows, unicorns and gumdrops.  The Creator's love is every emotion.   The Creator's love for the Dark Picnics is Divine Wrath, Righteous Anger and embodied Kali.   And at this point (in time) of the split between positive and negative paths, the Creator rejects the false, rejects the negative, and passionately brings forth a new Earth that fully contains green Ray energy.

If we validate the STS way as true and not the illusion that it is, we give it power to stay here.  But I think it's time for it to go from this earth.

So, to you, "Unity" means "Unity after everything I disagree with has vanished in a puff of divine wrath"...?   In truth, I am disturbed by what you say.

I do not believe that anywhere in the Ra materials is mention made of the Creator ever rejecting anything.  I am quite certain he never, ever described the Creator as wrathful in the way you use it here.   I also can't understand how you can equate the Creator's Infinite Love of All with "Righteous Anger" and implied extermination.  Your entire argument disregards how Ra said there is NO right or wrong, and that we are EVERYTHING in infinite simultaneous existence.

The Creator you speak of does not sound anything like the one Ra describes.   It sounds more like the God of the Old Testament.

I'd urge you, please, step away from this conversation. Meditate on these matters. Consult with your higher selves on the meaning of "Love" and "Service."  Come back in a day or two, and reread what you wrote.  Ask yourself, "Does this really sound like a loving entity who desires to do service for others?"  Because I see no service that you are offering to your STS other-selves in that post, aside from rejection and vengeance.  Is that truly what STO means to you?  

Everyone speaks rashly and in anger from time to time.  Growth comes from recognizing these moments and learning from them.  I honestly hope you see this.

Time will tell.  It always does.
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10-08-2015, 11:24 AM,
#40
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 11:20 AM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:  
(10-08-2015, 11:14 AM)Shemaya Wrote:  Here is a great quote regarding the Moon archetype that relates to what I am saying:



Quote:Quote:Ra: I am Ra. The power of which you speak is a spiritual power. The powers of the mind, as such, do not encompass such works as these. You may, with some fruitfulness, consider the possibilities of moonlight. You are aware that we have described the Matrix of the Spirit as a night. The moonlight, then, offers either a true picture seen in shadow or chimera and falsity. The power of falsity is deep as is the power to discern truth from shadow. The shadow of hidden things is an infinite depth in which is stored the power of the One Infinite Creator.


The adept, then, is working with the power of hidden things illuminated by that which can be false or true. To embrace falsity, to know it, to seek it, and to use it gives a power that is most great. This is the nature of the power of your visitor and may shed some light upon the power of one who seeks in order to serve others as well, for the missteps in the night are oh! so easy.
Ra  described the negative greeter as embracing falsity.  The embracing of falsity " gives it a power that is most great."
Thanks to Jade for finding the quote Smile
So that sums up what I am sharing with you guys.  " The power of falsity is deep as is the power to discern truth from shadow."  The moon archetype conceptualizes this and encourages us to use the power of discernment, embracing the truth.  

I don't think Ra is a great source of information about the STS polarity, I wouldn't be asking some who evolved solely in STS densities either to give me a great explanation and deep understanding of the STO polarity.

He's seen it from afar while never experiencing it directly, rejected it since probably the very beginning of his path, possibly never understood those in it as to why as his own other-selves, they would be as they are.. etc


Serious? Then why are we discussing this !?
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10-08-2015, 11:25 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-08-2015, 11:28 AM by Shemaya.)
#41
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
APW, lol!

Higher self is fully onboard, have no worries.  There is no vengeance, just really solid boundaries, and serious discernment of truth.
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10-08-2015, 11:45 AM,
#42
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 11:24 AM)Shemaya Wrote:  
(10-08-2015, 11:20 AM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:  I don't think Ra is a great source of information about the STS polarity, I wouldn't be asking some who evolved solely in STS densities either to give me a great explanation and deep understanding of the STO polarity.


He's seen it from afar while never experiencing it directly, rejected it since probably the very beginning of his path, possibly never understood those in it as to why as his own other-selves, they would be as they are.. etc


Serious? Then why are we discussing this !?

In my view it makes sense that Ra as a STO S/M/C has more wisdom/knowledge of the STO polarity in comparison to any entity that grew and evolved in 4D to 6D in negative densities.

Both reached the same level of awareness of the Creator of Himself, simply went through different paths.

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10-08-2015, 11:52 AM,
#43
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 11:25 AM)Shemaya Wrote:  APW, lol!

Higher self is fully onboard, have no worries.  There is no vengeance, just really solid boundaries, and serious discernment of truth.

I'm really not sure what bothers me more about your post. That you apparently only see my words (and Ra's) as being fit to laugh at when you disagree, or that you can somehow claim that "there is no vengeance" barely an hour after speaking at length about the Creator's supposed "Divine Wrath" and "Righteous Anger" against those you believe to be false.

You aren't even making coherent arguments anymore. You're just self-justifying.

Plus, in the process, you're now claiming a level of discernment of truth that nobody incarnated in 3D has the ability to see. No one here on Earth is qualified to be making any judgments about the worthiness of our other-selves. The Veil and our inability to comprehend simultaneous infinity both make it impossible. Yet you take on this mantle, and specifically so you can start declaring who deserves service and who deserves to have Kali-the-Destroyer unleashed upon them.

Seriously, Shemaya, you're worrying me here. What you are preaching is not what STO looks like to me, and I don't think Ra would recognize it as such either.

Time will tell.  It always does.
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10-08-2015, 11:59 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-08-2015, 12:01 PM by Elros.)
#44
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 11:52 AM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote:  No one here on Earth is qualified to be making any judgments about the worthiness of our other-selves.  The Veil and our inability to comprehend simultaneous infinity both make it impossible.

Well idk about that, I am on earth and believe and feel within myself that all are worthy. That no being nor action ever is lacking of love, glory and beauty.

I guess in a way it is linked to faith, but in higher states of mind I do concretely perceive every being/action as Love and Light. I find it all glorious and beautiful, whatever the color of it.

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10-08-2015, 12:03 PM,
#45
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 11:52 AM)PAPeacefulWarrior Wrote:  
(10-08-2015, 11:25 AM)Shemaya Wrote:  APW, lol!

Higher self is fully onboard, have no worries.  There is no vengeance, just really solid boundaries, and serious discernment of truth.

I'm really not sure what bothers me more about your post.

I would guess it is my truthful words.

Quote:
That you apparently only see my words (and Ra's) as being fit to laugh at when you disagree, or that you can somehow claim that "there is no vengeance" barely an hour after speaking at length about the Creator's supposed "Divine Wrath" and "Righteous Anger" against those you believe to be false.

 No,what was laughable is your patronizing tone.

If you don't believe the Creator experiences every emotion, what can I say.  Divine is a qualifier that distinguishes it from more distorted and less pure emotional energy.  

Quote:You aren't even making coherent arguments anymore.  You're just self-justifying.  

i am not arguing. I am just expressing my thoughts.

Quote:Plus, in the process, you're now claiming a level of discernment of truth that nobody incarnated in 3D has the ability to see.  No one here on Earth is qualified to be making any judgments about the worthiness of our other-selves.  The Veil and our inability to comprehend simultaneous infinity both make it impossible.  Yet you take on this mantle, and specifically so you can start declaring who deserves service and who deserves to have Kali-the-Destroyer unleashed upon them.

Discernment gets sharper when your connection to Higher Self is strong.  I really don't care if you want to judge my level of connection. I know my truth, and that is good enough for me.

Quote:Seriously, Shemaya, you're worrying me here.  What you are preaching is not what STO looks like to me, and I don't think Ra would recognize it as such either.

 seriously, don't worry.  And I am not preaching, just expressing myself in a forum.  You are reading what I wrote, so there must be something here for you or you'd ignore it.
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10-08-2015, 12:06 PM,
#46
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 11:59 AM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:  Well idk about that, I am on earth and believe and feel within myself that all are worthy. That no being nor action ever is lacking of love, glory and beauty.

I guess in a way it is linked to faith, but in higher states of mind I do concretely perceive every being/action as Love and Light. I find it all glorious and beautiful, whatever the color of it.

And I basically agree with you. But there's a big difference between saying "all are worthy" and attempting to concretely separate the "worthy" and "unworthy." None of us are truly fit to judge, not given the limitations of our perceptions and perspectives here on Earth.

But it's a very nice statement of a philosophy and I very much hope it's true. Smile

Time will tell.  It always does.
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10-08-2015, 12:21 PM,
#47
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 12:06 PM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote:  
(10-08-2015, 11:59 AM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:  Well idk about that, I am on earth and believe and feel within myself that all are worthy. That no being nor action ever is lacking of love, glory and beauty.

I guess in a way it is linked to faith, but in higher states of mind I do concretely perceive every being/action as Love and Light. I find it all glorious and beautiful, whatever the color of it.

And I basically agree with you.  But there's a big difference between saying "all are worthy" and attempting to concretely separate the "worthy" and "unworthy." None of us are truly fit to judge, not given the limitations of our perceptions and perspectives here on Earth.  

But it's a very nice statement of a philosophy and I very much hope it's true.  Smile

Ra did say that there are no mistakes under the Law of One.

The purpose of existence is experience, to deny experience of self or other-selves is to deny the purpose of existence altogether.. but that also is an experience. 

I have a very deep belief that ultimately there are no entity that will regret any part of their path and I do think that is most glorious. Even if it takes time, ultimately all will be loved for what it was.

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10-08-2015, 12:37 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-08-2015, 12:49 PM by Shemaya.)
#48
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 11:59 AM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:  
(10-08-2015, 11:52 AM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote:  No one here on Earth is qualified to be making any judgments about the worthiness of our other-selves.  The Veil and our inability to comprehend simultaneous infinity both make it impossible.

Well idk about that, I am on earth and believe and feel within myself that all are worthy. That no being nor action ever is lacking of love, glory and beauty.

I guess in a way it is linked to faith, but in higher states of mind I do concretely perceive every being/action as Love and Light. I find it all glorious and beautiful, whatever the color of it.

Totally agree with you ETM, all are worthy, every being.

Not so for every action.  Some actions occur due to disconnection from Love and Light, specifically from omission of the green Ray aspect of love and light. 

Since we are in a time of 4D,  we are called not to judge but to discern what is true and what is false.  Do you think omitting the green Ray expresses the full truth of your being?  I don't think so.  I think my true self is expressed in a full spectrum of light, if I omit green, I don't express my true self. Does that make sense?
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10-08-2015, 12:39 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-08-2015, 12:55 PM by APeacefulWarrior.)
#49
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
No, Shemaya.  I would ignore it if I didn't care about you.

What you are saying -your description of STO and Unity and the Creator- is almost completely in disagreement with what Ra has told us about these matters.  And every time I've posted a quote from Ra that is at variance with your thoughts, you've basically disregarded it. You have every right to your own thoughts, and your own truths, but couldn't you at least recognize that they're much different from Ra's thoughts about these things?

Ra spoke of 4D entities so devoted to Love of All and service-to-others that they accept enslavement by negative entities, rather than refuse service.  Yeshua -one of the most Positively-polarized humans to ever walk the Earth- led a life devoted to peaceful coexistence and went quietly to his death rather than fight back against his oppressors.  According to Biblical accounts, when a disciple attacked a guard that came to take Yeshua away, he told the disciple to stop and then healed the guard so the guard could continue in his mission.

These are some of the examples Ra has held up of what a strong STO polarization entails.  I simply cannot reconcile it with your thoughts of wrath and anger and the removal of aspects of Intelligent Infinity that you disagree with.

I'll just repeat this again, and then I'll stop responding to you if that's what you truly desire:

Quote:In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.

Time will tell.  It always does.
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10-08-2015, 12:42 PM,
#50
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 12:37 PM)Shemaya Wrote:  
(10-08-2015, 11:59 AM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:  
(10-08-2015, 11:52 AM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote:  No one here on Earth is qualified to be making any judgments about the worthiness of our other-selves.  The Veil and our inability to comprehend simultaneous infinity both make it impossible.

Well idk about that, I am on earth and believe and feel within myself that all are worthy. That no being nor action ever is lacking of love, glory and beauty.

I guess in a way it is linked to faith, but in higher states of mind I do concretely perceive every being/action as Love and Light. I find it all glorious and beautiful, whatever the color of it.

Totally agree with you ETM, all are worthy, every being.

Not so for every action.  Some actions occur due to disconnection from Love and Light, specifically from omission of the green Ray aspect of love and light.

Since we are in a time of 4D,  we are called not to judge but to discern what is true and what is false.  Does that make sense?

Yeah but 4D STS is equally good as 4D STO in my eyes.

I also do see love in those that close up their green rays. Rather than perceiving it is closed, one could ask what cause and effect create this fate.

I also do believe many-ness is the exploration of infinity into which all is explored. As such I do think it is sought to be explored for if it was not, the Creator could not know Himself.

In the simultaneous nature of time, I do believe it is first sought and then accepted. This includes all that is.

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10-08-2015, 12:54 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-08-2015, 12:54 PM by APeacefulWarrior.)
#51
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 12:42 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:  Yeah but 4D STS is equally good as 4D STO in my eyes.

I also do see love in those that close up their green rays. Rather than perceiving it is closed, one could ask what cause and effect create this fate.

I also do believe many-ness is the exploration of infinity into which all is explored. As such I do think it is sought to be explored for if it was not, the Creator could not know Himself.

In the simultaneous nature of time, I do believe it is first sought and then accepted. This includes all that is.

It reminds me of something Bashar says in his talks. The Creator loves us so much that he allows entities to believe he doesn't exist, if they choose, so that both we and the Creator can experience what results and learn from it.

All who create Teaching\Learning opportunities are ultimately helping Intelligent Infinity grow ever greater, no matter their path. For that, they are Loved.

Time will tell.  It always does.
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10-08-2015, 12:57 PM,
#52
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 12:42 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:  
(10-08-2015, 12:37 PM)Shemaya Wrote:  
(10-08-2015, 11:59 AM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:  
(10-08-2015, 11:52 AM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote:  No one here on Earth is qualified to be making any judgments about the worthiness of our other-selves.  The Veil and our inability to comprehend simultaneous infinity both make it impossible.

Well idk about that, I am on earth and believe and feel within myself that all are worthy. That no being nor action ever is lacking of love, glory and beauty.

I guess in a way it is linked to faith, but in higher states of mind I do concretely perceive every being/action as Love and Light. I find it all glorious and beautiful, whatever the color of it.

Totally agree with you ETM, all are worthy, every being.

Not so for every action.  Some actions occur due to disconnection from Love and Light, specifically from omission of the green Ray aspect of love and light.

Since we are in a time of 4D,  we are called not to judge but to discern what is true and what is false.  Does that make sense?

Yeah but 4D STS is equally good as 4D STO in my eyes

I also do see love in those that close up their green rays. Rather than perceiving it is closed, one could ask what cause and effect create this fate.

That is well and good. You are seeing their true being with love.  And absolutely, there is a lot of cause and effect, a lot of trauma and control and manipulation cause some to follow that path and be deceived. 

What I am saying is that at this time, as we transition to 4D positive, it is time to discern the truth and embrace it and reject what is false.[/quote]
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10-08-2015, 01:12 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-08-2015, 01:17 PM by Elros.)
#53
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
I believe I have said all I had to say on this matter.

To better explain my perspective of things I will add that part of my awakening was to remember that I have evolved across all negative densities and I have serious doubts I have ever explored positive ones. When contemplating the idea of my repolarization, my heart was torn into pieces upon the thought that I was leaving behind what had always been my home and all those that I have ever loved. I felt like I was forsaking so many, some of them who feel betrayed and others who are happy the mirror that I was to them moves on somewhere else. I also felt that I have outdone my need of those polarized densities and that they no longer serve purpose in my growth. I believe for a long time I have tried to be of service to others in STS densities among those no one try to be of service of. (not entirely true but a love that understands not can only be rejected)

In my case repolarizing toward STO densities feels like the greatest STS act I can do.

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10-08-2015, 01:20 PM,
#54
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
Interesting, Elros! Maybe you were one of the 4Ds Ra referred to that voluntarily allowed themselves to turn Negative specifically for the service opportunities it presented.

Personally, I know very little about my existences prior to this incarnation. My awakening was philosophical, not historical. In fact, for a long time I've had a very strong feeling that I'm supposed to have forgotten, and I just have no real inclination to dig into it. Whatever I used to be, I'll find out again eventually. Sometimes I suspect this means I was either Really Good or Really Bad (so to speak) in past incarnations. I could see it being either. Or maybe even both.

In the meantime, I think one reason I'm here in this life is specifically to figure out who I am now without regard to past choices.

Time will tell.  It always does.
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Steppingfeet
10-08-2015, 01:36 PM,
#55
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 01:20 PM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote:  Interesting, Elros!  Maybe you were one of the 4Ds Ra referred to that voluntarily allowed themselves to turn Negative specifically for the service opportunities it presented.

Personally, I know very little about my existences prior to this incarnation.  My awakening was philosophical, not historical.  In fact, for a long time I've had a very strong feeling that I'm supposed to have forgotten, and I just have no real inclination to dig into it.  Whatever I used to be, I'll find out again eventually.  Sometimes I suspect this means I was either Really Good or Really Bad (so to speak) in past incarnations.  I could see it being either.  Or maybe even both.

In the meantime, I think one reason I'm here in this life is specifically to figure out who I am now without regard to past choices.

Last part is very true, I have no desires within myself to become STS again. The veil is a wonderful tool to figure what you truly desire.

Digging into feelings is how I remember, I don't feel so many things toward my life on this planet but have channeled strong and deep rooted emotions from within my soul toward things that have nothing to do with this place.

Ra for example is one I have found within myself deep love and hatred for. Hatred seemed to be related to mutual misunderstandings across the two paths and that his light and love has hurt so many I have known across time. Like I said, STO is negative to STS. The light makes darkness apparent and  darkness makes light brigther.

In my view the two paths are nothing but mirrors unto one another.

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10-08-2015, 01:49 PM,
#56
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 12:39 PM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote:  No, Shemaya.  I would ignore it if I didn't care about you.

What you are saying -your description of STO and Unity and the Creator- is almost completely in disagreement with what Ra has told us about these matters.  And every time I've posted a quote from Ra that is at variance with your thoughts, you've basically disregarded it.  You have every right to your own thoughts, and your own truths, but couldn't you at least recognize that they're much different from Ra's thoughts about these things?

Well I perceive it differently. 

Quote:Ra spoke of 4D entities so devoted to Love of All and service-to-others that they accept enslavement by negative entities, rather than refuse service.

Actually, Ra said the opposite.  If I find the quote, maybe I will post it.



 
Quote:Yeshua -one of the most Positively-polarized humans to ever walk the Earth- led a life devoted to peaceful coexistence and went quietly to his death rather than fight back against his oppressors.  According to Biblical accounts, when a disciple attacked a guard that came to take Yeshua away, he told the disciple to stop and then healed the guard so the guard could continue in his mission.

 Those were different times.  Way showers were highly likely to be murdered for speaking the truth at the time of Jesus.  Now we have a bit more freedom to speak truth without fear of being killed.

 We are now transitioning to 4D which entails a separation.  And Ra specifically said there may be some depolarization during this struggle.  If that means some people have to stand up to their oppressors , in a spirit of righteous anger, I hope they do so. 


Quote:These are some of the examples Ra has held up of what a strong STO polarization entails.  I simply cannot reconcile it with your thoughts of wrath and anger and the removal of aspects of Intelligent Infinity that you disagree with.


 I did not say "removal of aspects that I disagree with". I am calling for discernment between truth and falsity. I am recognizing that we are in a transition, a shift in density from 3D to 4D. As we shift in density, there is a separation between 4d positive and 4D negative. I am advocating for that separation, that's all. 

Personally, I think we have some responsibility for that separation.  We can do work in consciousness, or stand up to oppressors, or help the homeless.  There are many things we can do to assist the transition to 4D positive.








[/quote]
  
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10-08-2015, 02:37 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-08-2015, 02:57 PM by APeacefulWarrior.)
#57
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 01:49 PM)Shemaya Wrote:  
(10-08-2015, 12:39 PM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote:  No, Shemaya.  I would ignore it if I didn't care about you.

What you are saying -your description of STO and Unity and the Creator- is almost completely in disagreement with what Ra has told us about these matters.  And every time I've posted a quote from Ra that is at variance with your thoughts, you've basically disregarded it.  You have every right to your own thoughts, and your own truths, but couldn't you at least recognize that they're much different from Ra's thoughts about these things?

Well I perceive it differently. 


OK, you say this, but you've been unable or unwilling to concretely explain how / why you perceive it differently.  Nowhere in the Ra Materials does Ra speak of the Creator EVER rejecting any aspect of Creation, nor of being directly Wrathful (or any synonym) towards any part of it.  

Ra said that there is no objective Right or Wrong, yet you continually speak of True and False as though they are objectively concrete things.   Truths and falsehoods are subjective, not objective. Both polarities are equally sincere in their desire to share their versions of the truth, and to bring other entities over to their way of thinking.

I give you examples of STO entities practicing non-violence and embracing total love, but you say you hope people "stand up to their oppressors in a spirit of righteous anger" and suggest that they should allow themselves to de-polarize for the sake of this struggle you hope to see. You're saying you want people to be less loving for the sake of your goals.

Ra speaks of Unity being EVERYTHING, full stop, without exception.  You advocate for forcible separation even though separation is a distortion.  And remember, this discussion started with the question of what 6D/7D Unity entails, and you rejected the idea that Unity involves the embrace and blending of both polarities. Now you're arguing for a separation which seems to be the exact opposite of Unity.



Do you truly not understand why I'm unable to reconcile your ideas with those Ra has advanced?



In truth, the only passage I can find which even sort of agrees with anything you are saying is 25.9.  And that entire session is largely a discussion of why battles between STO and STS are basically fruitless efforts which neither side can actually "win," with minimal benefits of any sort. (Aside from the Teaching\Learning that occurs, since there are no mistakes.)

Fight this struggle if you really feel you must, but please at least recognize that higher-density entities don't fight.  Even the Negatives. Direct conflict is not inevitable, and there are always alternatives.  While your path is not mine, and I support your right to grow and learn however you see fit, I still respectfully suggest that a more Loving and accepting approach to the Unity of creation would more efficiently move you along the STO path you seek to embrace.

Either way, I'm going to bed now.  Peace.

Time will tell.  It always does.
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Elros
10-08-2015, 02:52 PM,
#58
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
Truth is subjective. Interesting.

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10-08-2015, 03:04 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-08-2015, 03:16 PM by Shemaya.)
#59
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 02:52 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote:  Truth is subjective. Interesting.

It is interesting to me too IGW.  I think truth just is.  I think it may be perceived from different angles and viewpoints, but I would wholeheartedly disagree with the statement, "Truth is subjective."

APeacefulWarrior, I will respectfully bow out of this conversation.  I disagreed with you earlier in the thread and I still disagree with you. 

However I want to defend my point of view without lengthy explanation.

Quote: Nowhere in the Ra Materials does Ra speak of the Creator EVER rejecting any aspect of Creation, nor of being directly Wrathful (or any synonym) towards any part of it. 

That might be true about Ra.  However, you have misconstrued what I have said. 

Quote:Ra said that there is no objective Right or Wrong, yet you continually speak of True and False as though they are objectively concrete things.   Truths and falsehoods are subjective, not objective. Both polarities are equally sincere in their desire to share their versions of the truth, and to bring other entities over to their way of thinking.

Well, I think truth is absolute, so we disagree. 

Quote:I give you examples of STO entities practicing non-violence and embracing total love, but you say you hope people "stand up to their oppressors in a spirit of righteous anger" and suggest that they should allow themselves to de-polarize for the sake of this struggle you hope to see. You're saying you want people to be less loving for the sake of your goals.

All I want to see is a New Earth free of oppression and violence, a 4D positive earth.  Don't you?

Quote:Ra speaks of Unity being EVERYTHING, full stop, without exception.  You advocate for forcible separation even though separation is a distortion.  And remember, this discussion started with the question of what 6D/7D Unity entails, and you rejected the idea that Unity involves the embrace and blending of both polarities. Now you're arguing for a separation which seems to be the exact opposite of Unity.

I think the discussion was "good works for the right reasons", so we are bit off at this point.  I said nothing about "forcible separation".  You have kind of misconstrued what I've said, and are not understanding my point of view, so I will bow out of this conversation between you and I.
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10-09-2015, 03:27 AM,
#60
RE: "good works for the wrong reasons"
(10-08-2015, 03:04 PM)Shemaya Wrote:  
(10-08-2015, 02:52 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote:  Truth is subjective. Interesting.

It is interesting to me too IGW.  I think truth just is.  I think it may be perceived from different angles and viewpoints, but I would wholeheartedly disagree with the statement, "Truth is subjective."

How would you define truth?

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