2006.01.01 'Failure' of the plan that this logos chose

[Joseph326]

Perhaps it would be helpful to view the so-called 'failure' as a much more advanced and efficient way for the Creator to experience itself.

Has one ever taken what had appeared to be a 'shortcut', only to find that it ended abruptly or took longer than intended? The known route would have to be rejoined eventually or traced back, but would it not be possible to return to that path having gained valuable knowledge and experience unique to the 'shortcut' taken? Thus the so-called negative individual may provide additional experience and, therefore, wisdom for itself (the Creator) and the so-called positive individual may be provided with much more efficient catalyst for its journey in experiencing love and compassion for other-selves (the Creator).

Of course, the more complex the roads get, the more wearying they can be. If we had eternity in which to travel the roads we create, would we not naturally progress through increasing complexity instead of choosing not to grow?

[lightning]

I find that I agree with Ali on the non-causality of experience. Causality is an illusion that constitutes the fabric of what Ra refers to as the veil. Ra speaks of space/time as being an illusion, and it is because it's related to the dynamic of force. Synchronicity is the primary means for 3rd density to glimpse beyond the veil. An example would be that you think of someone you haven't seen in years, 5 minutes later you find a photo of this person in the bottom of a drawer where you were looking for something else, and then a few minutes later this person calls unexpectedly. These events have no causal relationship between them, yet they are all clearly related. This is glimpsing beyond the 3d veil and reflects the true nature of reality which is that mind or will is the creator. We are all mini-versions of the Creator in that experience comes from the will and what is held in mind. Within 3d, the ego is what must be transcended to contact intelligent infinity. In doing this, the forgetting is finished. "Remembering" is not only about remembering events, etc., it's about claiming our true heritage. Both faith and love serve to dismantle 3d because both of these things require one to step beyond the confines of 3d. In time/space, which lies outside the illusion, there is no causality in the sense that "this makes that happen". I'm not trying to come across as an authority here. Each person's path is different, and what is profound to me might seem meaningless to someone else. However, what has helped me immensely in making progress in penetrating the veil has been to find and dedicate myself to one of the many pathways of spiritual discipline. Ra was right when he said there is resistance at the point of breakthrough, or something like that. In my most humble opinion, the LOO material is wonderful and informative beyone anything else I've ever been exposed to. Nonetheless, it is somewhat short on technique. I know the reason is that Ra doesn't want to violate the "Law of Confusion" and I understand that, but it takes a concerted application of the will and the transcending of a multitude of obstacles to break through the veil. For us on earth, is it possible that this veil was somewhat more intense than was intended? If so, then I suppose it could have come from the logos. If so, then my guess would be that it would be the "Sun" logos rather than the logos of our galaxy. My understanding is that each logos sort of refines or individualizes experience in a way that is slightly unique, and that apparently applies to each sub=logos or star as well. In other words, the milky way logos would somewhat individualize experience for the entire galaxy, but this individualization would also apply to the sub-logoi. That was confusing to me in the material in numerous instances where I didn't know when Ra referred to Logos whether Ra meant the galaxy or the sun. An example of that would be when Ra said it is not known why the logos chose the "second-density apes to invest" with 3d consciousness. Surely that didn't mean that all 3d life in our galaxy evolved from apes, or did it?
That's my sermon for the day. I love you all.
PEACE

[Pablísimo]

Hi everyone,

While doing some research into Reiki today, I stumbled across this transcript:

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0528.aspx

Check out the first two pages...this is a very interesting read... and I believe quite relevant for this discussion.

It contrasts the lighter veiling experienced by Ra on Venus with our own heavier veiling and more challenging 3D environment. Apparently the easier time they had in 3D caused greater difficulties to manifest in 5D. Some detail is given on the benefits of this particular combination of free will and heavy veiling that we walk through now.

This validated my subtle feeling that there is a greater purpose for our struggles here, despite sometimes it seeming inordinately difficult. To me at least, this existence is indeed a gift.

Love to all

[unity100]

well i drew heavily from the idea in that session you linked. it was kinda the final straw on a train of thought for me.

[airwaves]

There is another channeling, that I cannot find atm, the more I try the more I wonder if it was not a dream. Anyway they spoke of the creating of this 3d experience, the combining of mars and company into this planetary influence, and how we came to be in these "modified great ape bodies". They spoke to the effect that by modifying the great ape bodies for us, they gave us a "better than" mentality. This effect has been, in their and my own opinion, very catastrophic for our experience in 3d. Imagine our dear earth without such a mentality.

Sad(or maybe not) story that is true. I came across this about a year ago. I read it through twice, and the entire time I had a Very hearty laugh at the expense of Ra and company. I found it funny that entities of such an advanced nature could "mess up" in such a way, and I found there "mistakes" unbelievably predictable. The whole story was very predictable, almost as if I had been there. I wonder at times, if I was not laughing at myself. Either way, Lol, whats done is done.

I also found it very endearing that they shared such a "personal" story with us and in such detail about the process of creating and maintaining a 3d experience. Many many many laughs were had.

When I stumble upon the session i shall link it.

Until then L/L

[unity100]

My understanding is that, it wasnt Ra and their fellow graduates (who graduated from 3d in similar times) that screwed up. It is whomever that came up with the 'heavier veil so that we can prepare entities to 6d time/space conditions when they are in 3d' idea.

[airwaves]

My understanding is that, it wasnt Ra and their fellow graduates (who graduated from 3d in similar times) that screwed up. It is whomever that came up with the 'heavier veil so that we can prepare entities to 6d time/space conditions when they are in 3d' idea.

To say the least dear friend, I have slept since then.

Ra and company

That may indeed be the only part that Ra played. As has been discussed in detail before, there is always that sticky substance in this experience called distortion.

And as mentioned before, I shall do my best to dig up this session if it indeed exists and was not a very lucid dream of mine. Most if not all of the seekers here would find it a very interesting read and more over quite entertaining and enlightening. As Ali once quoted from a source that do not know of "Laughter is often the first reaction to recognition of great truth."

Edit: For your viewing pleasure http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0321.aspx

[unity100]

Ra and company

That may indeed be the only part that Ra played. As has been discussed in detail before, there is always that sticky substance in this experience called distortion.

with Ra and company, i mean those who graduated during the time of light veil, with the aid from higher densities through pyramid structures or systems like tarot.

probably very bunch which came to aid this world through pyramid teaching in atlantis, egypt and etc.

And as mentioned before, I shall do my best to dig up this session if it indeed exists and was not a very lucid dream of mine. Most if not all of the seekers here would find it a very interesting read and more over quite entertaining and enlightening. As Ali once quoted from a source that do not know of "Laughter is often the first reaction to recognition of great truth."

Edit: For your viewing pleasure http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0321.aspx

now now. this is an interesting bit.

this channeling seems to be describing the yahweh, yehovah event and their annunaki issue, that Ra spoke about. it is quite interesting.

but, an identification seems to be wrong :

quo sees the problem in the improved ape body. however, technically, not the improvedness of the ape body, but, that ape body being in minority and better than the contemporary, and majority ape bodies, was probably the factor in creating the 'privileged', 'special' biases in the entities that incarnated in those ape bodies.

had all ape bodies been sufficiently advanced, there would be no means to create that bias.

but then again, there is an important factor - you bring and mix a late 3rd density soul population, with entities that are going towards the end of 2d.

even if there wasnt any particular difference in ape bodies, the souls from late 3d, would notice and get estranged from entities in late 2d even in soul level.

firstly, rightfully, because late 2d would be much more coarse and unrefined in regard to behavior, wouldnt be as sensitive as a late 3d entity in regard to other entities (in any level, not necessarily love), and this would create irritation and estrangement in 3d entities that were being irritated or harmed by their behavior.

second, they would get estranged because they were, as souls, from another planet. they would have different traits as a soul population, they would also know that they are from somewhere else in a soul level, deep down.

thus, the estrangement would happen even if the bodies were same, even if much less.

firstly the error in this solar locale, is the error of implementing a strong veil. when you separate the entity from the influxes and flows of the creation at a given locale, you cant expect them to work well with them and evolve in whatever evolutionary possibilities that are available to them in that locale. it is unwise.

second seems to be the error of yahweh in bringing the population from mars, and carefreely mixing them with the resident late 2d population. that population should have been isolated. ra said isolation was possible in the 2nd cycle, despite not being possible in the last cycle. (in the subject of 250 people who graduated in the last cycle). that means, for first 50,000 years of this last 75,000 years, isolation was possible. thus, that population should be isolated, the rest of the population should have completed their 2d cycle and graduated, and all ape bodies upgraded with the new body before all being mixed. within this time, the mars population would have found the possibility of engaging in wars in between them, to learn and get rid of their violent nature too. also, no technology should have been given to them until they were free of those biases.

in the current situation, not only they gained those biases, but also embroiled whole world with war, even after the heavy quarantine, and even after atlantis escapade. they just herded the earth native (or immigrant) population into war under them. at this point the violent and chaotic history of ancient middle east comes to mind ...

but i also noticed one very important bit in that session :

Those who do not choose to graduate will necessarily fall back to the instincts to late second density as they prepare to start another third-density cycle elsewhere.

this, may explain the orange tint on this planet, and increasing orange ray related manifestations. i think this is very, very, very important for all of us to keep always in mind in these coming few years.

---

Another reason of the failure on this planet is, as far as i see, the below, despite it seems to be a sub result of the heavy veiling :

The philosophy, understanding, concept of 'everything is one', 'god is one', have no place in 3d. It is not compatible with it.

Imagine you are a new or midway 3d entity. You are either fresh out of 2d, and its herd consciousness, and you are only realizing that there exist other entities outside you, you are an entity yourself, and everything is not an extension of your own self.

Then, someone comes with a philosophy of 'everything is one, god is one etc, and love each other because you are one'.

regardless of how you are compelled/coerced to do that, how can you actually manifest that consciousness ?

loving everything, accepting everything in unison because everything is unified, in unison, may be the understanding and practice of 6d. but, how do you manifest it in 3d, as a 3d entity ? you are expected to love everything, because everything is one. there is a casualization, a rationale, a reason-decision relationship in the proposition in the first place.

it is impossible for you to right away connect to intelligent infinity through the 6d, and then manifest that understanding as a newly 3d entity. unless you are helped through different means, however that is another matter.

so, what can you do ?

lets see, it says everything is one, everything is in unison. what is the closes thing to this that you know, as a consciousness ?

2d herd consciousness. therefore, you easily slide back to that consciousness, and reflect the understanding of the herd and 2d, on the philosophy you are facing, and its peripheral ideas. everything is one, everyone is one, and therefore you need to love everything.

naturally, all the corollaries of the herd consciousness will reflect on this ; herd requires you to conform with the herd, herd doesnt like anyone behaving differently and sticking out, herd doesnt like what's outside the herd. this way, all the social interactions naturally get tied to herd behavior. and this, as you probably already experience, creates all kinds of problems we see on the world, related to application of orange ray on every kind of feeling, concept and idea, ranging from politics to love in between spouses, or family, leave aside religion.

there is another concept. there is the talk of a god, which is that everything that is one. it is a singular entity. what kind of thing is that ? is it possible for a new 3d entity to be able to realize and manifest an understanding of a unison, acting in a harmony like almost one being, but actually being comprised of infinite aspects ?

hardly. naturally the entity will again fall back to what it knows as closest to this understanding, and for this particular planet this will probably be the herd leader that dominates and decides what happens in the herd. as the herd consciousness on this planet happens to be with the dominance of strongest male, the one god that is so perceived takes on the traits of a powerful patriarch. the powerful part is very significant, since it carries various understandings of the herd into the religion as such. god almighty, god great, and so on.

and the immediate consequences of these in social life, is maintaining of the herd consciousness, and as per the herd consciousness, strongest member of the herd dominating the society by its aides that are lesser dominators in themselves. politically, socially, or spiritually.

.......................

now we have an interesting parallel here. after the veiling, and cutting of 3d entities from subconscious, and oneness of everything, entities have aided Ra and other various societies through the veil, by using various teachings, channelings, methods, structures (pyramids) and so on.

because the veil was rather thin, these methods were successful, and entities were able to contact intelligent infinity, manifest an understanding of 6d, and therefore realize how an infinite unity of infinite numbers of finite individuals could happen. therefore, it was possible for them to perceive or glimpse the 6d understanding, and therefore practice loving each other, accepting each other without falling back to herd consciousness.

then, these groups have thought that they could also help the earth population through the same means. however, there was a difference at this point - veil was heavier, and therefore contacting infinite intelligence was harder, even if pyramids, techniques, contraptions were used.

thus, apparently despite all the effort, they were able to only make some of the population contact infinity through these methods, and these entities were expected to teach the others. however, this was even harder for them, for they were 3d entities living under a heavy veil. therefore, the teaching became more oriented on idea part of the method, rather than having equal emphasis in between the actual infinity contact and idea. thus, this in a fashion aided the creation of a teacher/priest caste, which deteriorated in an ongoing fashion as time went on and teachings were distorted/faded due to initial teachers being out of the way, and aided the advent of organized religions.

therefore, we reach the same conclusion again :

understanding, practices, methods, and manifestation of 6d, has no place in 3d. hampering 3d through artificial measures (veil) and then trying to remedy it through bringing in the understandings and practices of higher densities (6d in this case) creates problems in other ways. you patch up one problem, others come up.

this gives us a very important lesson ; if you hamper the natural flow of energies, creation in any way, there will be problems. if you patch a problem, the problem will shift, and become some other problem. it is inevitable.

...................

3d is the density of 'there are others than me'. and it should be experienced and lived as such. higher density understandings and practices have no business in 3d. 3d is a density in which the entities will experience various joys and interactions in between themselves, in alignment with their own energy flows from the roots of their own mind, and the influxes from their higher self at that point in time. complex ideas, thoughts, practices, higher density learning, is not required or should be in 3d. just like we are not trying to educate 2d entities with the philosophy and understanding of 6d, or 4d, we shouldnt try to first hamper the 3d entities, and then try to circumvent that fence with the higher density teachings. 3d entities should have access to as much technology as they need to be relatively independent of the rigors and dangers of 2d (there 'having to be danger in 2d' is also questionable and another long topic in itself - had the 2d not been as vile and dangerous as they are on the planet we know and some others, there would be no need for technology), but they should not have access to phenomenonal technology that can destroy their planet, or themselves en masse. just like how you dont give a shotgun to the hand of a 9 year old in the park, and expect it to be mature enough not to shoot its fellows playing in the park.

[unity100]

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=42&ss=1#5

42.5 Questioner: In the last session you made the statement that “We, that is Ra, spent much time/space in the fifth-density balancing the intense compassion that we had gained in the fourth-density.” Could you expand on this concept with respect to the material you just discussed?

Ra: I am Ra. The fourth-density, as we have said, abounds in compassion. This compassion is folly when seen through the eyes of wisdom. It is the salvation of third-density but creates a mismatch in the ultimate balance of the entity.

more pointers to the flaw of this veil/positive/negative business.

leave aside the general balance distortion issues, even Ra, a group which had (and probably still has) huge compassion, love, and therefore the accompanying enduring power (in regard to various pains, torment) as their consequence, says the 'salvation' of 3d is love.

an entire density, 3d, a main color ray, is something that the entities seek salvation from, in this veil business. it is not some density you will experience just like the other ones. enjoy it as any aspect, but, you need salvation from. you dont need salvation from any other density, but this. and coincidentally, after the veil, this is the shortest density, a blink of an eye. too condensed. which means that, progressive flow of the creation is so distorted, squeezed there. not natural.

it might be that it is actually not the failure of the plan of this logos, but, a more general, grand failure galaxy wide in regard to understanding the balance-distorting, unnaturalness of the concept of veil.

[βαθμιαίος]

you dont need salvation from any other density

Of course you do.

Awareness is the salvation of first density.
Self-awareness is the salvation of second density.
Love is the salvation of third density.
Wisdom is the salvation of fourth density.
Unity is the salvation of fifth density.
Foreverness is the salvation of sixth density.

[unity100]

are there any other densities for which the word 'salvation' is used in Ra material ?

[βαθμιαίος]

are there any other densities for which the word 'salvation' is used in Ra material ?

The quote you cited seems to be the only use of the word salvation in the Ra material: http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?sea...=salvation

[unity100]

thats why i have quoted it. i havent seen it used for any densities. moreover, you found out that it is not used for anything else. ra, which repeatedly advices to take whatever catalyst that comes at their proper level, accept and progress, while taking joy in each moment of existence, uses the word salvation, only once, and only for 3rd density.

when viewed like this, 3d sounds like a density from which entities are rightful to want to get out of. which, shouldnt be.

[βαθμιαίος]

when viewed like this, 3d sounds like a density from which entities are rightful to want to get out of. which, shouldnt be.

Well, we are at the very end of third density. It's not surprising that some of us are ready to get out. I'm sure my cat is just about sick of second density, too. Ra themselves are eagerly looking forward to their harvest from sixth density.

[unity100]

that is not what i meant. what i mean is, when combined with all the other pointers and scattered bits of info, (in this thread, and some of what was discussed in others) this adds up on top of them.

in actuality each density should be an experience in which the excitement and desire of manifestation draws the spirits of the entities fully into the body, with spirit's own desire. if as such, each density would be densities of seeking, and towards end of each, the entities would manifest desire and impatience for the next density/understanding to come. but, that wouldnt make them regress or get tired of the activities and manifestation of their density - instead, it would make them want to manifest even more.

however we have the 'salvation' concept for third density as it has been arranged in this logos, and some other logoi. to an extent, we probably have a similar salvation desire, in the 3d of other logoi that employ a lighter veil, proportional to the heaviness of their veil. entities seek to get out, instead to fully manifest in that density. and i think that that is fundamentally wrong.

[βαθμιαίος]

however we have the 'salvation' concept for third density as it has been arranged in this logos, and some other logoi. to an extent, we probably have a similar salvation desire, in the 3d of other logoi that employ a lighter veil, proportional to the heaviness of their veil. entities seek to get out, instead to fully manifest in that density. and i think that that is fundamentally wrong.

I think you may be reading too much into Ra's use of the word salvation. Just because they didn't use it with respect to other densities doesn't mean they couldn't have. See my post above: each density seeks (and is saved by) the lesson of the next density.

[unity100]

That is not just Ra. in spiritual literature ages past and modern, the same kind of approach and outlook towards 3d passes on and on.

[βαθμιαίος]

I have to confess that I haven't read this thread up until your initial post about salvation. Would you care to summarize your current thinking on the issue, in light of all the replies you have gotten?

[unity100]

summarizing this thread in a short post would be impossible. you will find that there are more pointers discussed in this thread, to which the salvation word usage only adds up as a minor additional pointer.

[βαθμιαίος]

I didn't ask you to summarize the thread, just your current thinking.

[unity100]

current thinking on what ? the current bit you have responded to is the follow up to the entire topic of the thread. that is why it is posted in here.

[βαθμιαίος]

Current thinking on the subject of the thread.

[unity100]

you are asking me what i currently think, on the subject of the thread ? i am thinking no more different than what i posted in the first post of this thread.

[βαθμιαίος]

First post says that you think our sub-Logos's plan has been a failure and quotes a question/answer from Q'uo that mentions Mars and Maldek. So you think the fact that third density on two planets in our solar system ended in uninhabitable planets because of warfare indicates that the sun's plan is a failure?

[unity100]

βαθμιαίος , what are you asking , is basically what i have detailed in numerous pages of this thread. i dont see the purpose of your posing this question to me, again, whereas i have already responded to such and more detailed questions, and also pointed you in the direction of them. they are in the first two pages of the thread.

[βαθμιαίος]

OK, I'll go back and read the earlier pages.

[unity100]

That would be much efficient, since the posts there have many intrinsic details which all tie up to each other. just like how the 'salvation' observation would stand in thin air if it presented by itself, any would stand in thin air and look irrelevant when summarized brutally. In the post i have prepared and followed up later, scattered puzzle pieces all point to a conclusion the way i see it.

---

in addition, i will soon sleep, and i may not be able to answer any post that requires my reply until tomorrow.

[βαθμιαίος]

OK, I made it up through the end of page two. Comments so far:

First of all, I think Ra has addressed your idea that the logos's plan is a failure in a couple of quotes. They certainly don't disagree that logoi can have plans that fail:

Ra: I am Ra. There were many experiments whereby various of the functions or distortions of the body complex were veiled and others not. A large number of these experiments resulted in nonviable body complexes or those only marginally viable. For instance, it is not a survival-oriented mechanism for the nerve receptors to blank out unconsciously any distortions towards pain.

But they seem to think that the plan has been successful in reaching its goals:

76.17 Questioner: Is this third-density choice the same throughout all of the creation of which you are aware?

Ra: I am Ra. We are aware of creations in which third density is lengthier and more space/time is given to the choosing. However, the proportions remain the same, the dimensions all being somewhat etiolated and weakened by the Logos to have a variant experience of the Creator. This creation is seen by us to be quite vivid.

76.18 Questioner: I didn’t understand what you meant by what you said “as seen by you to be quite vivid.” What did you mean?

Ra: I am Ra. This creation is somewhat more condensed by its Logos than some other Logoi have chosen. Thus each experience of the Creator by the Creator in this system of distortions is, relatively speaking, more bright or, as we said, vivid.

Comments about specific statements:

imagine - they destroyed a planet here (maldek). they have come here, and then created another catastrophe. (atlantis).

Ra doesn't say that the negative polarity destroyed Maldek or created the Atlantean catastrophe.

yet, here we are today in this state, with not much development in regard to state of physical social existence. even more, some minority elite is still trying, sometimes effectively, to control and kill anything that bars them. (acta treaty, network neutrality attack to make internet a cable network to control it). im not even touching the subject of nuclear weapons and whatnot, and the still existing potential danger of some 0.001% or less of world population trying to invoke a nuclear holocaust by aggression.

if 'free will' prevails, and some buttons are pressed by some few (maybe not even more than a few thousand) entities around the world, 7 billion or more souls will need to be rescued so that their souls will not get destroyed in the ensuing nuclear blasts.

And yet, here we still are, with free will. The greater earth changes have not happened so far; the global guerilla war against communism and/or fascism has not entirely erupted; we're still bumbling along.

if you remember what Ra answered to don's query about the distribution of the population density of different densities, in this galaxy we have a huge lack of higher frequency vibrations in higher frequency planes. whereas we have an extreme amount of 2d vibrations and worlds.

16.25 Questioner: Can you tell me what percentage of those are third, fourth, fifth, sixth etc., density?

Ra: I am Ra. A percentage seventeen for first density, a percentage twenty for second density, a percentage twenty-seven for third density, a percentage sixteen for fourth density, a percentage six for fifth density. The other information must be withheld.

Second density is 20%, not "an extreme amount."

BTW, 17 + 20 + 27 + 16 + 6 = 86, so 14% is unaccounted for.

Also, note that there was a sentence omitted from this answer in the published books. You can find it in the version from the relistening project.

the attempts of Ra and others to teach 'Law of One' seems increasingly illogical and unwise, and even naive in that light :

....

i cant come to terms and agree/unify with this current sun, when i look to it at all. we agree on the level of being one, yet, we are total disagreement about methods. it repels me.

Ra readily admits that they are naive. I wonder if your issue isn't more with Ra and other entities who have attempted to help than it is with the sun.

i mean, veiling any density is like veiling one of your chakras. can you expect to function normally entirety of your solar plexus was taken out, spiritually or physically ? no.

Veiling third density isn't taking it out.

So why is there discontent for the situation one is in when there is suffering and a cloudy view? is this not the creator knowing itself?

I agree.

it is quite simple actually - because, you are not 'the creator'. you are a PART of the infinity that you call creator. therefore, if you are put under load over the level which you cant handle, either as in the size of the load or duration of the load, you suffer.

Actually, you are the Creator in its entirety, right now. The illusion is that you are not.

moreover, by locking this many high level wanderers to a 3d density behind a veil, we have greatly reduced the strength of 4 to 6th chakras of the galaxy (hopefully not entire universe), and therefore did a disservice by not being in a place which we, by nature, tailored/fit to be.

the extreme amounts of 4 to 6th energy channeled here, is extreme amounts of 4th to 6th energy that other parts of this galaxy, or creation is not able to receive.

Possibly, but we don't really know what percentage of the light strength of 4th through 6th densities is here at the moment.

only if you return to total 'nothingness', you become infinite, and hence, perfect.

There never was total nothingness. "The first known thing in creation is infinity."

Ra Session 13 of the Law of One January 29, 1981

It shall be understood that any portion, no matter how small, of any density or illusory pattern contains, as in an holographic picture, the One Creator which is infinity. Thus all begins and ends in mystery.

again, containing a picture of infinity does not mean infinite.

Read it again. It doesn't say contains a picture. It says contains the One Creator which is infinity.

infinite creator needing to know itself, is still not a perfect entity.

Ra never says the Infinite Creator needs to know Itself, merely that it decides to.

in true infinity, there would be no need, or no desire, or no knowing.

I agree that there would be no need, but why couldn't there be a desire for exploration?

there would not be anything. there would be stillness, which would be, infinity itself.

but there isnt. until you are merged into stillness, and no more, you are finite.

Why do you assume infinity is stillness? Ra uses the term plenum. Infinity is fullness, not emptiness.

I think success is not determined by the numbers harvested but the quality of experience that is being added to the infinite creator. There is a richness that is added by the dark, there is an intensity that is generated by the suppression and pain. We may not realize it in this density under the veil but faith is the answer...

I agree.

infinity is a whole. if you take any part out of it, despite the part you take out is going to be 'none' compared to infinity, the infinity wont be the same because it lost one of its subset members.

It's not that we are infinite parts of an infinite whole. We are the infinite whole. The One Creator in Its entirety is within you. Take you away and there's nothing left.

infinity. never changes.

How do you know?

[airwaves]

You will keep in mind that YOU chose to come here

[unity100]

OK, I made it up through the end of page two.

and naturally you brought up a lot of arguments that were already discussed. i will respond to these again, because you have taken the effort to read the first two pages. otherwise, its being just a repetition of other discussion branches with other people.

But they seem to think that the plan has been successful in reaching its goals:

Ra: I am Ra. We are aware of creations in which third density is lengthier and more space/time is given to the choosing. However, the proportions remain the same, the dimensions all being somewhat etiolated and weakened by the Logos to have a variant experience of the Creator. This creation is seen by us to be quite vivid.

76.18 Questioner: I didn’t understand what you meant by what you said “as seen by you to be quite vivid.” What did you mean?

Ra: I am Ra. This creation is somewhat more condensed by its Logos than some other Logoi have chosen. Thus each experience of the Creator by the Creator in this system of distortions is, relatively speaking, more bright or, as we said, vivid.

you should notice that there is great difference in between the general plan for evolution, progress, and the particular plan of this logos here in this locale. (and a few nearby others).

the general plan of evolution in this octave is experiencing of 7 discrete densities which all carry a certain aspect of this octave, with bodies that carry 7 energy centers. 8th acting as the first of next octave. this doesnt change by locale, actually, it is possible that such format may be repeating in every octave.

but, there can be 'refinements' to the general plan, as Ra says. it seems that logoi, ie, manifesting suns, have noticeable free will to modify the plans as they want. for example, the logos of this locale condensed the 3d greatly. if you condense any density, the experience of the creator by creator would become very vivid, strong. just like how a mere 75,000 years for 3d on planet earth. it becomes heavy, taxing, tolling, because the catalysts fly around like there's no tomorrow. (to the point of even requiring that the average lifespan should be 30 in egypt for example, due to too many catalysts). it also causes and increases the need for healing in between incarnations. but, that vividness doesnt make it successful - because as we learn from Ra in many places, accelerated experience in a density, means the need to balance that density in another level.

imagine - they destroyed a planet here (maldek). they have come here, and then created another catastrophe. (atlantis).

Ra doesn't say that the negative polarity destroyed Maldek or created the Atlantean catastrophe.

i dont remember saying maldek was negative polarity. im not sure what you are talking about here. these are 3d entities.

And yet, here we still are, with free will. The greater earth changes have not happened so far; the global guerilla war against communism and/or fascism has not entirely erupted; we're still bumbling along.

are you here by free will ?

a great major wave of wanderers, which lasted for a few centuries, which gave this planet the scientific and ideologic freedoms that were needed. and then, 65+ million wanderers circa 1980 and counting, all here to lessen the planetary vibrations so that another catastrophe may not occur, and there actually can be a harvest, (not 250 individuals out of every 4 billion like the second cycle), and if we take q'uo, it took another relocation to a different timeline so that everything wouldnt be totally wrecked, (which is to recombine with normal timeline apparently, somewhere near 2011 winter solstice), all this conscious channeling and spiritualism efforts that has been going on since approx 100 years (from the early days of spiritualism) ....

this is not a situation of 'free will'. free will, as this logos apparently intended, is, entities in 3d being free of greater influxes and influences, even to the extent of preventing their higher self from being closer to them. that would supposedly constitute free will. the 3d entities should have been by themselves, and live by themselves, and polarize by themselves.

yet, there has been endless numbers of wanderers in this planet, bringing their energy and their teachings past the veil. the set up for free will, has been violated in that regard.

16.25 Questioner: Can you tell me what percentage of those are third, fourth, fifth, sixth etc., density?

Ra: I am Ra. A percentage seventeen for first density, a percentage twenty for second density, a percentage twenty-seven for third density, a percentage sixteen for fourth density, a percentage six for fifth density. The other information must be withheld.

Second density is 20%, not "an extreme amount."

20% for 2nd density is a high amount, leaving out the already problematic 3d. 27 compared to the other distributions is already indicative of a way too active 3rd chakra. im totally leaving it out. that leaves 20% 2d chakra, which is still strong in comparison to 17% for red, and 16% for fourth.

however that point is not too important, since the idea of the topic is not that.

By the way, 17 + 20 + 27 + 16 + 6 = 86, so 14% is unaccounted for.

http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=1272

these were the subject of another analysis in another thread. 14% is too low for unaccounted for energy centers.

i mean, veiling any density is like veiling one of your chakras. can you expect to function normally entirety of your solar plexus was taken out, spiritually or physically ? no.

Veiling third density isn't taking it out.

the extreme example illustrates the illogicality and lack of wisdom of clogging the natural and free flow of creation's energies. it requires effort to miss the core of the example.

it is quite simple actually - because, you are not 'the creator'. you are a PART of the infinity that you call creator. therefore, if you are put under load over the level which you cant handle, either as in the size of the load or duration of the load, you suffer.

Actually, you are the Creator in its entirety, right now. The illusion is that you are not.

another 'illusion' argument again.

lets see :

the 'illusion' you are talking about the 'reality' the infinite intelligence was able to discover.

the definition of 'reality' is this. there no other 'reality' concept exist ; the manifestation of finite existences, a finite reality, is, as you see in front of your eyes now.

prefixing it or renaming with the world 'illusion' doesnt change the fact that, that illusion IS the reality discovered as it is.

the concept of finiteness was discovered, and you are currently manifesting according to that concept of finiteness. there is no other concept of finity. it is the only finity we know. so, if something manifests as that finity, it means that that thing, by the definition of the finite that infinite intelligence was able to discover, is, finite.

infinite numbers of finites actually constituting an infinite entity, does not make the finite parts of that entity, that entity itself.

in short, the thing you name 'illusion' is as far as what infinite intelligence was able to discover as 'reality'.

'you are here today, but in fact you are' - > no, i am here today, and i am finite. there is no 'in fact' -> that in fact refers to a future timepoint, which has not come to pass yet. and when that future timepoint comes, i will still be finite in this particular space time continuum with the other infinite numbers of finites (all of us) existing as finite in this continuum. when the finiteness ends for this particular creation at the end of this octave, we will return (possibly) to infinity, or (more possibly) to near-infinity, and only then we will be 'all that there is' and infinite.

Possibly, but we don't really know what percentage of the light strength of 4th through 6th densities is here at the moment.

no we do not know. we can guess, since 14% is the percentage for 6,7, and somewhat 8, it may be a small number. however, the strength of these manifestations may be stronger, but, we cant account for that.

however one thing is for certain, 65 million (the number circa 1980, it was a trend, and its increasing) is a very high number for 6d. if im not mistaken, ra at some point said Ra contained 60 million or so entities. so, that makes this number almost an entire complex.

60 million entities, being 3 densities lower than their natural density, is a huge misplacement. the fact that this misplacement may correct an imbalance does not change the fact that, that imbalance, therefore, the need for that misplacement should never have occurred.

There never was total nothingness. "The first known thing in creation is infinity."

this is another topic, despite it was discussed in a shallow manner in other topics.

infinity is not a thing, its total stillness. for infinity to happen, all the distortions must meet each other and nullify each other, completing each other. infinity only becomes some 'thing', when a differentiation occurs, like, infinity becoming intelligent, ie, infinite intelligence. (some remembrance of dewey physics here). therefore, even intelligence is a state different from infinity. ra's 'distortion' concept, going to first thought and then balancing all distortions, all point to this. not to mention that the experiences of various masters during meditation, sufis, and various occult and ancient descriptions of relevant experiences.

http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.ph...3#pid14843

Ra Session 13 of the Law of One January 29, 1981

It shall be understood that any portion, no matter how small, of any density or illusory pattern contains, [u]as in an holographic picture, the One Creator which is infinity. Thus all begins and ends in mystery.[/u]

again, containing a picture of infinity does not mean infinite.

Read it again. It doesn't say contains a picture. It says contains the One Creator which is infinity.

i believe you havent understood the sentence in that answer :

it says, as in an holographic picture. which means, all entities, nomatter how small, contain the one creator which is infinity, as in an holographic picture. not, practically. they carry the image, the model of the creator. and that question was actually contained in a context in which the energy models of entities are discussed, regarding all chakras being present and in potentiation even in 2d single cell organisms.

Ra never says the Infinite Creator needs to know Itself, merely that it decides to.

'deciding' to do anything would require that something that needs to be done present. something that is perfect, does not decide to do anything, because there is nothing that can be done. even if we go and accept that the creator does not need to know itself, but it just 'merely decides' to, it means that the creator didnt know itself, and, didnt need, but 'decided to' learn itself. that would mean that first, creator doesnt know itself, second, there is something that creator can do, which means that there is something that actually can be done.

which, is far from the state of perfection. in the state of infinity, everything would have been already done, and there should be nothing that could be done.

I agree that there would be no need, but why couldn't there be a desire for exploration?

there cant be a desire, because a desire would necessitate a distortion from the state of infinity - a state in which all desires and their objectives being together.

Why do you assume infinity is stillness? Ra uses the term plenum. Infinity is fullness, not emptiness.

i have given a link in a block a few blocks above. the depiction here describes it as i take it.

but specifically because, in infinity, all the things and their antitheses, all kinds of effects and causes, all kinds of distortions would be present and came together, nullifying themselves. thus, there would be only stillness.

stillness is not emptiness, or fullness. it is stillness. in stillness the empty and full also are present, and they cancel out each other. therefore, it is uniform everywhere, and its still.

infinity is a whole. if you take any part out of it, despite the part you take out is going to be 'none' compared to infinity, the infinity wont be the same because it lost one of its subset members.

It's not that we are infinite parts of an infinite whole. We are the infinite whole. The One Creator in Its entirety is within you. Take you away and there's nothing left.

if you are infinite whole, please project yourself to our space/time continuum that is to come 2 octaves later than this particular octave's creation we are experiencing, and bring us information from there.

if you cant, it means you are not infinite. had you been infinite, you wouldnt even have the need to project yourself actually, you wouldnt be even here, interacting through a computer screen. you actually wouldnt be the infinite intelligence, because, apparently even it is a distortion, differentiation from infinity.

the crude as the example may be, it illustrates what i said before ; the concept of finity that we have discovered is as you see here. it is, finite as it can be. it is the finity we discovered. until we discover an even more 'finite' finity, this finity will be the finity concept that is known in creation. and, anything manifesting as such, will be finite.

infinity. never changes.

How do you know?

corollary of what has been argumentated numerous times in this topic, and in a topic i have linked.