New Bob Dean interview - Required viewing!

[zenmaster]

I don't see how disclosure can possibly happen without disastrous consequences. Because of the transcendence that the ETs represent - i.e. a 'savior' role, many people would psychologically transfer their self-development responsibilities.

[3DMonkey]

More disastrous?

Isn't there plenty already to "transfer" to? Sure, it would be chaotic... on one side of the tracks, the other side would be positively enabled.

[zenmaster]

More disastrous?

Isn't there plenty already to "transfer" to? Sure, it would be chaotic... on one side of the tracks, the other side would be positively enabled.

When you are presented with a transcendent figure or principle, you have an 'excuse' to transfer power of reaching that transcendence on your own with the surrogate role unconsciously recognized in the object of transference - the 'ET'. This is because you have before you a successful, manifest example of being that represents something accomplished. You 'identify' with that sufficiency, without having completed the work yourself.

So you always ask, in a compulsive manner, 'tell me' the answers. It doesn't matter that the entity is positive or of good will, there is potential avoidance of life's 'problems' or to any would-be catalyst with the expectation of answers from the ET. Just as we 'demand' that the government give us information on the nature of ET's, so we 'demand' to be spoon fed information on anything else that we think we should know. That's why 'disclosure is happening now.' is a joke - an expectation from someone that has put themselves in the passive role as a spectator.

[3DMonkey]

More disastrous?

Isn't there plenty already to "transfer" to? Sure, it would be chaotic... on one side of the tracks, the other side would be positively enabled.

When you are presented with a transcendent figure or principle, you have an 'excuse' to transfer power of reaching that transcendence on your own with the surrogate role unconsciously recognized in the object of transference - the 'ET'. This is because you have before you a successful, manifest example of being that represents something accomplished. You 'identify' with that sufficiency, without having completed the work yourself.

So you always ask, in a compulsive manner, 'tell me' the answers. It doesn't matter that the entity is positive or of good will, there is potential avoidance of life's 'problems' or to any would-be catalyst with the expectation of answers from the ET. Just as we 'demand' that the government give us information on the nature of ET's, so we 'demand' to be spoon fed information on anything else that we think we should know. That's why 'disclosure is happening now.' is a joke - an expectation from someone that has put themselves in the passive role as a spectator.

So true.

The vast majority are looking outward for identity. If one is inclined to look from outside themselves, ET presence would only be another one on the list of things to transfer/defer to.

It is important to foster a concept of looking within. I am aware that requiring my version of Disclosure is a kind of seeking from outside. I don't hope for it though.

I think I just want all the headlines on Disclosure to vanish, and I think they would if my definition was the accepted one.

[Bring4th_Austin]

That's why 'disclosure is happening now.' is a joke - an expectation from someone that has put themselves in the passive role as a spectator.

I completely agree with your idea that "disclosure," affirmation or contact from ETs, would be deleterious at this stage in the human spiritual and psychological development. I'm confident the STO ETs realize this, and would not make open physical contact until the groundwork you talk about is laid.

But is it not appropriate to ask our government to not lie about such things? Is it not appropriate for someone in our shoes to be excited that documents regarding such matters are being declassified, no matter the quality of those documents? Is it not normal to wish that when one searches for answers on the outside, they find the truth instead of lies? This world would not be so deeply asleep if the lies weren't so thick.

[zenmaster]

This world would not be so deeply asleep if the lies weren't so thick.

I agree. We can also often be lying to ourselves and others if we dishonestly think we know what the lies are. And in fact it can be a greater 'injustice' (if that is the appropriate word) to promote a manufactured idea of govt lying in a particular manner, for the sole purpose of provoking a desired change or even of bringing more attention to the subject.

[Bring4th_Austin]

I agree, spreading ideas that the government is lying about something which we don't know the truth ourselves is just as bad or worse than the government lying.

But the move from complete denial to simple acknowledgement of mystery is what I consider the exciting part about what is happening nowadays. Have you seen the recent documentary, "I Know What I Saw."? The irony in the title sort of pains me (none of them know what it is they saw...), but it is what I am personally excited about. Documented cases in records and books, proof of UFOs on radar, hundreds of government and military officials from around the world coming forward saying, "I experienced something that I cannot fit within my definition of reality." Used to, these cases would be buried and silenced. In what I believe was the government trying to protect us and prevent hysteria, UFO sightings among pilots, astronauts, and other military/government personnel were not openly acknowledged or talked about, and now they are in a major sense. By my own definition, this is "disclosure is happening." And I do find it exciting. It is not acknowledging anyone knows what is going on, it is acknowledging the mystery of NOT knowing what is going on, rather than saying "shhhh....don't talk about that."

The mystery can help awaken people, as I've seen it happen to many in my life. But when the government says, "Go about your daily life, nothing is abnormal here. Just swamp gas and hallucinations," the element of mystery is removed and people will go back to watching American Idol or CSI or whatever without wondering what is really going on.

[3DMonkey]

people will go back to watching American Idol or CSI or whatever without wondering what is really going on.

Survivor: Redemption Island

(funny, cuz it's true )

[zenmaster]

The 'safer' the environment is for people to come forward to discuss their encounters, the more we'll hear from them. But 'safety' is not simply fear of men in black (or whatever), it's not having common experiential context with which to present a foreign idea such as seeing a levitating disc or an astral ET or of being examined. (Many on these forums probably have seen a UFO or alien). Lack of this context is a barrier to communication that is almost impossible to overcome. Even if the non-experiencer were to accept the idea, it would be interpreted within their own framework which would probably be incorrect and possibly harmful. But things have slowly been evolving from dedicated pioneering researchers, to support groups, to seminars, to conventions, etc.

[3DMonkey]

Even if the non-experiencer were to accept the idea, it would be interpreted within their own framework which would probably be incorrect and possibly harmful. But things have slowly been evolving from dedicated pioneering researchers, to support groups, to seminars, to conventions, etc.

The evolvement is very nice. It still leaves doubt for me, and that leaves me in a world that looks the same as it does now. Steered by Craze and Mania.

[kanonathena]

It's because people are too subjective, they are not using their logical mind to ask questions like "Are we alone in the universe" "Can their be a ET civilization more advanced than ours that they are able to travel here, considering how old the universe is" "UFO may not be real but what if they are real? Does the implication warrant some investigation"

People are so subjective that their perception of reality tend to stay idle, worse, led astray by the media, removed completely of the little curiosity they have left. So to create a context for awakening the media must be reined in first, let the population regain some curiosity. But maybe we don't have to do anything at all if the 4th density light and all wanderers can make enough impact on the people consciousness.

[3DMonkey]

4D full activation would be the only way to change it. 4D changes the entire game. Any other way is the say game with different players revolving.

[Bring4th_Austin]

I feel like the government acknowledging that something unexplained is happening will create a more accepting environment for people who have had UFO/abduction experiences to come forward and speak about it. There are still a lot of people in the world who would say, "If aliens are abducting people, why do they only go for backwoods hillbillies and crazy people?" or "Someone who saw a UFO was either hallucinating or just saw an airplane or helicopter." This attitude, for some part at least, is derived from them trusting the people they feel have the answers (the government) saying that there is nothing abnormal or paranormal going on.

I feel safer talking about my own UFO experience with my friends and coworkers when I can direct them to press conferences with astronauts, military, and government officials explaining the same experience I had, renouncing the "everything's normal here" attitude. And in doing this, it opens up an entirely new dialog about the nature of life in the universe that is exciting, and has moved more than one person to turn down a path of self-reflection.

[zenmaster]

I feel like the government acknowledging that something unexplained is happening will create a more accepting environment for people who have had UFO/abduction experiences to come forward and speak about it.

Yes, many people tend to look towards authority figures to validate their beliefs. The acknowledgement would also beg the question from the people of just what is known to prompt the declaration. They would not accept 'something unexplained' as a sufficient answer for this type of phenomenon, or any other with the world-view changing implications it carries. Merely acknowledging it is sufficient justification for accountability. This puts the govt in a surrogate role of answering demanding questions of meaning and purpose. The answers can not be satisfactory, because the nature of the problem is philosophical or 'existential', not nuts and bolts or scientific.

[3DMonkey]

What does the government know about science, lol? Or anything other than social organization?

[Bring4th_Austin]

I can see where you'd think people wouldn't be satisfied with, "something unexplainable is going on." But I feel that's the path to take. When the government would have no answers to give, it might prompt people to look beyond their typical authority figure for answers, like we here have done.

And while I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I don't think this has to do with authority figures validating beliefs. The government and its many branches and organizations take the responsibility of knowing what is going on, keeping records and investigating occurrences. A single person cannot validate that a pilot is telling the truth about a UFO on their own, but the FAA can provide records and testimonials from multiple people and sources, provide it to the public, and then the public is allowed to decide for themselves what to believe. When the information is kept hidden and classified, someone can't even validate on their own that something actually happened.

[zenmaster]

What does the government know about science, lol? Or anything other than social organization?

It's not knowledge of science that'd be relevant, it's just that scientific problems are an example of addressable class of problems, because there's a known approach that is acceptable (i.e. as we have energy, waste mgmt, etc.) enough.

[3DMonkey]

I agree. I wasn't making an argument. I mean, show me a government supporting a scientist, and I'll show you a wealthy scientist with newly earned popularity.

Dr Phil?

[native]

When the information is kept hidden and classified, someone can't even validate on their own that something actually happened.

Yes, but there are plenty who have come forward from the military..and of course govts around the world have been releasing their files. The information is there for anyone to rationally approach the situation with an open mind if they choose to.

If you look to power structures for answers and trust their testimony over your fellow man then there is still a level of programming that has to be removed. If people remain skeptical because the official answer is no, then they aren't willing to believe in themselves. It shows that they can be misled and are capable of being influenced to doubt themselves. People need to seek. If they are told yes, what does that accomplish? The people have to look within themselves and take the situation into their own hands. I guess I just don't like people being given answers without seeking, because it leaves a lot of room for manipulation.

[native]

I understand your argument though. But in all honesty, nothing is hidden. Everything we need to know is available to us. How is it that we all can examine the same information and come to different conclusions? It seems that some are ready and others are not, so they find comfort that there are elements of doubt in place.

[3DMonkey]

I understand your argument though. But in all honesty, nothing is hidden. Everything we need to know is available to us. How is it that we all can examine the same information and come to different conclusions? It seems that some are ready and others are not, so they find comfort that there are elements of doubt in place.

I know I won't be satisfied till I get this veil out of my face!

I want personal disclosure, no media buzz words, just a nice visit in privacy. (still, nothing)

[native]

It seems people are more likely to have dream contact, so I'd focus on that.

[zenmaster]

I understand your argument though. But in all honesty, nothing is hidden. Everything we need to know is available to us.

Nothing of value can ever be hidden, because we contain the ultimate answers. Our lives and the questions are the same thing. But we demand that others give us answers, that they tell us about ourselves - then we complain that our standards have not been met. It's a cycle of karma. 'Disclosure' is just another allegory of people trying to know themselves in an unconscious manner. Society or the collective unconscious becomes the (slow) vehicle of discovery when the self is ignored.

[3DMonkey]

Annoying , contradictory monkey says:

What if the answer inside is to be a voice to demand government truth? The answers from within are shielded for purposes not always known. We do what is revealed from within. This could be to become an Internet doomsdayer if that's the role.

The collective unconscious is what builds worlds. It operates always, even if we are all seeking self.

[zenmaster]

What if the answer inside is to be a voice to demand government truth?

"Be the change you want to see in the world".

[Aaron]

Zenmaster, I fundamentally agree with what you say in post #53. But I think there's another side to it. Times of change like these call for transparency and honesty in the government and corporate structures. So, seeing things like disclosure come about must be a sign that progress is being made for the societal self, giving the collective unconscious a brighter, easier playing field for polarization.

[3DMonkey]

What if the answer inside is to be a voice to demand government truth?

"Be the change you want to see in the world".

"Ignorance is bliss"

This is not a shot at you, AT ALL. It's also not to slight your quote.

The more words I use, the deeper hole I dig.

The way I am in reality is the way I really see others. How I define an other is how I define my idea of the way they see me.

If I am condemning others, then the world I see is one that is condemning. I could be fooling myself by thinking that I am helping them, but in reality I am blindly condemning them.
If I am condemning an other, my idea of their view of me is one of condemnation. I could be fooling myself that I am forgiving another, and blindly believe they continue to condemn me.


"Be the change you want to see in the world".
If I view the world with rose colored glasses, then the world see with rose colored glasses.
"Ignorance is bliss"

[zenmaster]

Times of change like these call for transparency and honesty in the government and corporate structures.

And other times, not so much.

So, seeing things like disclosure come about must be a sign that progress is being made for the societal self, giving the collective unconscious a brighter, easier playing field for polarization.

Could be, but a sign and the thing in itself are always two different things. The sign can be like a guide, or some kind of inspiration, I guess. If you tie to it polarization, then of course to downplay its significance would be like downplaying an enabler of humanity.

[Bring4th_Austin]

When the information is kept hidden and classified, someone can't even validate on their own that something actually happened.

Yes, but there are plenty who have come forward from the military..and of course govts around the world have been releasing their files. The information is there for anyone to rationally approach the situation with an open mind if they choose to.

I was speaking from the standpoint from before this was happening, as this is a fairly recent thing. The information has not always been there to approach with an open mind. For a long time, the only information available was "nothing is abnormal, it was just swamp gas/hallucination/an airplane or helicopter." Did you see my comment about the documentary "I Know What I Saw"? Zen was talking about disclosure being a harmful thing, and I was simply trying to point out that disclosure as it is happening now (these people coming forward) is healthy in the sense that it allows for more acceptance of the mystery without really validating anything, except that many people who we might trust to recognize normal phenomenon in our skies experience abnormal, unexplainable phenomenon.

[3DMonkey]

an enabler of humanity.

I almost used that in my last post.

Ignorance is Bliss.