Caring/Compassion/Sensitivity/Tact vs Lying/Faking

[unity100]

you can use this conversion table. even if this is the extreme end, and only in britain, it conveys the fakery/underhandedness in politespeak in anglosphere quite well.

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with this, i cease my participation in this topic. anyone who would want to respond to me regarding this topic, can find my answer already pre-typed in my last 3-4 posts.

[yossarian]

I think I'm the authority on English language and culture here.

When you use the honorifics that I presented, people are aware that you believe they are wrong. It's clear that you are telling them they are wrong.

You're just telling them they're wrong in a polite way. It does not give the impression you think they are right. It gives the impression you think they are wrong, and that you respect them, and that you wish you help them not put them down.

Seriously. When Namaste tells me I'm wrong on this forum, I know it. I don't mistakenly think he is agreeing with me. He's an example of a very polite English speaker who tells people they are wrong all the time.

In Turkish, people might mistakenly believe you're agreeing with them.

In English, people know you are disagreeing, but they believe you are "disagreeing respectfully and with kindness" rather than "disagreeing disrespectfully in order to put them down and make them inferior to you."

People in Canada will correct others out of a desire to dominate them. For instance in Canada if Alice says, "The tower is 3000 feet high," Bill could reply, "You are wrong. The tower is 2410 feet high. How could it possibly be 3000 feet high when the highest tower in the world is only 2940 feet? This proves you are wrong. You need to go back and read your high school textbooks to get re-acquainted with the height of towers."

In Canada, there is more to Bill's message than just the logical, literal content of the message. Bill's message also carries an implication: "you are stupid, I am smarter than you, you failed to learn your high school and you were wrong, therefore you are inferior and I am superior. You should be ashamed of yourself for being so wrong."

It's called "saving face"

Alternatively, if Bill said, "More precisely, the tower is 2410 feet. I think this is an important point because it's not actually the tallest tower in the world, the tallest is 2940 feet. I remember this from my high school textbook which talked about tower heights, it was a very informative book and I think you would benefit by giving it a re-read, Alice."

Exact same logical content. Significantly more polite and less offensive. Does not carry the implication that Bill is superior to Alice and that Alice should be ashamed of her ignorance.

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you can use this conversion table. even if this is the extreme end, and only in britain, it conveys the fakery/underhandedness in politespeak in anglosphere quite well.

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with this, i cease my participation in this topic. anyone who would want to respond to me regarding this topic, can find my answer already pre-typed in my last 3-4 posts.

That graphic is meant to be a joke. There is truth to your criticism of the language and culture, however it is possible to be polite while still being honest.

I agree that many people in this culture will tell lies to avoid telling the truth. I don't advocate this, or do this.

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Unity is right -- it's really hard to express disagreement in the Anglosphere without being impolite.

I think it would be more accurate to say, "it's really hard to express disagreement in the Anglosphere without being perceived as impolite."

Those are exactly the same. The only part of communication that matters is how it is perceived.

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Unity, why do you always ditch as soon as I feel like we're getting somewhere?

And why so resistant to taking criticism of your English? Is it impossible to consider that maybe I know the language better than you?

[Monica]

if someone is in the necessity of hearing nice things or being appreciated or the like, s/he does not have business with advanced spiritual information yet, because it is dangerous.

I strongly disagree. I think most of us here appreciate hearing nice words, and yet we all get value out of the deeper discussion too. Respectfully, friend, it's not your place to decide who has "any business" with advanced spiritual info.

Furthermore, I think the point yossarian was trying to make, was that, any entity whose higher chakras are activated, should also have a strong foundation in green, and if that's the case, such a person would be able to express love and caring, naturally, without any faking. Nor would such a person feel resistance to the idea of expressing caring, because s/he would genuinely care.

Wouldn't it be honest to say, "you are 100% incorrect, also, I love you" ?

and the point of doing that, in a discussion where information is shared, will be ?

The point would be to be honest and express green ray, as well as the higher rays.

I have no problem, right now, saying with genuine and complete honesty:

I LOVE YOU UNITY100!!!

And it's totally sincere. No faking whatsoever. It comes naturally to me. It has nothing to do with whether you need it or not.

It would take a lot more effort to withhold such love, because it pours thru me freely! I don't even have to think about it, much less offer justifications of withholding it ("it's not needed", "we are discussing deeper things" etc.).

Unity100, you stated that the attributes of the next density aren't found in the one below it. But this quote proves that a 4D property, compassion, is indeed found in 3D.

As I stated previously, an attribute must be manifested first, as a requirement to get to the density in which that attribute is abundant.

Compassion isn't abundant in 3D. But it's definitely found in 3D. And, 3D is where entities develop compassion. When they have enough compassion to dwell in the density in which compassion is abundant (4D) then they graduate to 4D.

Bring4th_Monica.

reaching the MINIMUM requirement of the next density, happens at the END of a density, when the THRESHOLD that is hard to pass and hard to stop on, is passed. and the entity graduates after that.

it does NOT stay in the previous density in order to manifest the NEXT density's properties. that is as simple as it can get, and no density is an exception.

I don't know what quote you're basing that on, but I think you're wrong about that. Just as in school there are 'A' students, 'B' students, and 'C' students, so too is there a range of polarizing going on with 3D entities.

To reach the mere 51% would be to graduate as a 'D' student.

Just looking around me, I know lots of people whom I believe are well above the minimum threshold. And that's not counting those who might have already graduated but came back to help increase the harvest.

compassion isnt found in 3d.

Are you serious??? I'm incredulous! Unity100, I am so incredulous I am speechless!

If you have never witnessed or experienced compassion, then I think all of us need to ZAP you with more hearts, quick!



WE LOVE YOU UNITY100! Compassion is ABUNDANT here on Earth!

[Oceania]

even if i were to unconsciously notice, i'd feel positive because i like it. only people who dislike lower case would feel adversely affected.

[AnthroHeart]

Well said about the advanced spiritual info Monica.

I know that some of us have techniques that work for us, like what I did for enhancing my emotional experiencing.
That led to some extreme experiencing, such as many of my fears rushing to the surface.

Do you think techniques that bring your fears to the surface that intensely are wise?

[Oceania]

Unity, do you ever feel moved by positive emotion? do you have people that show you love? if you think 3D has no compassion, that's pretty bleak. do you think people fake when they show you compassion?

[yossarian]

even if i were to unconsciously notice, i'd feel positive because i like it. only people who dislike lower case would feel adversely affected.

Basically my read of the situation is:

lowercase = casual, non-chalent, unserious, low effort

bad grammar = sloppy, uncaring, imprecise, lazy (on top of being genuinely confusing)

confusing sentences = hastily prepared, low effort, does not care about the reader's time or energy

[Monica]

WE LOVE YOU UNITY100!!!



(Dang, the system has a max of 10 hearts per post. I'll have to talk to Steve about that.)

[yossarian]

Well said about the advanced spiritual info Monica.

I know that some of us have techniques that work for us, like what I did for enhancing my emotional experiencing.
That led to some extreme experiencing, such as many of my fears rushing to the surface.

Do you think techniques that bring your fears to the surface that intensely are wise?

What technique is this? I absolutely think a technique like this is wise. I want to try your technique

[Monica]

Unity, why do you always ditch as soon as I feel like we're getting somewhere?

I noticed that too. :-/

[yossarian]

I'm trying to look at my criticisms from unity's perspective and I can see how it would be frustrating to be constantly told you're being rude when, logically and literally, you're only commenting on the correctness or incorrectness of ideas. The English language comes with a lot of baggage.

Being polite while disagreeing with people is not even easy for native speakers, I can see how hard it would be for ESLs.

The comments about how there is no compassion in 3D however still mystify me. I don't see how he could say that? Of course there's compassion!

[Oceania]

Yossarian it could also mean someone has difficulties using language if they have poor grammar. the reason i talk casually is not just because my personality is such, i also have difficulty with forming sentences in a linear verbal way because my thoughts are nonlinear and balls of information. a singularity - containing a lot, and when i speak i have to unravel the ball of interrelated ideas and thoughts and take out the information that is "too much" even though to me it's all so related i'd rather include it. took me years to learn to be concise. i had to learn to take the stuff people want to hear and weigh what is essential to the story and what is stuff i want to include just because it was in the original thought ball but not as essential as the other stuff. it still makes me cringe to think how limited earth language is because people don't get all the related info which could save lives. on soaps people die because of misunderstandings.

and i'm babbling again. i'm just saying, we all have lots of reasons for our quirks and preferences and even the way we write. i think Unity speaks well considering he's not english-speaking and doesn't even like the cultures of english speaking people, which i think is essential when learning a language.

[yossarian]

Yossarian it could also mean someone has difficulties using language if they have poor grammar. the reason i talk casually is not just because my personality is such, i also have difficulty with forming sentences in a linear verbal way because my thoughts are nonlinear and balls of information. a singularity - containing a lot, and when i speak i have to unravel the ball of interrelated ideas and thoughts and take out the information that is "too much" even though to me it's all so related i'd rather include it. took me years to learn to be concise. i had to learn to take the stuff people want to hear and weigh what is essential to the story and what is stuff i want to include just because it was in the original thought ball but not as essential as the other stuff. it still makes me cringe to think how limited earth language is because people don't get all the related info which could save lives. on soaps people die because of misunderstandings.

and i'm babbling again. i'm just saying, we all have lots of reasons for our quirks and preferences and even the way we write. i think Unity speaks well considering he's not english-speaking and doesn't even like the cultures of english speaking people, which i think is essential when learning a language.

I agree with you, and I'm very sympathetic.

However whether the poor grammar is due to ability or something else, the message it communicates is the same.

[Oceania]

yeah but it's also the responsibility of the recipient to not jump to conclusions.

[Tenet Nosce]

"that's not right, sweetie"
"honey, you aren't correct"
"precious, that's plain wrong"

try these out for size

3DMonkey, my honey dearest precious sweetling, perhaps you may wish to possibly consider the inherent absurdity in pandering to the niceties demanded by the ego when discussing spiritual truths as there exists the possibility and perhaps even the propensity to contribute- while most likely inadvertently- to the possible misapprehension of what another precious soul might be wishing to convey and for the dear ego- bless its heart- to use the potential for taking offense as one of the many possible distraction techniques that may or may not be sometimes used in order to keep itself from acknowledging the possibility that maybe perhaps it is founded upon a false illusion of separation that- while it may have once served a valuable and even noble purpose- is wrong.

[3DMonkey]

I never understood why he did until now. But now I get it. You are the ultimate version of subjective reality, you believe in basically nothing and everything at the same time.

So you're pointless to talk to for someone who believes in objective reality.

You guys are completely incompatible when it comes to discussing ideas!

I am having lots of epiphanies today :p

I thought that was what the Law of One is.

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I really like the way you put it though. It gives me pause (paws )

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You said "ultimate"

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Oh yes! I get it now. You are right. I do believe everything IS nothing.

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My OWN epiphany. Thank you

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"that's not right, sweetie"
"honey, you aren't correct"
"precious, that's plain wrong"

try these out for size

3DMonkey, my honey dearest precious sweetling, perhaps you may wish to possibly consider the inherent absurdity in pandering to the niceties demanded by the ego when discussing spiritual truths as there exists the possibility and perhaps even the propensity to contribute- while most likely inadvertently- to the possible misapprehension of what another precious soul might be wishing to convey and for the dear ego- bless its heart- to use the potential for taking offense as one of the many possible distraction techniques that may or may not be sometimes used in order to keep itself from acknowledging the possibility that maybe perhaps it is founded upon a false illusion of separation that- while it may have once served a valuable and even noble purpose- is wrong.

Awww. See. Like honey. All I heard was "I love you"

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(on, like, three levels)

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We all could have just let Unity be Unity. I've learned that a long time ago. But this is too much fun. I love it!! I say "keep it up unity100. Without you.... I don't even want to consider it "

[apeiron]

It really feels like none of us know s***.

But if unity100 knew that the expression "you are wrong" can be taken as "you don't know s***" why use it? Isn't that hypocritical?

Anyway, honesty. Honesty will be different for every person. A picasso will have different values (or none) for each of us; I can even block an emotion, a yell, by honestly not trying to make things worse, or uncaring towards others. Maybe we are confusing honesty with expressing the first thought that comes to mind, on occasions, with temper tantrums, anger issues ; then seemingly, we are just expressing emotions tinted with orange, yellow or whatever. And that is ok, but I don't want to hear temper tantrums...

And then, thinking that one has the truth (?) that is the ultimate hyprocrisy.

So again, none of us know s*** at the end.

By the way I love you all!! (NOT).

However, almost everybody was in a bad mood today...Seems yellow negative was very high.

[3DMonkey]

However, almost everybody was in a bad mood today...Seems yellow negative was very high.

Yes. For sure. Something was afoot.

[Tenet Nosce]

Awww. See. Like honey. All I heard was "I love you"

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(on, like, three levels)

Level 1: :idea:
Level 2:
Level 3:

"The ego is terrified of the truth. And the truth is that the ego doesn’t exist."

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Yes. For sure. Something was afoot.

http://spaceweather.com/archive.php?view...&year=2011

FINE SUNSPOT: The emergence of giant sunspot AR1339 has had an unexpected effect on Earth. Instead of a rash of geomagnetic storms, there has been a rash of fine photography.

Maybe... just maybe...

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And then, thinking that one has the truth (?) that is the ultimate hyprocrisy.

TRUTH #1: You are the One Infinite Creator, now temporarily experiencing itself in human form.

Clear. Concise. And unambiguously unhypocritical.

[zenmaster]

Relativism/pluralism is just another stage in the development of mind here, with possible healthy an pathological expressions. It can be used like a weapon or to actually provide more opportunity for acceptance.

You are right. As I said:

As with all spiritual truths, there exists a twisted- or bastardized- version of it which is ascribed to by a certain percentage of the population.

In this particular case, YCYOR gets twisted into a belief that whatever one believes becomes true- even if it flies directly in the face of Cosmic Law.

Good book on the subject 'Boomeritis'.
http://therock.csldallas.org/24511/2010/...nbond.html

[Bring4th_Austin]

Unity is right -- it's really hard to express disagreement in the Anglosphere without being impolite.

I think it would be more accurate to say, "it's really hard to express disagreement in the Anglosphere without being perceived as impolite."

Those are exactly the same. The only part of communication that matters is how it is perceived.

I disagree, there is a huge difference. For instance, say I perceived what you just said as a huge insult.

Yossarian, what you just said was extremely offensive to me. You must lack compassion because what I perceived was hate. My ego is battered and I feel like ceasing my participation on this forum. I can't believe I was slighted like this by a fellow brother of the LOO.

Should you rectify? And apologize? Perhaps reword it to where I would not be offended?

Or, knowing your intent was not to offend and understanding that if I perceive impoliteness, it is my OWN distortion, stick by your words?

What if, in my culture, it is rude to disagree with someone in ANY context in ANY form? Would you then hesitate to disagree? Would you feign agreement to not seem rude? Would it be STS of you to disagree with me, because it would offend me no matter how you put it?

[zenmaster]

Honestly, it boils down to a mental game we play with ourselves in order feel 'okay'.

Sometimes we feel 'okay' without playing a game, and then where do you go from there?

[Tenet Nosce]

Good book on the subject 'Boomeritis'.

I am getting the clear indication that you are a fan of Ken Wilber's work. The wikipedia entry is interesting.

http://therock.csldallas.org/24511/2010/...nbond.html

Green is also beautifully captured in the view of Earth from space - seeing that there are no boundaries of countries, and that the entire earth is precious and valuable.

What an interesting coincidence as I chose to use this image as my profile picture on Facebook today.

Yes... I think this pretty much sums it up...

The unhealthy Green sees any advance by anyone as a negative statement on those who have not advanced in the same manner. An unhealthy Green sees all elections as inherently "unfair competitions" and all recognitions as unfairly elevating someone "over" another, which implies that the rest simply aren't good enough. The unhealthy Green worldview takes political-correctness to the extreme and is easily offended. In addition, there is a deep suspicion and distrust of all authority because it automatically assumes that all leadership comes out of hierarchy and power.

Finally the biggest challenge with the Green viewpoint is it's intolerance to intolerance. Because Green is so convinced that everyone is equal and should be accepted as such, it can not accept those who can't see things from that viewpoint. So, in effect, Green believes that all viewpoints are right, and if you don't agree with that viewpoint, you are wrong. This presents quite the dilemma!

[3DMonkey]

Honestly, it boils down to a mental game we play with ourselves in order feel 'okay'.

Sometimes we feel 'okay' without playing a game, and then where do you go from there?

to sleep?

[zenmaster]

Should you rectify? And apologize? Perhaps reword it to where I would not be offended?

People can habituate themselves into the victim/manipulator role by such exaggeration. This is also often done to position themselves on a moral 'high ground'. But what is really going on is a learning process where they are asking unconscious questions to see what is the acceptable social dynamic (The unconscious questions varies depending on personal needs, but the theme is always 'where is the balance'). When one is still working through relativism/pluralism/Transformation-of-Mind, their sense of proportion tends to be distorted.

[Tenet Nosce]

to sleep?

Too... much... awareness... must shut... brain down... before ego... gets destroyed...

Nitey-nite my little godling. Rest well, you have a big awakening ahead of you in the morning.

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you can use this conversion table. even if this is the extreme end, and only in britain, it conveys the fakery/underhandedness in politespeak in anglosphere quite well.

Fantastic timing! Science has just confirmed that the strange social behaviors of Anglos are due to a brain parasite. Well there you go. Issue settled.

Brain Parasite Directly Alters Brain Chemistry

ScienceDaily (Nov. 4, 2011) — Research shows infection by the brain parasite Toxoplasma gondii, found in 10-20 per cent of the UK's population, directly affects the production of dopamine, a key chemical messenger in the brain.

[zenmaster]

I am getting the clear indication that you are a fan of Ken Wilber's work.

The Green vMeme (nothing really to do with heart-chakra 'green') is the local expression of the 6th subdensity here. Many 'wanderers' or 'new-agers' are still centered at this level, still lost in inflated 'relativism'. Wilber's descriptions of the 'Mean Green Meme' fit the behavior and values rather well. I point it out because there's already a great deal written about the phenomenon to which you're alluding.

[3DMonkey]

to sleep?

Too... much... awareness... must shut... brain down... before ego... gets destroyed...

Nitey-nite my little godling. Rest well, you have a big awakening ahead of you in the morning.

We're always playing the game, silly.

[zenmaster]

We're always playing the game, silly.

What is this game you keep talking about? Also what do you mean by we are always pretending?

[Monica]

there is no point to attempting to share any kind of information in such an environment. everyone can talk anything about anything they want, regardless of how nonsense or misleading they may be, ignoring/refusing/denying any kind of common truth that god forbid may be used in weeding out valuable and usable information.

Theoretically, you're right.

However, in reality (meaning this forum in this 3D reality), it's really not an issue; you're exaggerating the risk of people "talking nonsense."

Because:

1. It hasn't happened much. Sure, there have been a few instances of someone sharing something that seemed a bit 'way out there' but guess what, no one except you seemed to notice or care. Why? Probably because they read it and thought, "Oh wow, that person had a pretty wild meditation...but that's a little too far-out for me" and promptly forgot all about it. This isn't Sunday school Bible study! No one is at risk for getting suckered into believing in pink unicorns. I mean really, it's just not an issue.

2. Even if it were an issue, as ascertained by the mods, the community overall, and the owner of this forum, who are you to decide what is 'correct' and what is nonsense? When was it decided that a particular member of our community gets to police the comments of everyone else? With all due respect, unity, if you aren't happy with the level of freedom we enjoy here at Bring4th, you could always start your own forum with different rules, and enforce those rules as you wish. But the owner of this forum - Carla - has made it very clear that she doesn't want the Law of One turned into a religion. You speak of it as though it's a religion and you are singlehandedly responsible for weeding out any heresies.

of course, numerous among you again switched the 'personal truth' switches at the point you read the preceding sentences, and immediately invoked the 'how dare you question my truth' leave aside 'how dare you insist on questioning my truth' knee-jerk reactions again.

Respectfully, you do it too. Your way of doing it is to exit the discussion as soon as holes are found in your logic or someone offers points you are unwilling or unable to answer...ie., shown to be...wrong.

Or maybe you do it when points are made that you need to ponder? In which case, a more honest response would be to say, "Those are very good points. I'm not sure I agree, but I'm going to exit this discussion and think about all that's been said." I've never seen you do that. Surely there are times when you might feel a bit shaken in your convictions and need to think about the points made by others, right? Surely you do learn from us sometimes?

It's ok to admit that you need to think about things for awhile. You don't need to have a ready answer for everything. This is a learning process for all of us.

an environment in which people gather to exchange/discuss/learn/discover advanced information, leave aside study them, and god forbid something that is important, fundamental, delicate and at times potentially dangerous in many ways like spiritual information, is not a suitable place for people who are seeking self-realization, appeasement, validation through the 'personal truths' they have taken on, regardless of how right, or how wrong they may be. actually this goes valid for any place of learning/exchange. knowledge is not for self-worth and appeasement. people who are afraid of their self truth being questioned or called wrong, should not embark in spiritual voyages, leave aside sit with other people to discuss anything about them.

What you just said, right there, is your 'personal truth.'

You state it as though it's an absolute truth, but it's not. It a personal truth. Your personal truth.

You have no right to impose your personal truth about who should and shouldn't participate in these discussions. It's not your place to do that. No offense, but you're just a member, like everyone else.

it doesnt matter whether the distaste for being wrong, or being unable to validate self-worth/value/strength through 'personal truths' that are used to identify with, is conveniently translated into form of demanding 'compassion' through definitions conveniently created from local social political correctness.

First of all, how is demanding compassion any different from you demanding 'correctness'? and your perception of 'correctness' at that! We don't even agree on what is correct! So why should we adhere to your perception of 'correctness'? You aren't an authority.

Anyway, correctness isn't even as important as compassion. It's compassion that is integral to graduation from 3D. I don't recall Ra ever stating that 'correctness' of understanding or belief was required for us at any time. Ra even stated that understanding wasn't of this density.

Sure, Ra gave us a great deal of information. And also told us to use our own discernment. But never did Ra indicate that complete understanding would make or break our progress in any way. That's all your perception, to think that it could, or that having an 'incorrect' understanding is "dangerous." Ra never said that. You did.

No one is "demanding" anything, and certainly not some fake display of compassion. However, it is clearly stated in our guidelines that each member act with love, caring, respect, and...compassion.

1) Respect. Compassion. Loving-kindness. Empathy. Trust. Goodwill. Desire to serve. Embracing each other. Opening our heart. Participants are asked to keep the thought in the forefront of their minds at all times that each on this forum IS the Creator. Please keep communication respectful at all times and in all ways. The participant may disagree to the bone with an idea without personally attacking the author of the idea. Please remember that we are all here to expand our knowledge, deepen our understanding, and support one another by reflecting our divinity to each other. We are One being -- we are not here to forget the real.

There it is, right there. The 2nd word in Guideline #1. I'd say that makes it pretty important.

Unity100, it's no secret that many members have accused you of not having compassion. I personally have gone to bat for you numerous times, because I thought that most of it was due to cognitive distortions, cultural differences, the fact that English wasn't your native language, and just simple personality differences.

But I am now very disconcerted to learn that you don't seem to value compassion at all. Throughout this entire thread, you have been arguing against compassion having any value at all, and have even stated that it's not even found in 3D!

I don't know what to make of this. I'm stunned, quite frankly.

The bottom line is that compassion is an important requirement for participating in our community. So important, that it's the 2nd word in our #1 guideline.

if something is wrong, it is wrong continually, until the situations surrounding it changes.

The problem is that it's not your place to decide what's wrong.

You can voice your opinion, like everyone else, and we welcome it. But we don't appreciate being told that we are wrong, just because you think we're wrong. That has to change. It cannot continue.

if that does not happen throughout the course of an internet discussion (it very rarely does), it means that something that was wrong 2 pages ago, flying in the face of basic spiritual information which everyone is SUPPOSEDLY subscribing to, remains wrong for the remainder of the discussion.

Well excuse me, but compassion is really basic, and you seem to have missed it.

and no - 'reinterpreting' the basic spiritual information that everyone uses as common ground, PERSONALLY, does not help either - its just the practice of manufacturing 'personal truth' as convenient.

But we ALL interpret and 'reinterpret' the same 'basic' spiritual info, including you.

For some reason, you seem convinced that the way you have interpreted the material, is canon.

But you are mistaken in that. And yes, I do have the authority to tell you you're wrong on that point, because I know the wishes of the owner of this forum, and that is that the material not be made into a religion. So for anyone to insist on their interpretation being established as canon, is to make it into a doctrine. That's expressly not allowed here.