Bring4th

Have you ever, in your rounds of Asian cuisine, had "mock duck"? That's also seitan.

Seitan is yummy and I'd like to try to make it myself sometime. My work got sent 2 cases of seitan instead of 2 cases of tofu on an order over the summer, and let me have one, so I got a pretty good fill up on seitan for a minute, though.

Are you familiar with tempeh? It's a fermented soy product that's really delicious and just healthier in general than tofu (due to the fermentation process). I like to cut it into little nuggets and fry it in coconut oil.

Oh, and another way I use tempeh is I get pita or flatbread, and hummus, and crumble up some tempeh on top and bake it in the oven til it just barely gets warm and crispy (7 mins or so). My favorite is to then top it with some olive tapenade - yum!

never had mock duck. I had seen the word 'seitan' for a little while (courtesy of reddit), but I just blanked it into the background, and never bothered looking it up. I guess a case of selective blindness, due to lack of interest (how can one know that you are not interested in something, if you don't even know what it is?? ). But maybe curiosity is the means by which we truly learn. You pay attention to things and opportunities that you think may be applicable to your situation.

I've heard of tempeh before. And seen it in the supermarkets (one of the big chains). I can't remember, but I think I might have tried it a couple of years ago. Pretty sure I tried it with some noodles, as a tofu subsitute. It was ok. I might be more interested in revisiting it, now that I'm a bit more committed on the vegan path.

Your way of cooking it sounds pretty delish. (including the post just now!)

(12-04-2015, 11:43 AM)facettes Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:“The pigs were glowing deep gold”: The amazing experience that ended my life as a pig farmer

Even though I was raising and slaughtering pigs as humanely as possible, I had doubts. But then I was sure

Bob Comis

As a child and through my teens and 20s my meat eating was fast, copious—gluttonous even—and absolutely thoughtless, totally reflexive. Growing up in a suburb of Syracuse, New York, around cats, dogs and mobs of grey squirrels, I had only the vaguest, most abstract notion — when I had any notion at all — of a connection between the delectable hamburger patty on my Burger King Whopper and the cow or cows it had once been, or between the crisp, golden, expertly and scientifically flavored fleshy bits of the mountain of Chicken McNuggets that I plowed through with abandon over the years and real, living chickens. It wasn’t a matter of callous disregard, it was one of utter ignorance, a profound inability not only to connect the dots but to even see that there were dots to connect.

...

Source: Salon.com, Nov 28, 2015

Thank you for posting this article. 

Eventually I think this disconnect will fade as we become more aware of what is actually going on. Still, there is choice, and for those who think this is oaky—to slaughter animals for food—it is of course their prerogative to do so. 

Hail Seitan!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeZlih4DDNg

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lol Monica  

Monica, I remember when you first posted the Vegan Black Metal Chef pad Thai video, and we were all laughing our butts off. My stomach hurt I laughed so hard watching it. I noticed there are over 2 million views. I hope some new members will enjoy this crazy funny video.

Eating lower on the food chain has many benefits, both physically and energetically.

The below is from Explorit Science Center science facts

Quote:Do biological processes rely upon a supply of energy?

Yes. Both plants and animals are absolutely dependent upon energy for growth and movement and for the maintenance of basic function and structure. If energy intake drops below the amount required for maintenance, an organism consumes its own energy stores until those are exhausted and the organism dies.

Does all life on Earth depend upon radiant energy from the Sun?

With the exception of certain bacteria and algae which get their energy by the oxidation of inorganic compounds, and the animals that get their energy from these particular bacteria and algae, all life on Earth depends on radiant energy from the Sun.

How is solar (radiant) energy made available to living organisms?

Animals cannot use radiant energy but plants can. Chlorophyll molecules in green plants and algae absorb radiant energy (sunlight) and use this energy in the manufacture of glucose (a sugar). The radiant energy is now stored in the glucose molecule as chemical energy and is available to the plant for its growth and to animals when they eat plants.

Are plants the only source of energy for animal life?

Yes. Some animals (herbivores or vegetarians) eat plants and derive their energy from the chemical energy stored in the plants' complex carbohydrate molecules. Other animals (predators and scavengers) eat animals, or the remains of animals, who have eaten plants; so, ultimately all animal energy is derived from the radiant energy absorbed by chlorophyll molecules in green plants.

What is a food chain, and what does a food chain have to do with energy?

A food chain has everything to do with energy. It is a term used by ecologists for the transfer of energy from its usable source in plants (see Day 25) through a sequence of living organisms. This sequence starts with a plant-eating animal which is the source of food for the animal(s) above it in the food chain. 
a) Grasses manufacture complex carbohydrate molecules using solar energy (sunlight);
b) herbivorous animals eat plants in order to obtain that food energy; and 
c) carnivorous animals eat herbivores for their food energy.

Perhaps i am being a little rude here, but hasn't the vegan/vegetarian debate been discussed already? Hasn't everything been said that could be said on the subject in relation to the Law of One? I am sure if anyone was interested in it they could simply look through the large amount of posts already on the forums. We already have one marked permanently.

(12-09-2015, 02:41 PM)Matt1 Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps i am being a little rude here, but hasn't the vegan/vegetarian debate been discussed already? Hasn't everything been said that could be said on the subject in relation to the Law of One? I am sure if anyone was interested in it they could simply look through the large amount of posts already on the forums. We already have one marked permanently.

True, a lot has already been said and True, people could read the old threads. But, new people tend to read the new threads, and often miss the old threads. (As evidenced by new threads popping up all the time, on the same topics that were previously covered! It happens a lot.)

And, there continues to be new information added. For example, the recent United Nations declaration that red meat causes cancer, and is as potent a carcinogen as cigarettes. That's very recent.

Quote:26 October 2015 – The cancer research arm of the World Health Organization (WHO) has determined that the consumption of processed meats like hotdogs, ham, sausages and meat-based sauces causes colorectal cancer, while eating red meat like beef, pork and lamb is “probably carcinogenic to humans.”

New UN report links processed meats to cancer in humans; red meat also likely to cause the disease

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Quotes from pig slaughterhouse workers across the country ranging in title from worker, to foreman, to supervisor, to USDA employee..... Something to consider when planning your Christmas dinner:
“We get them in from Canada. I’ve seen as many as sixty dead ones off a truck.”
“In the wintertime there are always hogs stuck to the sides and floors of the trucks. They go in there with wires or knives and just cut or pry the hogs loose. The skin pulls right off. These hogs were alive when we did this.”
“They freeze to that steel railing. They’re still alive, and they’ll hook a cable on it and pull it out, maybe pull a leg off.”
“The preferred method of handling a cripple is to beat him to death with a lead pipe before he gets into the chute. It’s called ‘piping.’ All the drivers use pipes to kills hogs that can’t go through the chutes.”
“Two or three drivers chase the hogs up [the chutes]. They prod them a lot because the hogs don’t want to go. When hogs smell blood, they don’t want to go.”
“These hogs are raised in confinement and the trip through the plant is probably a half-mile long. They’ve never walked like that in their lives.”
“Hogs get stressed out pretty easy. If you prod them too much they have heart attacks. If you get a hog in the chute that’s had the s*** prodded out of him and has a heart attack or refuses to move, you take a meat hook and hook it into his bunghole. You try to do this by clipping the hipbone. Then you drag him backwards. You’re dragging these hogs alive, and a lot of times the meat hook rips out of the bunghole. I’ve seem hams-thighs-completely ripped open. I’ve also seen intestines come out. If the hog collapses near the front of the chute, you shove the meat hook into his cheek and drag him forward.”
“I’ve seen hogs beaten, whipped, kicked in the head to get them up to the restrainer (restricts pigs on their sides, and transports them to the stun operator). I’ve seen hog drivers take their prod and shove it up the hog’s ass to get them to move.”
“If you get a hog that refuses to go in the chutes and is stopping production, you beat him to death. Then push him off to the side and hang him up later.”
“If a hog don’t want to go up to the restrainer and you don’t have a pipe handy, you shove the [electric] prod in his eye. And you hold it in his eye. And that changes his attitude.”
“You’re under all this stress, all this pressure. And it really sounds mean but, I’ve taken prods and stuck them in their eyes and held them there.”
Hogs are stunned electrically rather than mechanically; electrodes held to the pig’s head and back send a three-second jolt of current through its body; knocking the animal out. If the animal was excessively prodded on its way to the stunner, or if the stun operator improperly applied the electrodes, the jolt would burst capillaries in the hog’s back making the meat look bruised or bloody, thus lowering its value.
“Management was constantly complaining to us about blown loins. They claimed that when the stunner voltage was set too high it tore up the meat. The supervisors always wanted it on low stun no matter what size hogs we were stunning. Then when you got big sows and boars in the restrainer, the stunner wouldn’t work at all.”
Adequately stunned or not, the hogs then slide down onto a conveyor table where a shackler wraps a shackle around one of the hind legs and hoists the animal up onto the moving chain.
“The blood collection tank filled up so fast, when they hogs came through the stick pit, their whole heads might be hanging in the blood…. I can remember conscious hogs blowing bubbles in the blood collection tanks – it was sickening.”
“I yelled so much about having to stick (severe the major blood vessels leading to and from the animal’s heart) live hogs, the stun operator would double-stun them. I’d watch him hitting them two and three times, and still they’d come through conscious. I’ve seen hogs stunned up to twelve times…. It’s amazing the willpower these animals have.”
“I was sticking about nine hundred hogs an hour, which wouldn’t be that hard if they were stunned right. But when most of them are fully conscious, kicking and biting at you, it’s like…”
“They’d say, ‘That’s just muscle reaction, nerves. It’s not alive.’ I’d say, ‘Then why’s the damn hog trying to BITE me? Just how stupid do you think I am?”
“It got to the point where if I had a live hog come at me and I had time, I’d take a lead pipe and beat if over the head until it was knocked out enough for me to stick it. When the supervisor would complain about cracked skulls I’d say, ‘Look, I’m just trying to keep my own skull from being busted’.”
“When that hog comes at me alive, I don’t care where I him – whether I hit him high or I hit him low. I just poke a hole in him and get out as fast as I can. That’s all that’s required of me. I don’t care if he bleeds good or not.”
“The worst thing, worse than the physical danger, is the emotional toll. If you work in that stick pit for any period of time, you develop an attitude that lets you kill things, but doesn’t let you care. You may look a hog in the eye that’s walking around down in the blood pit with you and think, God, that really isn’t a bad looking animal. You may want to pet it. Pigs down on the kill floor have come up and nuzzled me like a puppy. Two minutes later I had to kill them – beat them to death with a pipe. I can’t care.”
“Down in the blood pit they say that the smell of blood makes you aggressive. And it does. You get an attitude that if that hog kicks me, I’m going to get even. You’re already going to kill the hog, but that’s not enough. It has to suffer. When you get a live one you think, Oh good, I’m going to beat this sucker.”
“After a while you become desensitized. And as far as animals go, they’re a lower life-form. They’re maybe one step above a maggot.”
“Because of the line speed, the sticker only gets one chance to make a good stick hole, or the hog bleeds real slow. The sticker doesn’t have time to go digging around for arteries.”
“After they left me, the hogs would go up a hundred-foot ramp to a tank where they’re dunked in 140 degree water. That’s to scald their hair off. There’s no way these animals can bleed out in the few minutes it takes to get up the ramp. By the time they hit the scalding tank, they’re still fully conscious and squealing. Happens all the time.”
“These hogs get up to the scalding tank, hit the water and start screaming and kicking… it was obvious what was going on because I could hear them screaming. Sooner or later they drown. There’s a rotating arm that pushes them under, no chance for them to get out. I’m not sure if they burn to death before they drown, but it takes them a couple of minutes to stop thrashing.”
“What the public sees is fancy labels, but those of us inside the walls can tell the truth about what the vast majority have never seen.”
Please think about what these non-human animals and human workers had to go through before you buy, cook, or eat a ‘Christmas ham’ this holiday.

This is going on, every single minute of every single day, to the tune of billions of sentient beings. Scalded and burned alive. Raped. Literally tortured. It is the same with chickens, cows, pigs, turkeys...all farmed animals. Factory farms are the worst, but ALL of the meat/dairy industry slaughters innocent, sentient beings against their will, and ALL involve unnecessary suffering. There is No such thing as 'humane' meat. That is a myth, as explained by former ranchers. (See also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_dWPwjs6dA)

YOU have the power to stop this! It's a simple case of demand and supply. The meat/dairy industry is the single biggest factor that is holding our planet back. All this talk about the shift to 4D is just lip service, when self-professed 'Wanderers' are still contributing to this atrocity. To talk about love/light and the shift to 4D is absurd, while contributing to the enslavement, torture, and killing of sentient beings.

...

Yea because if we suddenly stopped eating meat, Gaia herself would spring up and happily welcome us into 4th density and we'd all ascend into this utopian existence of hippy love.

The shift has never been physical in nature. This planet is already in 4th density and there's an entire world happening right here that we cannot see and will not see despite people's most fervent desire to be part of it.

(12-24-2015, 02:08 PM)Monica Wrote: [ -> ]This is going on, every single minute of every single day, to the tune of billions of sentient beings. Scalded and burned alive. Raped. Literally tortured. It is the same with chickens, cows, pigs, turkeys...all farmed animals. Factory farms are the worst, but ALL of the meat/dairy industry slaughters innocent, sentient beings against their will, and ALL involve unnecessary suffering. There is No such thing as 'humane' meat. That is a myth, as explained by former ranchers. (See also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_dWPwjs6dA)

YOU have the power to stop this! It's a simple case of demand and supply. The meat/dairy industry is the single biggest factor that is holding our planet back. All this talk about the shift to 4D is just lip service, when self-professed 'Wanderers' are still contributing to this atrocity. To talk about love/light and the shift to 4D is absurd, while contributing to the enslavement, torture, and killing of sentient beings.

...

What I disagree with,

Victims and will: Where you see victims and experiences against their will, I see sovereign beings with free will as the prime distortion of their experience.

Unnecessarily suffering: I'm not sure you grasp the concept of Intelligent Infinity or Infinite Intelligence, why not say that every experiences you dislike are unnecessary? No seriously.. who the hell cares about what it feels like to be rock for ages and ages, suffering at least has a deeper meaning and when transmuted gives birth to a light brighter than the one that did not know suffering.

...

I'm sure there's been many meat eaters who have seen love, beauty and honor in those who are vegan. On the other side I have seen never you, despite expressing a desire to understand other-selves, show signs of perceiving any love/light in the ways of others that are unlike yours. Every channeled entity mainly say to view yourself in others, to open yourself to perceiving the love/light beneath each things including those you perceive as without love, to understand that above the illusion everything is bound in unity.

...

My last post will be the last one before the mods deactivate my account, which I hope is soon.

(12-24-2015, 06:39 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]What I disagree with,

Victims and will: Where you see victims and experiences against their will, I see sovereign beings with free will as the prime distortion of their experience.

Unnecessarily suffering: I'm not sure you grasp the concept of Intelligent Infinity or Infinite Intelligence, why not say that every experiences you dislike are unnecessary? No seriously.. who the hell cares about what it feels like to be rock for ages and ages, suffering at least has a deeper meaning and when transmuted gives birth to a light brighter than the one that did not know suffering.

I will try 1 last time to simplify it for you, but after this, I won't be around, so if you still don't get it, well, there's nothing else I can do or say.

From the perspective of Intelligent Infinity, or even from the Higher Self, there is always meaning in everything, including suffering.

From the perspective of the entity in the density of Choice, choice matters.

Understanding lies in the resolution of paradox. Both are true. It has been said that I don't believe in Oneness. That is completely wrong. Of course I do. But Oneness includes both distortion and the undistorted. ALL is One, including distortion, including the Density of Choice. To negate the importance of choice is to negate Oneness. To negate distortion is to negate the undistorted.

One can acknowledge that there is a purpose to animals being victims, while, at the same time, choosing to not participate in it. That's what Choice is all about. That's what the polarities are all about. You've stated that you disagree with Ra's concepts of polarities. You are free to believe as you wish. But please quit twisting my words and presuming to understand what I believe, when you don't even have the same foundation and don't even accept what I consider to be core concepts of the Law of One.

(12-24-2015, 06:39 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sure there's been many meat eaters who have seen love, beauty and honor in those who are vegan. On the other side I have seen never you, despite expressing a desire to understand other-selves, show signs of perceiving any love/light in the ways of others that are unlike yours. Every channeled entity mainly say to view yourself in others, to open yourself to perceiving the love/light beneath each things including those you perceive as without love, to understand that above the illusion everything is bound in unity.

Right. In the 7 (or was it 8?) years that I've been here, I've never ever shown any love/light to anyone who disagreed with me. Got it. In fact, that's why they asked me to be mod - because I was such a controlling, strict disciplinarian, and that's exactly what they needed. I never showed any love/light to anyone, never once during the years I moderated.

I also 'get' that the meat-eaters will continue to perceive me as controlling and judgmental, until I pat them on the back and say "there, there...it's ok to eat meat...it's your free will choice to support the suffering of animals and that's OK." It won't ever matter what I do or say, or how much love/light I show, or how 'nice' I am. Diana, Pablisimo and I learned that the hard way. We tried sooooooo hard; we really did. None of that mattered. As long as we remain firm in our convictions, nothing we can say or do will never be good enough. The only thing that will make them feel better is reassurance that what they're doing is ok.

You probably won't believe this, but I actually feel immense compassion for those who are so dependent on the approval of others, that they continue to lash out at them, until they get what they want - reassurance and an assuaging of their conscience.

They'll have to look elsewhere because they won't get it from me.

...

(12-24-2015, 07:31 PM)Monica Wrote: [ -> ]...

My last post will be the last one before the mods deactivate my account, which I hope is soon.

(12-24-2015, 06:39 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]What I disagree with,

Victims and will: Where you see victims and experiences against their will, I see sovereign beings with free will as the prime distortion of their experience.

Unnecessarily suffering: I'm not sure you grasp the concept of Intelligent Infinity or Infinite Intelligence, why not say that every experiences you dislike are unnecessary? No seriously.. who the hell cares about what it feels like to be rock for ages and ages, suffering at least has a deeper meaning and when transmuted gives birth to a light brighter than the one that did not know suffering.

I will try 1 last time to simplify it for you, but after this, I won't be around, so if you still don't get it, well, there's nothing else I can do or say.

From the perspective of Intelligent Infinity, or even from the Higher Self, there is always meaning in everything, including suffering.

From the perspective of the entity in the density of Choice, choice matters.

Understanding lies in the resolution of paradox. Both are true. It has been said that I don't believe in Oneness. That is completely wrong. Of course I do. But Oneness includes both distortion and the undistorted. ALL is One, including distortion, including the Density of Choice. To negate the importance of choice is to negate Oneness. To negate distortion is to negate the undistorted.

One can acknowledge that there is a purpose to animals being victims, while, at the same time, choosing to not participate in it. That's what Choice is all about. That's what the polarities are all about. You've stated that you disagree with Ra's concepts of polarities. You are free to believe as you wish. But please quit twisting my words and presuming to understand what I believe, when you don't even have the same foundation and don't even accept what I consider to be core concepts of the Law of One.

Well I do not disagree with Ra's concepts of polarities but instead come to different conclusions than your owns. I have used multiple Ra quotes to support that it is possible for one to eat meat in positive polarity. Quotes that support that polarity is love as known to the heart and is different and unique to each. It is in a way the purpose of many-ness, and we are all called to be of service in different ways. Not so surprisingly, members have different reasons from one to another to eat meat.

(12-24-2015, 07:31 PM)Monica Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-24-2015, 06:39 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sure there's been many meat eaters who have seen love, beauty and honor in those who are vegan. On the other side I have seen never you, despite expressing a desire to understand other-selves, show signs of perceiving any love/light in the ways of others that are unlike yours. Every channeled entity mainly say to view yourself in others, to open yourself to perceiving the love/light beneath each things including those you perceive as without love, to understand that above the illusion everything is bound in unity.

Right. In the 7 (or was it 8?) years that I've been here, I've never ever shown any love/light to anyone who disagreed with me. Got it. In fact, that's why they asked me to be mod - because I was such a controlling, strict disciplinarian, and that's exactly what they needed. I never showed any love/light to anyone, never once during the years I moderated.

I'm not talking about your general perception of everyone, I'm talking about the very act of meat eating. Have you perceived as love and light this act being done by any individual from this forum?

(12-24-2015, 07:31 PM)Monica Wrote: [ -> ]I also 'get' that the meat-eaters will continue to perceive me as controlling and judgmental, until I pat them on the back and say "there, there...it's ok to eat meat...it's your free will choice to support the suffering of animals and that's OK." It won't ever matter what I do or say, or how much love/light I show, or how 'nice' I am. Diana, Pablisimo and I learned that the hard way. We tried sooooooo hard; we really did. None of that mattered. As long as we remain firm in our convictions, nothing we can say or do will never be good enough. The only thing that will make them feel better is reassurance that what they're doing is ok.

You probably won't believe this, but I actually feel immense compassion for those who are so dependent on the approval of others, that they continue to lash out at them, until they get what they want - reassurance and an assuaging of their conscience.

They'll have to look elsewhere because they won't get it from me.

...

Well I do believe what you do to be effective and a good mirror, but I have not found these threads to be much challenging to myself. Still does not mean I can't have an interest in them, appreciate where they lead and be open to their potential to bring change within myself.

(12-24-2015, 08:26 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not talking about your general perception of everyone, I'm talking about the very act of meat eating. Have you perceived as love and light this act being done by any individual from this forum?

Loving others despite what they do, isn't the same as perceiving their actions as 'loving' in the STO sense. Ultimately, all is love. But there are distortions; specifically, here in Density of Choice, distortions pertaining to STS/STO. Actions based on serving self, to the exclusion of, or at the expense of, the free will of other-selves, are, by definition, inherently STS. Are they based in love? STS actions are based in love as well. Ultimately, STS actions serve the Creator as well.

...

After reading this sentence from you : Understanding lies in the resolution of paradox. Both are true. It has been said that I don't believe in Oneness. That is completely wrong. Of course I do. But Oneness includes both distortion and the undistorted. ALL is One, including distortion, including the Density of Choice. To negate the importance of choice is to negate Oneness. To negate distortion is to negate the undistorted.


I'm not sure I have grasped your idea about oneness. Do you believe that everything is one including eating meat or do you believe that oneness is something that must be reached with a certain level of polarity like polarizing over not eating meat?

(12-24-2015, 09:01 PM)Monica Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-24-2015, 08:26 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not talking about your general perception of everyone, I'm talking about the very act of meat eating. Have you perceived as love and light this act being done by any individual from this forum?

Loving others despite what they do, isn't the same as perceiving their actions as 'loving' in the STO sense. Ultimately, all is love. But there are distortions; specifically, here in Density of Choice, distortions pertaining to STS/STO. Actions based on serving self, to the exclusion of, or at the expense of, the free will of other-selves, are, by definition, inherently STS. Are they based in love? STS actions are based in love as well. Ultimately, STS actions serve the Creator as well.

...

Surely but the choices of others are the exact same you'd be making as them.

(12-24-2015, 10:51 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]Surely but the choices of others are the exact same you'd be making as them.

Of course. Each other entity is you, is me, is all of us, in different timelines, because of different choices. But that doesn't negate the importance of choice now, by each of us. Else, what would be the point of the illusion? Just because it's an illusion doesn't mean it isn't important, or that it's meaningless.

You and others seem to indicate that choice cannot coexist with Oneness. But it does. There are 78 references to the word choice in the Law of One.

You asked me whether I can see love in the person eating meat. A more appropriate question might be whether I can love the person eating meat. Of course I can and I do. Most of the population eats meat so if vegans couldn't love meat-eaters we'd be very lonely indeed. Loving the person who eats meat isn't the same as perceiving their actions as loving. Nor is it even relevant, for it isn't our place to judge the motivations of another. This is why I have steadfastly refused to evaluate anyone's personal level of polarity, despite being asked to do so repeatedly. It isn't my place to do that and it's impossible anyway.

I can only speak in concepts, in generalities, and with the use of analogies. Everyone can take from my words as they wish, just as we all take from everyone's words, and perceive according to our biases.

The man who kills an intruder out of necessity to protect his family has different motivations and polarizing potential than the man who enjoys killing the intruder for the thrill of bloodlust, while saying he did it to protect his family only as an excuse.

Likewise:

The Native American killing the weakest deer in the herd, out of necessity to survive and feed his family, has different motivations, and correspondingly different polarizing potential, in his meat-eating than the modern person who is well aware of the suffering of farm animals, is well aware of the disastrous effects of the meat-dairy industry on his family's health and on the environment, but chooses to eat it and serve it to his family anyway, because he likes the taste of bacon.

The illiterate mother on welfare who buys meat, milk and white bread for her children with her food stamps because she doesn't know any better has different motivations and polarizing potential than the educated, computer-savvy woman who is well aware of the suffering of farm animals, is well aware of the disastrous effects of the meat-dairy industry on her family's health and on the environment, but chooses to eat it and serve it to her family anyway, because she's too lazy to bother learning new recipes.

This isn't a conversation between illiterates. None here is ignorant. Everyone here is computer savvy and knows how to use Google. Some may find it easier than others to transition. Obviously, someone who is independent has an easier time changing their diet/lifestyle than a teenager still dependent on his/her parents, or someone on welfare. But generally, it's far cheaper to eat vegan than to eat meat, so even cost really isn't a factor. It does, however, require the choice to CARE, and the choice to change.

I don't judge any of you. And for the record, I actually do love and forgive all of you, regardless of what you may think. I can simultaneously do that and still stand firm in my assertion that to knowingly choose to support the needless suffering of sentient beings who have pain receptors, is an inherently STS action.

If you (any of you) feel threatened or judged, that is coming from within yourself, Not from me. Again I say: If you were truly comfortable with your choice, it wouldn't matter what I or anyone else says or thinks, just as it would be impossible to make me feel guilty for eating a tomato, as was demonstrated in the Tomatoes are STS thread.

It is a psychological defense mechanism to lash out at the one who triggers one's conscience. I understand that and forgive all of you. I really do. Peace and Blessings to all.      

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(12-24-2015, 11:29 PM)Monica Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-24-2015, 10:51 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]Surely but the choices of others are the exact same you'd be making as them.

Of course. Each other entity is you, is me, is all of us, in different timelines, because of different choices. But that doesn't negate the importance of choice now, by each of us. Else, what would be the point of the illusion? Just because it's an illusion doesn't mean it isn't important, or that it's meaningless.

You and others seem to indicate that choice cannot coexist with Oneness. But it does. There are 78 references to the word choice in the Law of One.

You asked me whether I can see love in the person eating meat. A more appropriate question might be whether I can love the person eating meat. Of course I can and I do. Most of the population eats meat so if vegans couldn't love meat-eaters we'd be very lonely indeed. Loving the person who eats meat isn't the same as perceiving their actions as loving. Nor is it even relevant, for it isn't our place to judge the motivations of another. This is why I have steadfastly refused to evaluate anyone's personal level of polarity, despite being asked to do so repeatedly. It isn't my place to do that and it's impossible anyway.

I can only speak in concepts, in generalities, and with the use of analogies. Everyone can take from my words as they wish, just as we all take from everyone's words, and perceive according to our biases.

The man who kills an intruder out of necessity to protect his family has different motivations and polarizing potential than the man who enjoys killing the intruder for the thrill of bloodlust, while saying he did it to protect his family only as an excuse.

Likewise:

The Native American killing the weakest deer in the herd, out of necessity to survive and feed his family, has different motivations, and correspondingly different polarizing potential, in his meat-eating than the modern person who is well aware of the suffering of farm animals, is well aware of the disastrous effects of the meat-dairy industry on his family's health and on the environment, but chooses to eat it and serve it to his family anyway, because he likes the taste of bacon.

The illiterate mother on welfare who buys meat, milk and white bread for her children with her food stamps because she doesn't know any better has different motivations and polarizing potential than the educated, computer-savvy woman who is well aware of the suffering of farm animals, is well aware of the disastrous effects of the meat-dairy industry on her family's health and on the environment, but chooses to eat it and serve it to her family anyway, because she's too lazy to bother learning new recipes.

This isn't a conversation between illiterates. None here is ignorant. Everyone here is computer savvy and knows how to use Google. Some may find it easier than others to transition. Obviously, someone who is independent has an easier time changing their diet/lifestyle than a teenager still dependent on his/her parents, or someone on welfare. But generally, it's far cheaper to eat vegan than to eat meat, so even cost really isn't a factor. It does, however, require the choice to CARE, and the choice to change.

I don't judge any of you. And for the record, I actually do love and forgive all of you, regardless of what you may think. I can simultaneously do that and still stand firm in my assertion that to knowingly choose to support the needless suffering of sentient beings who have pain receptors, is an inherently STS action.

If you (any of you) feel threatened or judged, that is coming from within yourself, Not from me. Again I say: If you were truly comfortable with your choice, it wouldn't matter what I or anyone else says or thinks, just as it would be impossible to make me feel guilty for eating a tomato, as was demonstrated in the Tomatoes are STS thread.

It is a psychological defense mechanism to lash out at the one who triggers one's conscience. I understand that and forgive all of you. I really do. Peace and Blessings to all.      

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You do realize that if I was vegan I'd still stay the exact same things except that I wouldn't categorize as a meat eater?

So we are watching a sad episode where polar bears are learning to adapt to the rise in global Temps. Ya know, swimming miles and miles just to find food because of shrinking ice.

But let's think about this for a minute. This is 3rd density. This is all an illusion. Everything that we perceive is an illusion. The suffering that we perceive relative to this density is an illusion. Global warming, starvation, strife, injustices, etc are all illusions within the confines of this density.

Therefore the 4th density version of this planet is not experiencing any of this. What they perceive may not be any of what we perceive due to the difference in vibrations.

Does this give any Solitude to the current incarnations of such sentient beings? No. But it can give you a sense of peace knowing that a truly is well and will be well within a given density and vibration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O1rHYWH8MY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niOm01dEzzI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deoNAOfkXxc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIcfrG9iIak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nvuEw9XcuU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCO4cekeDs0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP51U_QBx48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypXbQu9m2qY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCNSst-_z5c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zAFA-hamZ0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFW5gPlS...1172184855

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWWg5shNWR4

I have a current coworker who used to work in a town where everyone worked at the slaughterhouse. He said you could only be on actual pig killing (throat slitting) duties for 3 months total, it was against the law to have someone do it any longer. Of course, they just had the illegal immigrants doing it because they had no choice.

On another note, I am a vegan because I pray that one day all people will realize that baby pigs, chickens, and cows are just as cute and special as baby dolphins.

(02-19-2016, 11:25 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: [ -> ]I have a current coworker who used to work in a town where everyone worked at the slaughterhouse. He said you could only be on actual pig killing (throat slitting) duties for 3 months total, it was against the law to have someone do it any longer. Of course, they just had the illegal immigrants doing it because they had no choice.

Yes, that's sadly how it works in many places. I can only talk about Germany, but over there is a whole trafficking industry at work, just for illicit or semi-legal workers from Eastern Europe and other countries who either have no legal rights or no means to enforce them... No need to say they also have no possibility to get counselling or other mental health support once it gets too much - and it frequently does.

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(12-24-2015, 11:57 PM)Jeremy Wrote: [ -> ]So we are watching a sad episode where polar bears are learning to adapt to the rise in global Temps. Ya know,  swimming miles and miles just to find food because of shrinking ice.

But let's think about this for a minute. This is 3rd density. This is all an illusion. Everything that we perceive is an illusion. The suffering that we perceive relative to this density is an illusion. Global warming,  starvation,  strife,  injustices,  etc are all illusions within the confines of this density.

Therefore the 4th density version of this planet is not experiencing any of this. What they perceive may not be any of what we perceive due to the difference in vibrations.

Does this give any Solitude to the current incarnations of such sentient beings? No. But it can give you a sense of peace knowing that a truly is well and will be well within a given density and vibration.

And what is an illusion? What is a dream? What is real? I don't know about everything being an illusion because I think the word "illusion" is too simplistic. 

It's not okay on any level at all that humans torture other life forms. To say all is well because this is an illusion is an enormous cop-out to me. Even if it's true that this is an illusion and in higher densities suffering is seen differently, that does not negate the perception of suffering here.

Who here really wants this to continue, even if it all still is an illusion? I don't care who does what actually, but what I don't like is justifying why it's okay for animals to needlessly suffer. Just because it is POSSIBLE that in higher densities suffering isn't perceived the same way, how does that make torturing other life forms here in 3D okay?

This is not directed at you, Jeremy, or anyone in particular. I see that you were trying to offer solace. I am not here to convert anyone to vegetarian or vegan. I am here to discuss a subject close to my heart, and the argument that "all is well" on some other level is just not an argument with any substance to me.

For instance, New Agers will say that we are a spirit not a body. But we are in part a body, while we are here. We can't separate out a part we don't like or don't want to deal with. The whole shebang is the whole shebang. Some parts may be ephemeral such as the physical body, but I suspect everything is ephemeral. As in a hologram all parts contain the whole no matter how small, insignificant, or removed from the original source.

Quote:"This is the video future generations will be wishing everyone watched today."
https://t.co/h3txowAwyJ via @MercyforAnimals
   — Leonardo DiCaprio (@LeoDiCaprio) March 16, 2016

Reuters Wrote:Vegan Eating Would Slash Food's Global Warming Emissions: Study

by Reuters

By eating less meat and more fruit and vegetables, the world could prevent several million deaths per year by 2050, cut planet-warming emissions substantially, and save billions of dollars annually in healthcare costs and climate damage, researchers said.

A new study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences is the first to estimate both the health and climate change impacts of a global move towards a more plant-based diet, they said.

"We do not expect everybody to become vegan," said lead author Marco Springmann of the Oxford Martin Program on the Future of Food.

But if they did, they'd live longer and help reduce the changes that are skewing the climate.

"What we eat greatly influences our personal health and the global environment," Springmann said.

The Oxford University researchers modeled the effects of four different diets by mid-century: a 'business as usual' scenario; one that follows global guidelines including minimum amounts of fruits and vegetables and limits on red meat, sugar and total calories; a vegetarian diet; and a vegan diet.

Adopting a diet in line with the global guidelines could avert 5.1 million deaths per year by 2050, while 8.1 million fewer people would die in a world of vegans who do not consume animal products, including eggs and milk.

When it comes to climate change, following dietary recommendations would cut food-related emissions by 29 percent, adopting vegetarian diets would cut them by 63 percent and vegan diets by 70 percent.

Dietary shifts could produce savings of $700 billion to $1 trillion per year on healthcare, unpaid care and lost working days, while the economic benefit of reduced greenhouse gas emissions could be as much as $570 billion, the study found.

The researchers found that three-quarters of all benefits would occur in developing countries, although the per capita impacts of dietary change would be greatest in developed nations, due to higher rates of meat consumption and obesity.

The economic value of health improvements could be comparable with, and possibly larger than, the value of the prevented damage from climate change, they added.

"The value of those benefits makes a strong case for increased public and private spending on programs aimed to achieve healthier and more environmentally sustainable diets," Springmann said.

The study looked at regional differences which could be used to identify the most suitable interventions for food production and consumption, Springmann said.

For example, lower red meat consumption would have the biggest effect in East Asia, the West and Latin America, while boosting fruit and vegetable intake was found to be the largest factor in cutting deaths in South Asia and sub-Saharan Africa.

Lower calorie intake, leading to fewer overweight people, would play a key role in improving health in the Eastern Mediterranean, Latin America and Western nations, the study said.

But it will not be easy. To achieve a diet that sticks to common guidelines would require a 25 percent increase in the number of fruits and vegetables eaten globally, and a 56 percent cut in red meat.

Overall, humans would need to consume 15 percent fewer calories, it said.

"We do not expect everybody to become vegan," Springmann added. "But climate change impacts of the food system will be hard to tackle and likely require more than just technological changes. Adopting healthier and more environmentally sustainable diets can be a large step in the right direction."

Source: NBC News, Mar 22 2016

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